Her first shed...

[EasternGirl]

Selena (the snake formerly known as Bibur) is shedding for the first time!

It seems to be freaking her out a bit...she doesn't know what is going on. Someone said something about the importance of a water dish for shedding? She is not going in the dish to shed...should she be?

Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday!

BTW...she is still terrified of me...I think she is just a very skiddish snake. :rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

Sometimes they don't go in the water. If they feel the need to, they will. It does take a bit of time for them to become used to you, I've had snap for 4? months I believe and I hold her often but she's still not too used to me. Some snakes just take a while to get used to you and calm down.

[EasternGirl]

I'm glad that you replied to my post, Chantel, because I've been reading some of your posts and have some questions for you. It seems like your snakes are so friendly...I know you said it took them a while, especially Mama. Selena is just terrified of me. She gets out of my hand as quickly as possible if I try to hold her. She hides most of the time when she sees me. I'm wondering if there is anything I can do?

I'm still not sure how much I should be feeding her... (she sneaks out and snatches her food and takes it to her hide, btw). I give her a couple of cut up pieces of worm every couple of days. Do you think that is enough? How do I know if she is big enough to try a pinkie?

Thanks! Oh, btw...you were talking about your snakes pooping on you...Selena likes to pee on me when I hold her..lol.

[ConcinusMan]

They're often more nervous or secretive until they complete their shed. In the wild, they are vulnerable to predators during shedding or when their eyes are cloudy.

The "terrified of me" part should subside if you don't mess with them much unless it's to feed them. After a while they associate you with a pleasant experience (getting fed) instead of an unpleasant one (getting messed with by the big mean giant)

Some snakes never do take a liking to being handled. Some of my babies will squirm and musk if I pick them up, but I don't think they're terrified of me since they come rushing toward me at feeding time.

[kibakiba]

The pee is probably musk ;) If it smells foul that's mostly likely what it is. Snap is the same way, she can't stand me and will hide most of the day. I usually try to give them a little bit of space if I'm not feeding them or changing their water or substrate. I do hold them at least once a week for 30 minutes to an hour.

As for food, I go by feeding them enough to make a noticeable bulge in their stomachs and then feed them a day or two after, if the bulge is gone. Worms get digested pretty quickly, too so I would say a few every couple days could be enough. I wouldn't go more than 4 days without feeding if it is worms or filleted fish. Might think of your finger as food ;)

[EasternGirl]

Interesting about them being more nervous before they shed....as soon as she got that shed off, she was all over her cage being, suddenly, very brave. Also, she went into her water. I noticed her eyes being cloudy a few days ago...I didn't know what it meant and thought she was sick.

It might be musk...it smelled a bit but not much.

I have never noticed her stomach bulge after she eats. She only eats about four small pieces of worm at a time. She won't eat from me....she doesn't like anyone watching when she eats. I put her food in a little dish and she waits until she knows no one is looking, and then snatches it and takes it to her hide.

I'm wondering if I should try putting a pinkie in for her...or if it would be too big at this point? She is still so small.

She has never tried to bite me...knock on wood.

[kibakiba]

I'm not sure about feeding her a whole pinkie, my male adult Snakey still has trouble eating pinkies. If you're comfortable with cutting it up, you could mix it with the worms and she'll probably grab onto some of the pinkie. If you're like me, it'd be kind of hard to do. I'm squeamish... Blood instantly makes me sick and scared, even cartoon blood.

Do you put more than 4 pieces in her enclosure? if so and she doesn't eat them then I would assume she's eating as much as she wants to and you wouldn't have to feed her more if she wasn't hungry enough to eat them all. With Mama she can eat 2 pinkies and it barely makes a bulge, she's pretty girthy, though.

[ConcinusMan]

If it's worms you're feeding and you're not seeing them get really full (bulge) then I would offer them daily, or at least every other day, and feed her as much as she'll eat, or until you see a bulge. Pinkies or fish will sustain her a bit longer so every few days would be OK in that case.

The cloudy eyes is the new skin forming under the old. After it clears up, the new skin is ready and the old gets shed off soon thereafter.

[EasternGirl]

She is so happy now that she shed! I've never seen her so active. She is all over her enclosure, investigating everything. Of course, now that she is brave...maybe she might decide to bite me if she doesn't want to be messed with...lol.

I have been putting about four or five small pieces of worm in each day. I was putting them in everyday because she wasn't eating for a few days. She started eating again yesterday...she usually eats about three or four pieces and leaves the rest.

I am not a squeamish person...but I am an animal lover and I don't know that I could cut up little mice...even if they are dead. Perhaps I will wait and try the pinkies when she is bigger. She was never interested in them when I tried them before...and she was never interested in fish. Worms are the only thing I have gotten her to eat so far.

[ConcinusMan]

They usually refuse food when a shed is coming up soon. Perfectly normal.

I cut up mice all the time, it's easier if they're still frozen. I even skin frozen adults. Make a cut, grab a flap and start peeling it like an orange. They don't bleed until they thaw. :cool: Gotta do what you gotta do. Don't think of it as a mouse. Just think of it as meat.

[kibakiba]

It's still hard to do. I cut one in half to feed to the babies and I had to get my mom do finish it. I cant even touch meat if it has blood on it. Sucks for the babies, they love pinkie parts.

[EasternGirl]

Haha...I hear ya...the first time I had to cut up an earthworm, I had to get my mom to do it! Now I do it all the time...no biggie. I will try cutting the frozen pinkies...I just think of it as...my snake needs to eat, and she is more important than the mice or worms. I don't think I could feed live mice or rats to a snake, though. I used to have rats as pets!

I am such a proud mama today...attached is a pic of Selena's first shed...

[kibakiba]

Yeah, I did too, I can cut worms and fish up fine and I don't mind cutting of the pinkie tails, legs and heads to feed the babies, its the other parts that gross me out. I feed the dismembered pinkies to my adults usually.

[ConcinusMan]

OMG! you forgot to feed your snake? Oh wait. Just skin. Whew!:p

[guidofatherof5]

Nice job Selena.
May you have many more sheds.

[drache]

congrats, and many more to come

[EasternGirl]

Thanks guys! I managed to chop up a pinkie today. It isn't bad at all when they are frozen. I just put the thawed pieces in Selena's enclosure and I am waiting to see what happens. I tried offering them to her with tweezers....um...apparently she has not gotten that brave! Lol...she freaked out and hid from me again. It is comical...but kind of sad...when they butt their heads into the glass and try to get through it. Pobrecita!

[EasternGirl]

She ate the pinkie! I would say she ate the whole thing...but the funny thing is, she always leaves one piece. She does it with the worms too. Now, she is basking. Should I be concerned that she ate too much because she ate a bunch of worm pieces yesterday and the day before? Maybe I should wait a couple days before feeding her again?

I bought a 40 watt night bulb for heat for her...but I am worried it is too hot for her. I ordered a reptile lamp stand so that I can situate the lamp above her enclosure so it isn't too hot. I still have a 25 watt basking lamp for her. I wonder if she has everything she needs? I read things about vitamins and water cleaner and wet moss. I don't have any of those things....just aspen bedding, dome lamps, plants and hide rocks...and a water dish.

[ConcinusMan]

65-75 degrees at night is fine. up to 90 during the day is OK as long as there is a gradient. In other words, she needs a warm area but also a way to cool down. That's one reason I like long tanks. It can be 70's on one end and upper 80's on the other, which is perfect. Lets the snakes choose their own comfort zone.

[EasternGirl]

She went back and ate that last bite of pinkie...guess she really likes them. Yeah, she's a pretty smart girl...she likes to lay right under her basking lamp...but she'll move when she has had enough. I haven't been using any type of heat at night so far...I just shut off her basking lamp and put a towel around her tank. It stays about 60-65 degrees in my house at night. I just don't want her to get too cold at night.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think your night temps are too cold for an adult. Just make sure it's no more than 10 hours a night at those temps. If she's sitting under the basking lamp during the day, then obviously it's not getting too warm either.

[EasternGirl]

Well, I'm not sure how old she is....if she shed for the first time does that mean she is now an adult? So, how long should I leave her basking light on? I've been turning it on in the morning around 8 or 9..and then turning it off at night around 9pm. Maybe I better try the night bulb...I'm just waiting for the lamp stand that I ordered so that the bulb isn't too close to her.

[EasternGirl]

Another question...as I am thinking about getting another snake...can you just take a new snake and put it in with another without any problems? I am talking about garters specifically.

[ConcinusMan]

Generally speaking, yes you can. There are some precautions depending on the sex, species, and size of the snakes you intend to house together but generally, multiple garters, even different species, can be placed together.

[kibakiba]

I'd say if your house stays in the 60s it seems like a perfect temperature. I keep my room at the low to mid 70s at night. My heater turns off and at certain temperatures, which is set as close as I can get it to turn on at 70 and off at 75. The unfortunate thing about the heater is it cant go lower, and if I leave it off my room gets extremely cold. My snakes do seem to be happy with the temperatures that I keep it on, they have been out and about slithering around everywhere. :D

Putting other snakes in with Selena could cause her to become nervous. My snakes have better appetites when they're housed together and seem nervous and distant when they're alone. This isn't true of all snakes, some will become more fearful and/or nervous if there's another snake in their enclosure. If you are going to put another snake in there, have a temporary tank ready just in case they don't get along or if they seem to be scared of each other. When I got my redspots from Richard (concinnusman) I watched how Runt reacted to them being in her tank for about an hour and off and on throughout the week to make sure the three of them were doing okay.

I don't know how big snakes in your area get, but I'm sure depending on the length of her body you could get a close estimate from someone who knows more about them. I only know about northwesterns, the midgets of the garter snakes... :D

[EasternGirl]

Well, the snake that I believe to be Selena's mother lives under our house and she is big for a garter...about three-feet-long, and her head is about the size of a half dollar. She is the biggest garter I have seen in my yard. There was another one in my basement about two years ago that was almost as big. I measured Selena a couple of weeks ago and she was ten inches long...I'd say she's about a foot long now. Is there a way to tell how old she is? Does her first shed give an idea?

I am going to wait and see if I get more babies in my basement in the spring. If I do, I will try to put one in with her. If I don't, I might look for one of those pretty blue pugets to buy.

[kibakiba]

I'd say she shouldn't be too much older than a year. Some garters do get pretty huge. Northwesterns only get up to 1.5-2 ft if I remember correctly. Mama's about 2 feet right now. Maybe someone else can give a little information. I don't know too much about other garters. :)

[ConcinusMan]

Biggest northwestern garter I've ever seen was one I caught just this past summer. An old female 2.5 feet. I've heard of them getting bigger, but generally speaking, they are a very small species and grow very slowly when compared to most garters.

They are mostly worm and slug eaters but some will take pinkies and fish.

Oregon red spotted garters, on the other hand, grow very fast and I regularly find them over 3 feet. I have one female that's over 3 and a half feet.

[EasternGirl]

How fast does a garter grow...generally speaking? I'm torn...Selena is so cute right now with her little head and face no bigger than my pinkie fingernail...but I am kind of hoping she gets really big too!

Selena ate a whole pinkie yesterday and I still see no discernable bulge...her body looks wider in general, but there is no spot that is bulging. She has pooped a couple of times but it's little tiny bits...should I be concerned that she isn't passing the pinkie? Should I feed her more? Someday I will not be stupid when it comes to snakes...lol.

[ConcinusMan]

Babies kept warm and fed daily or nearly daily, tend to grow very fast. You can get an idea how fast your snake is growing by how often it sheds. Shedding every 4-7 weeks is an indication of very fast growth. Babies go through stages and "growth spurts" just like any other baby animal. They tend to slow down a little when they reach 1-2 years old but continue to grow their entire lives. Growth rate and maximum size depends on the species, the food,(how often, and what kind of food) temperature, and many other factors.

Feeding baby oregon red spots daily or nearly daily since they were born in August has resulted in their shedding every 4-6 weeks. They are about 5 months old now and the one's I kept have at least doubled in size in that time. But don't expect them to double every 5 months. Like I said, they slow down once they reach about a year old.

Keep caring for your snake the way you have been and it's not out of the question for a female eastern to reach 3 feet in length. IMHO, it doesn't take away their "cuteness". I have a female red spotted that is over 3.5 feet. She's still cute as heck. She only sheds about twice a year, and so at her age, she's growing very slowly and won't get much bigger before she dies of old age.

[EasternGirl]

How long do snakes generally live? Well, Selena ate again today...I figured I would offer her some worms and she gobbled them up! She was looking for more! So, I guess I am not feeding her too much. It's okay to feed her daily then? Perhaps alternating between a pinkie one day and some worms the next?

Selena and I had a bonding session today. She insisted on staying wrapped around her little fake bush...but I held the bush with her in it in my hand and she popped her head out and starred at me for a while. She kept inching her head out...trying to decide if she should go into my hand...she finally decided not to...so I put her back in her enclosure and figured...it was some progress.

[ConcinusMan]

Pythons can live 30 years I believe. Garters vary. 10-13 years in captivity is pretty typical but I've had Oregon Red Spotted garters live 20 years.

Next time, try offering her a worm when she comes out to you like that. Food is the universal "olive branch". She'll come to trust you when she thinks of you as someone who brings her food.

[kibakiba]

Mama's pretty large and I think she's beautiful as an adult, she has a different face shape than the other garters I've found in my area. My yearling, Runt, is a baby and she's adorable how she is right now. Her head is smaller than my pinkie fingernail, and she has these cute big eyes and an adorable innocent face, but I'm really interested in seeing how she looks when she's an adult. My male adult, Snakey, has kept his "cute, innocent" face that he's had since he was a baby. I don't know if Mama's changed at all since I caught her as an adult. :)