Quick Shedding Question

[Ryachanira]

How long does it usually take between eyes going milky and the snake to shed? We first noticed Silv's eyes to be very opaque and milky on Monday evening (although I admit I honestly hadn't given him a good look since Sunday morning probably, other than just to check that he was in the cage and alive and all, haha). It is now Thursday morning, he still has the milky eyes but no evidence of any shedding as far as I can tell. I am sure it is different for all snakes but a kind of average time (or just an assurance that he is still normal) would help.

Along that note, is there anything I should be doing for him right now? I know to check for retained shed/eyecaps after he sheds but at this stage is there something else I should do? This is the first time he has shed since we took him in (a little over 6 weeks ago) so I just want to make sure I do it right! :)

[drache]

there's no set schedule, but it does tend to take longer during the dryer, colder seasons
you can help by providing a damp hide in the enclosure
the easiest way to make one is to fill an appropriately sized plastic food container with something damp (sphagnum moss, a clean rag, a sponge), and cut a hole into it so the snake can get in and out at will

[guidofatherof5]

Rhea's advice is good.
I would offer a shed box to help in the shedding process.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/5014-cheap-shed-box.html

[ConcinusMan]

Piles of damp moss and/or shredded newspaper helps where maintaining high humidity is difficult. All my in-shed snakes like to snuggle down in the moist material in the few days prior to a shed. They seem to prefer this over soaking in the water dish.

Flicker's cloudy eyes cleared 4 days ago. He shed late last night. This is a typical length of time, but it can vary. I would begin to get concerned if the eyes have been clear for 7 days without shedding.

From the time the eyes go clear, there certainly is something you can do to help. Make sure there's some rough wood or rocks in there for him to rub on to get it started, and provide high humidity/misting and/or damp material to snuggle in. Don't try to assist the shedding unless he's having trouble such as coming off in pieces or shreds.

[Ryachanira]

Thanks for the advice - I had a cleaned out cream cheese tub that I had used once as a very small feeding box for him, but since he is not using it right now (darn snake still refuses to eat anything, I think he is getting a little too comfortable with this idea of tube feeding, heh..) I cut a hole it it. Went to the store and got some sphagnum moss, wet it down and stuck it in there. I put him in to start with, just so he knew it was there and all. There are a few rocks as well as some rough wood in there already so hopefully that will help him out!

I love this little guy to pieces but he does not have the best survival skills ever... missing brumination and trying to freeze to death, sitting right in my tire tracks in the garage, scraping up his head and blinding himself, and now not eating for like 5 weeks. I will not be surprised if he ends up needing a lot of help with shedding too, haha. He is lucky he found us to take care of him, otherwise he wouldn't have had a chance. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Glad you took the time to care.;)

[Charis]

On average, all of my snakes usually shed within 3 to 5 days of the eyes clearing.
Their eyes are usually cloudy for between 3 to 5 days as well, depending on the species.

[ConcinusMan]

Sounds about right. On a side note, my northwesterns will usually continue to eat through the cloudy phase but then refuse food after they clear. They resume eating immediately after the shed. The concinnus' are a bit different. Most of the adults will refuse food as soon as they start going cloudy, and sometimes won't start eating again until a few days after they shed. This means that they don't eat for anywhere from 10-14 days. For the babies in shed, they usually only refuse food for a few days while they are very cloudy.

[Charis]

My garters will often refuse to eat for the whole 10 to 14 days they are in shed but will eat the day after they shed. They are very easy to tell when they are starting into shed, as they get very dark & dull.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, even before they go cloudy, their colors just fade away. I have a couple of babies looking like that right now.

[Ryachanira]

Okay, so Silv's eyes started to clear up Thursday (so cloudy at least Mon-Thurs) and then this morning when I woke up he had started to shed. It definitely does not look like it is coming off in anything resembling one piece...

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/Shed1.jpg

And about 10 minutes after the first picture:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/Shed2.jpg

So it appears to be coming off in pieces, he is not so far getting much off the top of his body, and he has apparently damaged his nose in the process (the tip of his nose is kind of red and bloody looking, like he has been jamming it into things too much). Since I have been up he is pacing the cage like crazy rubbing up into things.

So is this normal shedding progression, or not? If not do I let him do his thing for awhile more and try to help later or just go help now? And how exactly do I help... I know I have read soaking him in warm water, but he is not going to like that so much (he pretty much hates water from what I can tell) and after I do that how do I remove the shed? Also, on the first picture his eye looks kind of weird, like maybe the eyecap is still on there and trying to come off... how do I check for retained eyecaps if I don't really have a complete shed to check?

Sorry for all of the questions, I just have no idea what I am doing at this point. Thanks for your help! :D

[ConcinusMan]

No, not normal. Silv needs help. You can try a shed box but honestly, if it were me, I'd put him in a shoebox or other plastic container with luke warm water in it,(80-85 degrees) giving him no choice but to sit it it, then close the lid up tight and leave him in for while. 30 minutes should be enough. After that, get yourself a dry terry cloth and use it to catch on the pieces of skin that are stuck, including his eyes, by rubbing on them backward toward his tail.

Do this with all the shreds and pieces back to a point until they come together and the skin starts to come off in one piece like a sock. (sometimes that just wont happen) If you can manage that, you can let him finish but from the looks of it, you might have to take it all off manually. Be sure to get the eye caps and pieces off his head, and watch for trouble around the vent. Make sure it all comes off his tail too.

You can do this, it's no biggie. Once he realizes what his happening, you'll be surprised how cooperative he can be. Believe me, he wants that skin off badly. It's important this doesn't take too long. It needs to be done soon. Any skin that stays on for much longer may become stuck for good, or until the next shed. A little antibiotic ointment on his raw area you mentioned can't hurt, just don't get it in his nostrils.

As far as eye caps go, a close inspection of her eyes will tell you if that part has been retained. The eyes should be very shiny, clear, and smooth looking. If the skin is still on there, they will not have a clear reflective quality.

It's likely he'll always have trouble getting his shed started due to the scarring on his nose, but hopefully it will go a bit better next time.

Jxix_Ftm2Lc

[guidofatherof5]

Luke warm running water in the sink. After a couple of minutes the shed should start to come off from the force of the water.
If not, you can gently remove it.
Silv needing to shed is a great sign.
You're doing a great job.

[Jeff B]

as stated by others these type of shedding issues usually occur this time of year when the air is dry and humidity in the cage is lower. when I see a snake having trouble like yours i put it in a plastic tub half full of luke warm water for a couple hours and then if the shed skin isn't completely off yet I will grab the snake with a towel and have it crawl thru it and any trouble spots like around the head just gently rub with the towel usually doest the trick with little effort. The little room humidifiers that they sell at Walmart for $26 work good to raise the humidity and will likely result in better sheds. We have a house furnace humidifier but that will only do so much without producing excessive condesation which can result in black mold/mildew, around every window in the house when it gets really cold outside, but I use the small Walmart humidifier in the winter/early spring to provide additional humidity in the reptile room and it seems to be helpfull.

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, I always provide a corner or hide where the substrate is kept moist. Snakes will take advantage of moist hides when in shed. I also mist snakes approaching shed time. It really helps. I might also add that shedding problems are not always caused by low humidity. Stress, illness, malnutrition, injury... all these things can cause shedding issues.

For example, I had a neglected milk snake I adopted. She wasn't in terrible shape but was significantly undernourished and kept without heat. This caused the skin that was now coming off, to be very thin and weak, causing shedding problems.

Her next shed was thick and strong and came off in one piece with no issues, since she was well nourished and warm when that skin formed.(skin now coming off was formed during the cloudy phase of her last shed)

I'm just saying your snake has been through a lot and was injured around the time that this skin was new. It could just be very thin and weak. Now that silv is well cared for, the next shed should be better. Thicker and stronger. Silv is probably always going to have trouble around the snout but next time should go better anyway.

For skin that is stuck on good or for a retained shed, I found that mineral oil and gentle rubbing with a scotch pad sometimes helps as a last resort. I don't think that will be necessary with this situation. Celophane tape, or tape with a fairly weak glue on it can help with pulling of tiny bits around scarred areas.

You're a good "daddy" keep up the good work.:D

[Ryachanira]

Well I let him go at it a bit, and then I had to leave before any of these replies, so I just decided to leave him for a couple of hours. Before I left I would say he had made it to about 1/3 of the way down, but coming off in pieces again, not whole. I did manage to find his little head piece though, and did see what I assume were the eyecaps - two thin eye-shaped pieces of shed attached to the rest of the head shed. He also shed off his scab, and now has a very pink looking area where he original head injury was. Do scales grow back or will this be bald forever?

Anyway, when I got home I noticed that he was no further along in shedding and seemed to have given up, or at least stopped for a break - he was up on the rim of the cage just laying there. So I put him in a bit of warm water, worked the shed with my fingers until I got it all lined up. He was pretty ticked at first but I swear, as soon as the shed started coming off he totally calmed down, and then just rested his head on my fingers and slowly wiggled his way out while I very lightly held onto the shed. It came off in one piece until the vent, where it broke. It was pretty difficult to get off from the vent to the tail tip (it kept ripping in little pieces and I had to get it restarted several times) but it is all off! I did not see any areas of retained shed either. Is there any increased chance of a problem with the vent area since it did tear there? I think I got it all but I would hate for him to have a problem later.

I did provide him with the humidity box I described earlier (cream cheese tub with moist sphagnum moss), he spent one day in it like on Wednesday I think, but I did not see him it it after that.

All in all, I think we finally have it taken care of! There are tiny pieces of shed ALL over his cage from his first few hours of attempt, so I think I will be cleaning his whole cage later today... it was about time anyway. I will have to take some pictures of him later to post here, he is looking really good now! I had read on other posts that snakes often don't eat around shed time, so I had not been tube feeding him. I figured that maybe between not eating for a few days and having just shed, maybe I can finally get him to eat something! I am getting a little tired of the tube... ;)

Thanks for all the great advice! :D

[guidofatherof5]

Great job helping him. Letting him work out of the shed was the way to go.
The eye cap shed should look like little clear contact lens.
In your first photo he has definitely retained the eye cap.
Keep up the good work.

[Mix]

After a little time away, I returned to read this post - literally as I am doing the same thing with Lily. It's the first time she's ever had any kind of trouble with a shed, but I'm guessing her diminished winter appetite, paired with dryer air, made it more difficult. She had gotten the top half of her head off, but the bottom jaw had stuck, as well as from the back of her neck.
We popped her in a tank with about 2cm of lukewarm water and a nice rough rock to see if it would loosen a bit. Unfortunately we had to intervene, but after a couple of seconds of rubbing, she did the same as Silv - just snuggled her head against hubby's hand and with minimal resistance let him get it peeled off her jaw. After that, it came off in one go.
I can honestly say, I have never seen Lily happier :)
I'm going to keep the 'damp corner' a little damper, I think, until we're not using central heating any more.
I hope Silv has more luck next time, too! x

[ConcinusMan]

They always do that. Protest until they realize the skin is coming off and then they're totally cooperative.

[kibakiba]

Snap was like that when she had a bit of retained shed on her chin, hated every second of it until she realized that I had gotten the skin off, then she decided to curl up and sleep in my hand. Tiny had the same problem and put up a little fuss as I tried to get the shed off of him. After a while he seemed to enjoy his little warm bath and he let himself float around in the water and when I put my hand in the water he swam up to it and curled up before letting me get the last 3/4ths of his shed off. It was a bit stressful for him since it was the full shed and it was his first time shedding. I hope Silv and Lily never have to endure that again. :)

[Ryachanira]

It is cute how they know when they are being helped out. They are pretty affectionate little guys, I would have never guessed before having Silv!

One more question (I know, I say that now and I am sure I will be back with another soon enough, haha). One of his eyes looks... dented.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvEye.jpg

You can see near the top front, there appears to be a dent in the eye... which is very odd. I checked his head-shed again, and there are definitely two complete eyecaps there (like little contacts!), interestingly enough the shed seems to show the same dent:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvEyecaps.jpg

However I have not noticed this dent until today, and even then I don't think I noticed it early this morning. I did poke at the shed eyecap to make sure the area was completely shed, and it appears to me that it is an entire solid eyecap. So.. what happened to his eye? You can also see the scab on his shed, and the fresh bald area on his head from his old head injury.

And just for fun, here are a couple of pictures of him today, post-shed:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvPostShed2.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvPostShed.jpg

His colors seem so vibrant right now! He has grown maybe 2 inches since we got him (it is hard to get a perfect reading since he will not stay straight). He is about 14.5 inches as of today! :)

Let me know if that eye is something I should be concerned about. I know I have said it several times on here, but again thank you all so much for your help these (almost) seven weeks, I am not sure Silv would have made it without you all! :D

[ConcinusMan]

It was quite obvious from the first photos of him you posted, that one eye is damaged beyond repair. I think what has happened here is that the eyeball it'self has shriveled up, leaving the clear cover that is the equivalent of our eyelids. Think of it this way. Close your eyes. You can still move your eyeball. Now imagine your eyelid is a clear, firm lens. That's how a snakes eye works. Since the eye itself has shriveled up, that leaves the clear dome and it has now become dented a little. I don't think it's anything to worry about. It doesn't look like there's any infection underneath it.

The scales on his head won't grow back. I've seen cases where some tiny scales grew back just a little bit, but not normal scales. I think he'll have that bald spot forever.