Great news everyone!

[EasternGirl]

My baby garter, Bibur, finally ate! He ate a couple pieces of earthworm...and I'm hoping he goes back and eats some more. He also drank some water. Now I can stop worrying constantly. Question: he is about a foot long, his head is no bigger than my fingernail...how much should he eat and how often?

BTW...it was really cool to watch him eat! ;)

[guidofatherof5]

The young can eat 3 times a week. You don't want to stuff the little one.
Much depends on the food size being offered and what food. Worms pass rather quickly. 24 hours after you feed Bibur his stomach bulge should return to normal.
Be sure to check out the care sheet to answer many of your questions:
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)
Glad to hear things are going well.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks for the reply. I read the care sheet and I have a few more questions that perhaps some members could answer. Should I try to feed him a whole worm? For example, should I be putting an entire earthworm in three times a week?

Should I buy vitamin supplements for him?

How do I know if the snake is a boy or a girl?

Bibur has a plastic terrarium...I have a heating pad for humans underneath one side of his cage, set on low. The heating pads at the pet store say they can only be used on glass, but Bibur can escape from glass terrariums at this point. How can I provide heat and know that it isn't too much for him? I also have a basking light.

I want to hold him but he seems so skiddish right now....should I wait? Will he bite?

Thanks for putting up with my endless questions.....you guys rock!

[mb90078]

Quantity to feed really depends on size and age, so it's hard to say exactly, but I think feeding 2 half pieces of worm 3 times a week might be OK, perhaps a little on the light side.

Vitamin supplements are not necessary if you're planning to feed a balanced diet (fish, pinkies, worms, etc). If only using worms, you may want to think about it, but it still is probably not 100% necessary.

Hard to say about the heating pad. To be safe, I would personally put towel in between the pad and the plastic to absorb some of the heat and make it less intense. I would also strongly recommend a thermometer to gauge the heat inside.

Now that he's eating, he may slowly be adapting to life in captivity. Maybe after the food has been given time to digest, you can perhaps just put your hands in the tank to get him used to your presence. Do this a couple times, and then go for short, calm handling sessions. He may bite, but probably not.

Thanks for the reply. I read the care sheet and I have a few more questions that perhaps some members could answer. Should I try to feed him a whole worm? For example, should I be putting an entire earthworm in three times a week?

Should I buy vitamin supplements for him?

How do I know if the snake is a boy or a girl?

Bibur has a plastic terrarium...I have a heating pad for humans underneath one side of his cage, set on low. The heating pads at the pet store say they can only be used on glass, but Bibur can escape from glass terrariums at this point. How can I provide heat and know that it isn't too much for him? I also have a basking light.

I want to hold him but he seems so skiddish right now....should I wait? Will he bite?

Thanks for putting up with my endless questions.....you guys rock!

[gregmonsta]

I would not trust a heat pad without the use of a thermostat.

[ConcinusMan]

Better to go get yourself a 20 gallon long reptile enclosure and use a 40 to 60 watt incandescent bulb over one end of it. (use a dome fixture). Makes a perfect temperature gradient. Close to natural spectrum is recommended but UV output is not necessary. I find killer deals on enclosures on craigslist every day. Somebody yesterday was asking $50 for a 120 gallon glass tank. Wow.

Using that heat pad and plastic setup can be dangerous. Besides, garters like to bask under "sunlight"

[EasternGirl]

Thanks for the help...the problem is right now with Christmas and being out of work...and the money I already spent on Bibur's home...I'm kind of strapped for money. I was going to go to the pet store today and get a thermostat and some fake plants for him. There is only one pet store near me that carries reptiles...and where they have a reptile manager that knows about reptiles...the tanks that they carry have tops that Bibur could certainly escape from. They said they could order me a special snake lid...but it's pretty pricey. I will look on Craig's list. For now, I do have a dome basking lamp on one side of his cage, and the heat pad is only under one end of his cage, with a towel in between, so that he can move away from the heat if he wants. He ate a whole half of a worm today, btw!

I should put a bowl with water filled enough so he can swim, right?

[EasternGirl]

One more thing....so he doesn't need a heat pad if he has a basking light?

[guidofatherof5]

One more thing....so he doesn't need a heat pad if he has a basking light?

Probably not but there is always a good debate about which is best.
It boils down to personal preference.
I'm a under tank heater fan. You'll figure out what works best for you in time.;)

[ConcinusMan]

It really depends on the enclosure and your snake. My iowa albino hates light and hides most of the time. For him, an under tank heater is appropriate since he's always nestled down in the substrate or hiding under moss, etc. However, I have a temperature probe placed in her favorite hiding spot to make sure it's a good temperature. If the ambient air temperature drops below 70, I also turn on a 40 watt ceramic heat emitter to warm the air in her tank.

All my other snakes seem to prefer bright basking bulbs (combined with florescent for a more natural spectrum). They just love to pile up together under the bulb. If used with a dome that directs the light straight down, I can achieve 90 degrees on one end of a 20 gallon while the cool end is only around 74 degrees.

I would definitely recommend a basking bulb if the ambient air temperature is at or below 70. No point in making them cling to the bottom to warm themselves because the air is too cold. I just find that my snakes are more active, eat more, and seem happier with warm, artificial "sunlight"

[gregmonsta]

Scientifically 'bottom heat' is much more important. Especially for digestion and for gravid females.

[EasternGirl]

Well, I have a 25 watt basking spot lamp on one side of the cage...and a heating pad on low with a towel in-between the pad and the cage on the other side. Like I said before, it's a human heating pad...and I know that is not ideal, but because his cage is plastic, I can't use the reptile tank heating pads. His cage is very large...he has plenty of room...I just can't afford to buy a big tank right now and every other cage I tried for him, he almost escaped from. He seems to like the set up I have for him...he often burrows on the heating pad side of the cage, and basks in the light on the other side of the cage. I did buy a stick-on thermometer, and put it in the middle of the cage....it seems to stay around 80 degrees.

On a different subject....Bibur is a fraidy-cat snake. I reach into the cage to check on him...he is always burrowed down in his bedding...I pet him and he freaks out and slithers all over the cage and then hides from me.

[ConcinusMan]

I do use a combination for my babies and leave the bottom heat on at night. I do still have a few and they are growing like weeds. But I dont use a reptile heat pad. I just don't see the point in buying (overpriced to begin with) something that gets too hot and then paying extra for a thermostat. I use a seedling heat mat and it's soooo much better and doesn't require a thermostat since it doesn't get too hot, and on top of that, it's thinner, cheaper, and bigger. I used it to heat several plastic shoe box tubs containing babies and it worked perfectly, and safely. I highly recommend giving these a try. You won't be disappointed. They come in a variety of sizes. I bought one that's big enough to heat the entire bottom of a 20 gallon long. No thermostat needed and it was only $30 at garden store.

Hydrofarm Seedling Heat Mat - 9L x 19.5W Inches - HDR001 (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=seedling+heat+mat&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vpy&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivs&resnum=1&biw=1680&bih=890&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=16621885535076197060&ei=ViYJTZRzieSxA_P47OsO&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CE8Q8wIwAA#)


Scientifically 'bottom heat' is much more important. Especially for digestion and for gravid females.

I disagree. I suppose if it was regulated it couldn't hurt but a gravid female will sit on that thing and cook her babies. I think what's more important for digestion and gravid females is that they can get their body temperature up to ideal. That can be accomplished with top heat alone and is less likely to "cook" the babies.

[guidofatherof5]

I think the snakes know how much heat is too much, in the same way they thermo regulate their own temps.
I've always used bottom heat without any known problems with gravid snakes.
I don't mean to imply that too much heat doesn't happen but it may be that an inexperienced female may get too much heat from top or bottom heat.
This may be one of those issues that boils down to personal preference.

[ConcinusMan]

I think the snakes know how much heat is too much, in the same way they thermo regulate their own temps.

I don't think so. Snakes sit on surfaces that are too hot and burn themselves all the time. I think this happens when the air is very cool, their body temperature is low, and the surface is hot enough to burn them. They really are quite stupid when it comes to this and don't seem to have enough sense to move and so they get burned. Of course they will move when their body temperature gets high, but they can get burned long before that happens.

[guidofatherof5]

Never having anything like that happen I can't say then. I may have spoken out of turn.

It was just my opinion from observations of my radixes.;)

[gregmonsta]

Scientifically 'bottom heat' is much more important. Especially for digestion and for gravid females.

:rolleyes: I'm going to repeat this .... simply because there are multiple, scientific sources to report this .... not once was there any mention of cooked babies. Considering that if your heat source is statted (between 28-32C) cooking babies in this way is nigh on impossible if you accept 45C as the average/approaching lethal excess of colubrid snakes.

Edit - also, female garters are reported to be nothing but exact when they are gravid .... keeping their core temp at 28C with great accuracy.

[kibakiba]

My friend had a rescued Python that was burnt all over it's body because of a heating pad. If they knew when to get off of the heat, it wouldn't have gotten burnt. It as supposedly at the temperature it was supposed to be for that snake, but it fell asleep and got burnt. Unfortunately for my friend the snake had died a couple months after she had rescued it. But I also don't have much knowledge of snakes. Especially non-garter snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

It does happen a lot. I still think that is because the ambient air temperature is too cold and the surface they are sitting on is too hot. As Steve was saying, he hasn't had any problems with belly heat. I'm sure the air temperature in his enclosures is pretty comfortable for them and the surface is not too hot.

Marnie, just be sure that they can't touch a surface that is too hot. Also make sure your belly heat is on one end, no more than 1/3 of the enclosure and the air temperature on the cool end is at least 70 during the day.

[EasternGirl]

I see I started a controversy here....lol. The heating pad that I use is always set on low and only takes up about a quarter of the cage on one side...I put a towel between the pad and the cage. I check it often and if I feel that the bottom of the cage is too warm, I shut it off. It also shuts off automatically after about ten minutes. It does make me nervous, though...perhaps I will try the seedling pad. Thanks again for all of the posts.

Bibur's newest thing is to refuse to eat his worms if anyone is looking. I have to cover one end of his cage with a towel, and then he sneaks out and snatches the worms and takes them into his little cave!

[gregmonsta]

My friend had a rescued Python that was burnt all over it's body because of a heating pad. If they knew when to get off of the heat, it wouldn't have gotten burnt. It as supposedly at the temperature it was supposed to be for that snake, but it fell asleep and got burnt. Unfortunately for my friend the snake had died a couple months after she had rescued it. But I also don't have much knowledge of snakes. Especially non-garter snakes.

It's a common problem and well documented. No serious python keeper would consider a heatmat as a suitable source of heat for such a heavy bodied snake. Ceramics/heat bulbs are essential as tropical species such as those of the pythonidae are the ones that do rely on high air temps.
A heavy bodied snake will cause thermal blocking with a heatmat leading to burns. This is wellknown in the hobby. Unless any heatsource is statted/guarded appropriately then operator error will lead to unfortunate injuries.