Garter snake not eating

[amaterasu]

I purchased my san fran garter 4 months ago and for a while she was eating loads. However for the past month and a bit she has only taken two bits of trout. I considered it being because of winter but I have kept the lights on for 12 hours and have kept the heat the same. I am beginning to get a bit worried as she is only a hatching, saying that she looks very healthy and is still quite active.

Even though she hasn't ate in a few weeks she has defaced quite a few times which lead me to believe that she was preparing for brumation. Would this be the best option? If so some tips would be great as I find it pretty daunting. The reason I've avoided doing it so far was because the breeder advised that I wouldn't have to.

I haven't tried a massive variety of food items, I have tried rodent tails and a couple of different fish parts. Before I bought her she was feeding on trout parts. Due to it being winter I haven't been able to collect any earth worms.

What do you think is the problem and what do you advise to try to get her feeding again?

Thanks a lot for you time.

[gregmonsta]

You have two options -
Some garters do snap out of it with raised temps and
persisting to try a variety of foods. You can order lobworms here - Worms Direct UK - worms for fishing, fishing bait, worms for bait, Dendrobaena for fishing, fishing bait wholesalers (http://www.wormsdirectuk.co.uk/acatalog/Lobworms.html)

Or put here down for a month to help reset her appetite.

With a juvenile I would see brumation as a last resort. But then, I've not had a juvenile go off food at this time of year before.

[guidofatherof5]

Greg's advice is spot-on.;)

[amaterasu]

I have already tried raising the temperature. I'll order the lob worms and give them a shot, cheers.

If that doesn't work it's looking like I'll have too brumate her. Are there any dangers associated with brumating juveniles?

[gregmonsta]

Same as for adults really. Juveniles do have less of a fat store to rely on though. A short brumation is advised. A month did the trick for my male radix a couple of years back ;).

[Selkielass]

I'm not Brumating my Eastern garter (Abby) but she has slowed down, and keeps to the coolest part of the terrarium, showing little interest in food except for worms, and even then eating quite lightly.

Ziva, my 6 m.o. checkered lives on or next to the heat and greedily gulps down three large pinkies plus assorted worms every week.

Follow your snakes lead- give it a cooler spot to retreat to if it desires, but continue to offer it its favorite foods once or twice a week and watch its weight.
Good luck!

[ConcinusMan]

Here's something to consider. You said you're giving the snake 12 hour days. Do you know how long it's days were before you got it? Probably not, but if it was getting 8-10 hours of darkness and now it's getting 12... well, you get the idea. The snake would think that it's time to brumate soon. Those people that say light intensity and duration has no affect on garters are mistaken. Once the snake gets the idea that it's time to brumate because of day length clues aren't going to respond to temperature increase alone. You must increase the day length too.

Of course, we don't know why your snake isn't eating and so don't take this as advice as to what you should do. It's just one possible reason for his not eating.

What are you using for lighting?

[amaterasu]

Here's something to consider. You said you're giving the snake 12 hour days. Do you know how long it's days were before you got it? Probably not, but if it was getting 8-10 hours of darkness and now it's getting 12... well, you get the idea. The snake would think that it's time to brumate soon. Those people that say light intensity and duration has no affect on garters are mistaken. Once the snake gets the idea that it's time to brumate because of day length clues aren't going to respond to temperature increase alone. You must increase the day length too.

Of course, we don't know why your snake isn't eating and so don't take this as advice as to what you should do. It's just one possible reason for his not eating.

What are you using for lighting?

No I don't know how long she was getting. I'm just using a standard lamp.

[ConcinusMan]

If it were me, I'd use a full spectrum florescent in addition to a basking lamp for heat. I would also make the day length about 14-16 hours. I would never use only a household incandescent. It's not natural and they are more active and eat more with a more natural light.

It's not really surprising if a diurnal snake doesn't want to eat if you're only using an incandescent lamp with a limited spectrum. Ive seen this happen many times. A snake will often seem "depressed" or inactive, and have a poor appetite when only using a "standard lamp" (still not sure what you mean by that) Depending on the spectrum your bulb is putting out, the snake might not even see half the light you are seeing. To him it could be pretty dark.

A florescent full spectrum bulb, or a florescent made for growing plants, often fixes this. You've probably heard of people who get depressed in winter because of reduced daylight and lack of sunshine. Many snakes, especially dirunal garters, are not immune to the same problem.

[amaterasu]

If it were me, I'd use a full spectrum florescent in addition to a basking lamp for heat. I would also make the day length about 14-16 hours. I would never use only a household incandescent. It's not natural and they are more active and eat more with a more natural light.

It's not really surprising if a diurnal snake doesn't want to eat if you're only using an incandescent lamp with a limited spectrum. Ive seen this happen many times. A snake will often seem "depressed" or inactive, and have a poor appetite when only using a "standard lamp" (still not sure what you mean by that) Depending on the spectrum your bulb is putting out, the snake might not even see half the light you are seeing. To him it could be pretty dark.

A florescent full spectrum bulb, or a florescent made for growing plants, often fixes this. You've probably heard of people who get depressed in winter because of reduced daylight and lack of sunshine. Many snakes, especially dirunal garters, are not immune to the same problem.

I have her in a tub until she grows a bit so there's no way to have it inside her enclosure. Will she still benefit from a full spectrum light when it has to go through the tub?

I'm now giving her 14 hours of light.

[gregmonsta]

Personally, I don't use full-spectrum lighting but then again I get quite a lot of natural light through my velux windows.
The tub would limit the amount of light received but it may still do the job. See how it goes first and how it reacts to your current increase in temps, light, etc.

[ConcinusMan]

Even natural light coming through a window (not direct sunlight of course) helps a lot too. It's just that it's limited in the winter and that may contribute to their sense of the season and make them want to brumate.

Yeah, I think that would be a good idea. Maybe even just another lamp with a compact florescent, along with an increase in day length. 12 hours indicates spring or fall. A few hours more might do the trick. Anyway, it won't hurt.

[amaterasu]

Yeah I'll see how it goes. Hopefully she'll start eating, fingers crossed. I'll get a full spectrum for her soon, at the moment I've added a uv bulb for her. Even though it won't let the uv through it'll hopefully help.

Thanks a lot everyone for your help.

[ConcinusMan]

No I don't know how long she was getting. I'm just using a standard lamp.


I have her in a tub until she grows a bit so there's no way to have it inside her enclosure. Will she still benefit from a full spectrum light when it has to go through the tub?

I'm now giving her 14 hours of light.

I don't get it. First I don't get why someone would put such a beautiful snake in a tub,(unless it's clear like glass) and second, how are you lighting a tub?

Maybe we should back up a minute. Describe the entire setup including heat and lighting used, or better yet, post pics. Maybe there's something I'm missing entirely.

If you're talking about a reptisun florescent, UVA/UVB bulb, or equivalent, that's what I use. The UV isn't needed by garters, but doesn't hurt as long as they aren't albino, and the bulb does do a good job of simulating natural daylight and that's important part.

Let me show you what I mean. My babies were at first kept in clear tubs heated by bottom heat. They didn't like it one bit, and weren't eating much at all. I put them in this glass tank, with lights 12 inches from the bottom of the tank. Now they are active, eat daily, and are acting snakes should act.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7955/dscn1741medium.jpg

The florescent is a full spectrum bulb with a little UV output. The dome light has a standard household 60 watt flood lamp in it (turned off in this pic) for heat and basking. This lights up the tank like natural daylight and the basking area under the dome light is just like a sunny place to bask and warm up.

Some people keep garters in tubs and swear by them and have no problems. You won't catch me keeping a garter in a tub as a permanent home. Especially one that isn't clear or can't be well-lit inside. They just don't like it, and neither do I. Many diurnal snakes, including garters just don't do well if their enclosure isn't well lit with a spectrum that somewhat resembles natural daylight. If they do OK in a tub, they don't have normal activity and behavior. They just sort of sit there and there's no way to observe them without disturbing them.

Your baby might just be "daylight depressed". Lighting such as above, often gets them out of it, and they start eating with more enthusiasm.

[amaterasu]

I do not intend to keep her in the tub for long, to be honest I would much prefer to keep he in a viv. The reason I have her in a tub is because she was kept in them before I bought her and I didn't want to stress her by moving her into a different type of housing as soon as I got her. It's also because I wanted to make her feel secure with out feeling exposed due to having lots of open space.

Here's a picture of her set up:

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/73/1021647.jpg (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/1021647.jpg/)

As you can see her tub is sitting on a heat mat. Her tub is under a lamp and I've recently put a uv light near her as well.

That's great to hear of how well they have done in a tank, I would love to see her in one so I'm going to get one set up for her as soon as possible.




(http://img821.imageshack.us/i/1021647.jpg/)

[ConcinusMan]

While it's true that a change of scenery (housing) can stress out a snake until they adjust, I say go for it and get a 10, or even better, a 20 gallon LONG like the setup I showed. I think if a "viv" as both live plants and animals but I know what you mean. It's not truly a "vivarium" in the sense that the only thing in mine that is really alive, is the snakes. Plants are fake and the snakes don't care.

Anyway, even if the snake was used to housing like you have, it's really akin to a jail cell and there's no way to make a temperature gradient. A long tank such as a 20 gallon long, with the lighting like I showed, makes a nice gradient. The snakes can bask at upper 80's, on one end, or go to the other end in the 70's (where the water is) at their leisure. Plants, wood, multiple hides, etc. not only looks nice for use, but the snakes seem to like exploring around it and that, along with the lighting seems to stimulate their naturally inquistive nature and seems to make them more "happy" and active. A happy, active snake will of course, have a good appetite.

It's worth a try. That florescent looks to be fine, and combine it with a household flood lamp to provide a hot sunny spot on one end, lots of fake plants and hiding places, and you have yourself a garter playground.

I do the same thing for my adults, but on bigger scale. (a 55 gallon long) with more light, a higher watt incandescent bulb,(whatever it takes to make bright daylight and the right temperatures) but still, the same principle. I like this 'cause it looks nice, and the snakes seem to like it, and behave pretty much like they would in the wild, all the while allowing me to watch them behave like snakes. You can see that the regular bulb produces a yellow light and that's the warm spot. But I also light the cool end with a florescent for a balance of light spectrum. If they don't want to be out in the light and want to nap, they have dark places to retreat to.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7564/dscn0813.jpg

It's funny, if they catch me watching, they suddenly start acting like dogs begging for food.:p

But for the most part, they are active, move around and explore a lot, and that's what garters do! That's why I love garters. They aren't sedentary by nature. They are inquisitive and active during their spring and summer months. That goes for SF garters too.

[amaterasu]

Woops, I associated vivariums as an enclosure purpose built for reptiles, amphibians etc. I must of been mistaken though.

I'm all excited about getting her in one now, it'll be great to see her acting naturally. I'll get her in one as soon as possible but I'll need to wait until the shops open again before I can buy a tank. Brilliant set up by the way.

Also she's just shed today, she hadn't shown any signs of going into shed so I was really surprised. Her colours are looking really vibrant now.

Thanks a lot for your time, I really appreciate it.

[ConcinusMan]

Well there you go. Maybe now she'll eat? Get her good and warm and then give it a try.

[gregmonsta]

You should know that garter snakes tend to be the polar opposite of other snakes as Richard mentioned ;) ... They are not fond of tub life - they hate anything coming from above.
They are very active - a small space doesn't suit their roaming habits.
I use tubs myself when growing on snakes to join the others in the communal vivs but always the biggest tub I can find/have available. They always do better in a front-opening viv and have raised juveniles in 2ft tanks quite happily so don't worry about space ;).
As an adult you'll be looking at a minimum 3foot enclosure for her.

[amaterasu]

Well here's a bit of an update, I finished of her tank a couple of days ago and now I've got her in it. She seems to be loving it and is a lot more active now. Thankfully she ate for me today, which I'm really chuffed about. Here is her set up if anyone is interested.

http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sam1657g.jpg/http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sam1657g.jpg/http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5486/sam1657g.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sam1657g.jpg/)

By the way gregmonsta she'll be going into a 4x2 as an adult.

[ConcinusMan]

Nice! glad to hear that she's eating now. That's great!

[gregmonsta]

Good news mate ;).

[EasternGirl]

Wow! What a lovely enclosure! She should be very happy now. Good luck and welcome!

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice looking setup.

[justme]

From the tub to a mansion! Very nice! Glad to hear your snake ate and is beginning to adjust in its new home.

[ConcinusMan]

Well here's a bit of an update, I finished of her tank a couple of days ago and now I've got her in it. She seems to be loving it and is a lot more active now. Thankfully she ate for me today, which I'm really chuffed about. Here is her set up if anyone is interested.

http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sam1657g.jpg/http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sam1657g.jpg/http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5486/sam1657g.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/sam1657g.jpg/)

By the way gregmonsta she'll be going into a 4x2 as an adult.

Might want to put something reflective over the florescent (but not touching it) so it reflects more light downward. Just a suggestion.;)

Very nice setup you have there.;)

[amaterasu]

Thanks a lot everyone!

I'm actually in the middle off building a little hood for the florescent to sit in, so thanks for your advice I'll line that with some kind of reflective material once it's finished.

I must admit I'm really surprised how much the extra lighting and larger enclosure has helped. She ate again today so it's looking really promising, the other thing I've noticed is that she is a lot more confident now. Before when if I went anywhere near her she would frantically attempt to get away. Now she tolerates my presence and actually seems to be quite inquisitive about what I'm doing. I think that approaching her from the front has helped too. It's brilliant to see her exploring everything, I can spend ages just watching her now. Garters are brilliant :)

[ConcinusMan]

Doesn't surprise me a bit.:rolleyes: I'm glad you made the change and that your snake is responding well. That's great!

Here's another tip: a flat white surface will reflect the light better than a shiny material. Even bright white inkjet paper does it better than foil or a glossy surface would.;) Whatever you use, make sure heat can escape so it doesn't shorten the life of your bulb.

[EasternGirl]

I agree...the environment..enclosure, light, and heat..make all the difference. My snake became so much more active when I moved her to a big 20 gallon enclosure with lots of plants and places to bask and hide. Today, when I added flourescent light, she really responded. And it is so true about watching them for ages...I could sit for hours and just watch Selena...they really are amazing creatures!

I'm so glad to hear your snake is doing well!

[erinlovessnakes]

that stinks that your snakes aren't eating:(

[ConcinusMan]

that stinks that your snakes aren't eating:(


That's no longer the case. Eating now.;)

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, amaterasu :)