What's Your Fav' ?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hi all! You may have noticed I haven't been around as much. Well, that's due to some technical issues with the computer, as well as some family issues. I largely use my phone to browse the forums at the moment... making it rather tedious to post large amounts of text.

But anyway, this topic has come up before I am sure, but I am genuinely curious as to what our current members think. Having worked with many types of garters both as adults and babies, I have definitely formed opinions on which ones I like the most and which ones I do not recommend regardless of their beauty. *cough, california redsideds are evil, cough*.

Think about the species you have worked with and what you enjoy most about them. Sure, I love all of them but I have developed a clear favorite... and it just might surprise you!

Thamnophis marcianus.

Yep. That's right. What is wrong with me?! The most common snake in the trade? Really?! Yes. definitely. You might be wondering why that is. I do too at times, until I go into my snakeroom and remind myself why. For one, they just plain thrive. Not saying others don't, cause we all know many species do, but you have gotta hand it to the checkereds, you have to try really hard to kill one! They will eat just about anything. Heck, I am pretty sure some of mine would eat pizza if I offered it with tongs.

My favorite thing about a checkered is of course, they way they look. No, I am not talking just about your run of the mill dirt colored snake with some black dots scattered about. But if you get a really good looking checkered, in my opinion, it's impossible to beat. I just love a lime green checkered with thick, black, perfectly square checkers, thick labials, and rich red eyes. But there are other variants that I love equally that are hard to come by (but mark my word I will change that). One of my males is mustard yellow. A female that someone recently caught for me and brought to hamburg is an extremely pale tan/cream color, with very faded checkers and an equally pale head. And of course, if you are into morphs, there are are few exciting variants of checkereds, my favorite of course, being pastel.

Between their stunning looks, their ability to thrive and tolerate beginner's mistakes even as babies, (meaning I am very comfortable selling babies) their willingness to eat even pizza (kidding), and their sweet temperment, for me, it will always be marcianus.

So now it's your turn. What's your favorite garter? And no, I am not talking about just your favorite -looking- snake, I mean, as a species/subspecies, on a whole. So if you haven't kept it before, don't call it a favorite. I used to think cali- redsideds were my favorite until I started keeping them. Now they might be a least favorite...even the prettiest snake can ruin it's reputation with it's personality! and while I went through a phase where I was heavily into morphs, I have come back to my roots and now focus on normals and naturally occurring variants of them. I like morphs, but racing to produce the latest and greatest morph does nothing for me, and to be honest, I really don't like albino's too much. Unless they are T positive. I like my snakes with melanin!

[guidofatherof5]

My favorite would have to be T.s.parietalis(Red Sided garter snake)..........:eek:Just kidding. They are a great snake but as for me it's........
T.radix(Plains garter snake),
just like having an old dog. They get comfortable and seem to look forward to constant interaction.
I've seen behavior that borders on intelligence. I love all the garter snakes I keep but mark me down as a radix fanatic;)

[Mommy2many]

When it comes to garters, of course it is the Thamnophis sirtalis (Our Easterns) My babies are so curious, it never ceases to amaze me!

But one of the cutest snakies I have ever seen are the Dekayi:D

[ConcinusMan]

This girl pictured, and just about any large female T.s. concinnus is my favorite, of course! For the same reasons Steve mentioned. Well stated. That aberrant one I'll be sending to you Shannon, is the same way. It's going to sting a little to give her up!

My fav has always been a big girl concinnus.

This girl is so smart, tame, and loveable. Big too!

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5459/lastofthebabies060mediu.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7102/dscn0476medium.jpg

[indigoman]

I only have T. marcianus at the time 27 so i guess i am a little biased. I've only had eastern's before which started my love of the species. The N.Va. reptile expo i went to only had this species available but it's turned into a blessing. It was nice to read your comments Shannon. I'am waiting to see what your breeding will bring this year!

[drache]

oh Shannon - you don't make it easy
I really do love my marcis, my radix are wonderful, both my concinnus are really sweet snakes, that vagrans is a little slithering charmer, and you know how much I love Thing, my parietalis, as well as her beau. The other parietalis I used to have was a bit like a supersize cali with muscle though, so I don't know about parietalis in general.
My absolute favourite has got to be T.s.sirtalis. I love the variety, the size, and their disposition. I've yet to meet one with an unpleasant temperament, and they're certainly easy to feed. My Sammy once tried swallowing a shoe - really true - and there was no reason for her to be unreasonably hungry. No idea whether it was the leather or whether my friend had stepped on some food traces on the side-walk (pizza?)

[Eddie]

My favorites as far as keeping goes has got to be the Florida blues. They eat pinkies at birth! You gotta love that. They also grow fast and huge. I have had a gravid female at 9 months old! They also throw huge litters and you don't really have to do any hibernating. Just cool them down to 60 degrees for 1 month and you are good to go. My favorite as far as looks go would be the melanistic eastern so I am going to breed my male albino Florida blue to my female melanistic and see what happens.
Wish me luck!
Ed

[kibakiba]

My favourites are ordinoides and I really do love my concinnus. My ordinoides are silly and sweet, they also aren't that big. My concinnus are really quirky little snakes, but I love them so much.

[gregmonsta]

It's parietalis for me :D. Full of confidence from my experience.

[MasSalvaje]

It is a toss up for me. I have always loved T e. vagrans because of their strength, feeding response, variety of colors and patterns, as well as their hardiness; that said I have fallen in love with T. s. similis as well. I think it is because they remind me a lot of a T. e. vagrans with some cool blue and green colors thrown in.

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

It is a toss up for me. I have always loved T e. vagrans because of their strength, feeding response, variety of colors and patterns, as well as their hardiness; that said I have fallen in love with T. s. similis as well. I think it is because they remind me a lot of a T. e. vagrans with some cool blue and green colors thrown in.

-Thomas

No fence straddling here:D

[MasSalvaje]

No fence straddling here:D

Fine fine, hmmm.......... I will have to go with T. e. vagrans for their calm, yet confident, disposition at all life stages. It can take awhile for T. s. similis to calm down when they are young.

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

Now see, that wasn't so hard.:D
Maybe it was but thanks anyway.:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

tough one for me....love them all.... I guess parietalis would be one of my faves, along with vagrans

[Stefan-A]

Wrote a response last night. 134 words. Couldn't be bothered to post it. Saved it, though. Can't be bothered to copy-paste it. The short version is: T. e. vagrans.

[Spankenstyne]

While I love 'em all if I have to pick just one, it's also my Checkereds. Tough to beat a nice clean "wild type" and the pastels are amazing in person. I'm not a big morph guy but even the albinos look great as adults. Mine have been great for demos (very calm and curious) and as mentioned are eating machines.

[wolfpacksved]

radix

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

radix

Tastes like chicken! ;)

[infernalis]

Evil Infernalis all the way. The feistier the better.

http://www.thamnophis.us/cherry/infernalis.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.us/cherry/infernalis2.jpg

[EasternGirl]

I only have experience with my T.s.sirtalis girls...but as I have said before, my experience has only been positive...never have been bit...they never musk...have only been pooped on once! They have a great personality...curious, playful...a bit skiddish...but friendly. Cutest little faces too!

[d_virginiana]

I've gotta say Florida Blue sirtalis :) Sure I like all the other eastern morphs I've seen and handled, but the blues seem to get bigger, stronger, and have more personality when you handle them (tame or wild) than a lot of the designer morphs. Maybe because most blues you encounter are usually only a generation or two removed from a wild population?

[guidofatherof5]

I only have experience with my T.s.sirtalis girls...but as I have said before, my experience has only been positive...never have been bit...they never musk...have only been pooped on once! They have a great personality...curious, playful...a bit skiddish...but friendly. Cutest little faces too!

You've got it bad Marnie but that's a good thing. ;)

[EasternGirl]

You and your radixes, me and my easterns! :eek:

[guidofatherof5]

You and your radixes, me and my easterns! :eek:

Indeed ;)

[PINJOHN]

for me its the eastern and as i'v said before nostalgia plays a large part for me and perversely i don't have a single one at the moment as they seem to be in short supply over here,
it may be not so acceptable to have wild caught snakes shipped in large numbers anymore BUT i cant help remembering the excitement when spring rolled around and i would head off to the pet shop gaze at the tanks full of eastern,s and try to find a color/pattern that i didnt already have, so much variation it was unbelievable

[PINJOHN]

My favorite as far as looks go would be the melanistic eastern so I am going to breed my male albino Florida blue to my female melanistic and see what happens.
Wish me luck!

perhaps not the best idea you have ever had :eek:

[infernalis]

for me its the eastern and as i'v said before nostalgia plays a large part for me and perversely i don't have a single one at the moment as they seem to be in short supply over here,
it may be not so acceptable to have wild caught snakes shipped in large numbers anymore BUT i cant help remembering the excitement when spring rolled around and i would head off to the pet shop gaze at the tanks full of eastern,s and try to find a color/pattern that i didnt already have, so much variation it was unbelievable

That's what makes herping out back so exciting for me John. Eastern garters are the only species to roam my land, and they all have so much variety in not only colour, but pattern & shades of black.

[PINJOHN]

That's what makes herping out back so exciting for me John. Eastern garters are the only species to roam my land, and they all have so much variety in not only colour, but pattern & shades of black.

new York is on my visiting list for 2013 i am hoping you are not the type who cant take a HINT ;)

[infernalis]

new York is on my visiting list for 2013 i am hoping you are not the type who cant take a HINT ;)

I live 20 miles from a small regional airport with shuttles to/from the big apple, so picking you up at the airport is no problem.

[chris-uk]

With a limited frame of reference, my favourite is the Cuitzeo. I love that they're almost completely black, and when you show pictures to non-snake people and point out how the tail has evolved to help them catch fish... It's something non-snake people can understand and gives them an idea about how clever garters are.

[Thamnophis]

Difficult to answer this question!
My T. s. pickeringii and T. s. dorsalis get my full attention at this moment, but my most favorite is...

My San Francisco Garter Snakes...

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/general-talk/3299d1321885004-whats-your-fav-twosnakes.jpg

3299

[infernalis]

Fons!! how nice to see you here today.

[guidofatherof5]

Difficult to answer this question!
My T. s. pickeringii and T. s. dorsalis get my full attention at this moment, but my most favorite is...

My San Francisco Garter Snakes...

3299

I must say this is one of the most beautiful photos I've ever seen of the S.F.
Should be on a poster or billboard.

[EasternGirl]

With regard to what John and Wayne were saying about easterns and color variation...you know it's interesting, because I don't see a lot of variation in color in the easterns here where I am...at least not in my immediate environment. Now, mind you, I am new to herping, and like I said before, I have not ventured beyond my own neighborhood much. However, I have come upon quite a few garters just in my backyard alone over the years and they all seem to have the same coloring and patterns...either the brownish/almost checkered pattern of my Selena or the brownish/less checkered more striped pattern of Cee Cee or a bit of a greenish hue. I have heard of black garters around here...but we also have black snakes and I have not seen a black garter...I have argued a guess that people claiming to have seen a black garter may actually have been looking at a black snake.


Btw...how do I do that thing where I quote someone before I post???

[chris-uk]

Btw...how do I do that thing where I quote someone before I post???

At the bottom of the post you want to quote, click the "Reply With Quote" button. It sticks the quote in the quick reply box.

[RedSidedSPR]

Parietalis (red sided) and concinnus (red spotted) honestly can't really choose anymore. If i had to though, it'd be the red sided garter snake.


Heck, I am pretty sure some of mine would eat pizza if I offered it with tongs.

I can back that up.

[EasternGirl]

At the bottom of the post you want to quote, click the "Reply With Quote" button. It sticks the quote in the quick reply box.

It worked! Thanks, Chris...

Yes, Thamnophis...beautiful pic of the SF garters!

[RedSidedSPR]

Wow didn't see those! Love that photo Fons!

[Bart]

Lol, they look so evil, yet cute. :D

[EasternGirl]

I love that pic!

[ConcinusMan]

My second favorite, right behind a big tame normal concinnus, are these. Blue anerythristic concinnus' Same snake species of course, but with awesome aberrant color. Actually looks florescent in natural daylight. They "glow". Awesome.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9320/x031large.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Dang, me too Richard. LOVE those. I still want one.

[ConcinusMan]

Shannon and Don are just going to have to get those pairs I sent them, to produce. Obviously, breeding the blue male above, to a normal, just didn't cut it. Your concinnus is one of their offspring.

[EasternGirl]

That is a beautiful snake...

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah it is. It was pretty shocking the first time I laid eyes on one. I had never seen anything so different, and knowing it's actually a concinnus just totally blew my mind the first time I found one.

[snake man12]

Got this image from californiaherps. San Francisco Garter 3355

[snakehill]

My second favorite, right behind a big tame normal concinnus, are these. Blue anerythristic concinnus' Same snake species of course, but with awesome aberrant color. Actually looks florescent in natural daylight. They "glow". Awesome.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9320/x031large.jpg Still kicking myself! :rolleyes: Green head radixes are my favorite though!

[Selkielass]

I love my Eastern, my Checkered is fun to feed, and the sweet, curious and amazingly colored snakes I met while visiting Steve really blew me away, but the Butlers garters I've found along the ditches and tracks in my neighborhood have really won me over.

They are a very active snake- out exploring and sunning first thing every morning and not at all afraid to remain out and watching curiously when people are moving about the room. Often the seem to want to be taken out to see what is going on- mature females seldom flee into vegetation and hides when approached. When held, they hold on to fingers and wrists with a nearly prehensile grip- no worries about a child dropping a Butler- they hold on to fingers with their tail until disengaged. Most I've encountered are pretty eager eaters too, so long as worms are on offer.

[EasternGirl]

Well...now while everyone knows easterns are my favs....eastern flames are my favs of the easterns (don't tell Cee Cee and Selena) and now it looks like I will be putting an order in for one with Scott for May....yipee!!!

[RedSidedSPR]

They are a favorite of mine as well.

[katach]

My favorite are my cutie T. ordinoides! They are so sweet and calm.

[EasternGirl]

I just wish my girls weren't so skiddish...but I have a feeling that has more to do with them being WC than being easterns...obviously...they are very sweet and so curious. Cee Cee can be a bit tempermental...well, she tries to be...she tries to act tough when she's being skiddish...tries to act like she's going to strike at me...but she never actually bites me. I wish they would let me just hold them and slither around on me like I know some other member's garters do...but I have to just love them as they are...

[infernalis]

Not always true, most of my mellowest ladies came right out of the back yard.

Last year I found this big gal just before the large brush hog mower would have nailed her.

She's a doll.

http://www.thamnophis.us/stump/tread2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.us/stump/tread.jpg

[kibakiba]

Like a bigger version of Mama! Mama's a big sweetie and she came from my field.

[EasternGirl]

Awww....she's a cutie Wayne...and Chantel, Mama has always sounded like a sweetie...yeah...Sammy, the little guy who passed was a big sweetie...he wasn't skiddish at all now that I think about it. Guess that's just Cee Cee and Selena...they tend to get better the more I handle them...I took them both out tonight for a while and then when I put them back in the enclosure they were very active and popping up to look at me...very interactive.

[kibakiba]

She is, even when she's scared she stays at least somewhat calm and trusts me to help when something isn't going right. By this, I mean when someone who is deathly afraid of snakes is holding her, or a small child, she'll slither toward me when she thinks they've had enough or she's had enough... ;)
I got my little brother to pet her, you could tell she was scared of him because she shied away a bit when his hand went near her, but she still allowed him to touch her. He still hates her, though... :rolleyes:

[EasternGirl]

Although Cee Cee and Selena are not big on being held...they clearly know me and respond to me and are afraid of everyone else. They come out of their hides and look at me and I talk to them all the time...they come up to me and look for me...look as though they are listening when I talk to them. If someone else in the house comes over to look at them, they jump and go back in their hide. They do not respond to anyone else like they respond to me.

[guidofatherof5]

Garter snakes definitely get comfortable with certain people.
Mine are like that. For me there is total trust. Others entering the snake room as not given that luxury.

[infernalis]

I see a diverse mix of temperaments in my collection, ranging from nasty mean to very mellow.

However I am more of a hands off kind of guy.

[RedSidedSPR]

Not always true, most of my mellowest ladies came right out of the back yard.

Last year I found this big gal just before the large brush hog mower would have nailed her.

She's a doll.

http://www.thamnophis.us/stump/tread2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.us/stump/tread.jpg


:eek:

[Bart]

:eek::eek:

[infernalis]

what am I supposed to make of the last two posts?? :eek::eek:

eek eek what?

[RedSidedSPR]

saw a big purty snake..

Speechless.

Eek.

Gasp.

Jaw-dropping.

Awesome.

[snakehill]

And HUGE!!!:p

[Bart]

HUGE!!

That's the word. How big and old is she?

[infernalis]

That's the word. How big and old is she?

I found her over a year ago mid summer, so I am clueless to age.

She is the biggest Thamnophis I have, she's just over 2 feet long and about an inch to inch 1/4 thick.

Her skull structure is very unique as you can see in the photos, she has wide "cheek bones" and deep set eyes.

She's one of my favourites.

[guidofatherof5]

She's a great looking snake.

[Bart]

Gee, I look at your photos, guys, and can't wait my Izy is a little bit bigger than she is right now. I'm guessing I'm too impatient in this particular matter. :P Now she has a mission - overgrow my housie, Amon, so I don't have to buy any guppies or mice pinks anymore. :)

[kibakiba]

I've been a bit more hands off with my snakes lately, but since I haven't been holding them, it seems everyone comes to the corner of the tank when I look at them... Kind of like everyone is saying "Pick me!" "No, me! "He went last time! Choose me!" Haha.

[guidofatherof5]

Kind of like everyone is saying "Pick me!" "No, me! "He went last time! Choose me!" Haha.

Sounds familiar.;)

[EasternGirl]

That's cute...

[katach]

That snake reminds me of the one Bill found in late August we named Kendra. She didn't like being in captivity so we released her back where she came from. Here she is next to Blade for size comparison. She is a NW with the wide jaw and deep set eyes. The general consensus is that she is old.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg832/scaled.php?server=832&filename=dsc02786h.jpg&res=medium
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg580/scaled.php?server=580&filename=dsc02793oj.jpg&res=medium

[EasternGirl]

Pretty girl...

[katach]

Yeah she was pretty cool to see. It didn't feel right keeping her though. She didn't like captivity and she was probably pretty old so we let her go home. She is on about 100 ac. of unspoiled land that belongs to a friends of ours. I will be looking there in the spring for some interesting colors for sure.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snakes.

[EasternGirl]

That's good that you let her go then. I think as snake lovers we have to know when to understand that not all wild garters need rescuing...of course you guys know I am not speaking to experienced members here. But, it is difficult even for me sometimes to not take every snake I find home thinking that it would be better off at home with me.

[infernalis]

That's good that you let her go then. I think as snake lovers we have to know when to understand that not all wild garters need rescuing...of course you guys know I am not speaking to experienced members here. But, it is difficult even for me sometimes to not take every snake I find home thinking that it would be better off at home with me.

The wisest words I have read in some time.

I myself have to fight that urge, I see pretty easterns constantly and my policy is (98% of the time) to photograph the snake as is and leave it to be on it's way.

One recent exception would be Sunny, he was doomed if left be.

[EasternGirl]

Right...Selena was trapped in a spider web in my basement in November...and Cee Cee would have met her maker via the lawn mower...plus we seem to have some shrews around here that go after all of the garters...I am still kicking myself for leaving a female that I found last spring outside...I felt that I should just let her be in her natural environment...and then a week later I found her dead of an apparent shrew bite to the neck in my basement. It's hard to know when to rescue and when not to sometimes.

[infernalis]

I simply love seeing them in their natural habitats...

http://www.thamnophis.co/herp/4.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.co/herp/5.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Beautiful pics...

[ConcinusMan]

That's good that you let her go then. I think as snake lovers we have to know when to understand that not all wild garters need rescuing...of course you guys know I am not speaking to experienced members here. But, it is difficult even for me sometimes to not take every snake I find home thinking that it would be better off at home with me.

Well said. Most cases of "rescue" are anything but. However, all the northwesterns I sent to Steve were definitely doomed. The population was clinging to existence on a small patch of habitat. It's all gone now. Got leveled by the bulldozer in the middle of winter.:mad:

I feel pretty confident that the ones I was able to save are definitely better off now.

[Finalflash50]

I have to go for the Thamnophis Sauritus. I had one years ago as a child, and I loved it. They have such clear, bright and visible stripes. They don't get too big, calling for large activity. They are a lot of fun to have... then again that's the only one I know what it's like to have up until a few weeks ago, but I've barely had this little guy for a month, yet already liking him.

But I like the T. Sauritus the best.

[zendragondrew]

I don't know what species mine is, looks to be either Thamnophis marcianus or Thamnophis sirtalis from all the pictures I've seen, but she's the only snake I've had. She will eat anything I put in her cage and never bites so I think she's pretty cool. I just got her a new substrate that is easy to dig in and now she stays underground with just her head popping out. So cute!

33983399

[infernalis]

Looks like an Eastern to me..

http://www.thamnophis.co/husbandry/sirtal.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Yes...looks exactly like Selena, one of my easterns...3404

[zendragondrew]

Thanks, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure. A lot of these species look very similar to me, I'm not very experienced at this stuff.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...looks like both my easterns actually...

[katach]

Thanks, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure. A lot of these species look very similar to me, I'm not very experienced at this stuff.

Well you came to the right place then. :) You'll get there in no time with all the wonderful and knowledgeable people here.

[tress29]

A lot of these species look very similar to me, I'm not very experienced at this stuff.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

My snakes have been playing tricks on me. Today at lunch, I held the radix, the real one! The little one I played with last night wasn't the radix, but the coast! The radix is about 50% bigger/longer and much darker but both have a yellow stripe. The two smaller ones were under the hide. I ended up holding each for just a minute or so. Just want them to get used to me, and for me to get used to them!

And I don't have a favorite yet!

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure. A lot of these species look very similar to me, I'm not very experienced at this stuff.

For future reference, note that checkered garters (T. marcianus) usually have a dark "collar" behind their head, and the dark blotches or squares usually touch one another. Another similar looking snake (sometimes) is the Wandering garter (T. elegans vagrans) but it's a western snake and the blotches almost always overlap the dorsal stripe a bit.

First thing you want to consider is where the snake was found. That way you can rule out snakes that do not occur where you found it.;)

[zendragondrew]

Yeah, I found her in New York so that's why I thought she was an Eastern.

[ConcinusMan]

Well then, definitely eastern. T. sirtalis sirtalis.