sick garter ( limp )

[untoucheclipse]

hey everyone, i need some info or help, my garter has been hibernating for 3 months now, just in a regular room with less light and cooler temps. today i was gonna give her some food and she is pretty much lifeless and lays limp with her mouth open. im worried i dont want her to die, just behind her head looks skinnier than normal too, but the rest of her body is still in good shape, shes kinda a dull grey color too.
thanks guys

[kibakiba]

If she was brumating (hibernating) why were you feeding her? I don't believe you're supposed to feed a garter while its brumating because their metabolism slows down and can cause the food to rot in their stomachs. Why has she been brumating for 3 months? That seems a bit early to start brumating, in my opinion. That was back in September... Most people didn't seem to start brumating their garters until late October or November.
I don't know much about brumation, other than what other members have said, but... someone else could give you more information on how to help her. Sometimes when garters are in shed they turn a bit opaque, are her eyes milky looking?

[untoucheclipse]

nope her eyes are black and she just lies there limp now.

[drache]

limp and mouth open does not sound good at all
when was the last time you saw her look normal?
you might try a lukewarm soak and see whether that helps, but I am not optimistic from your description
bringing her to a vet would be optimal, but it sounds like transporting her could do her in
definitely raise the temps and make sure she has adequate water
please keep us posted

[kibakiba]

Is she breathing, or flicking her tongue at all? If you pick her up or touch her does she even move? And have you been feeding her while she was brumating? If you have, I wouldnt be surprised if the food has rotted in her stomach, which if I remember what was said correctly, can kill her.

[untoucheclipse]

i will, i put her back in her tank with a mild heat lamp on to see if she will respond, she flipped on her side and her mouth isnt open now but lying not moving. i tried the soak and thats what put her into shock i think, yesterday she was fine

[untoucheclipse]

i did no feed her during brumation, she isnt flicking her tounge or breathing much, 3 months i havent fed her, i got the info from a guide on the net to not feed her for 3 months.

[kibakiba]

A soak in lukewarm water doesn't seem like it would put her into shock unless the water was warmer than that and maybe heated her body too fast. I'm not really sure, though.

[guidofatherof5]

Can you give us an idea of your brumation setup. Substrate, water, temps(important)
Thanks.

[untoucheclipse]

well it was about 5C in the room in the basement where i had her and the water would have been room temp for the room, its the coldest room in the house. the only thing is the lighting wasent completely dark

[untoucheclipse]

the thing is she was moving today and i held her and she moved around. then she just suddenly stopped moving. and hasent moved since, i dont no if shes dead tho caus shes lying there and her eyes are still black

[untoucheclipse]

i think i gave her a heart attack. geez im sad now :(

[HazAnga]

5 degrees Celsius from what i know might of been too cold, usually around 10-12 c is the key temp during brumating.

[guidofatherof5]

i think i gave her a heart attack. geez im sad now :(


If you're referring to the warm bath, I doubt that had anything to do with this situation.
Don't be too hard on yourself.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Limp snake that cannot seem to hold it's head or first 1/3 of it's body up? Oh crud. Not good.

The fact is, snakes die during brumation in the wild, or even in captivity. It's not necessarily your fault. Could have just been the time for that snake to go.

[zooplan]

5 degrees Celsius from what i know might of been too cold, usually around 10-12 c is the key temp during brumating.
It´s 5°C (41F) in my fridge and I don´t mind about it.
It´s a save brumation temperature for all northern species and I always try to keep the fridge beneath 10°C ( 50F).
Of course they must not jump from that to keeping conditions(20°C/68F) in a second, and feeding isn´t necessary untill they are warmed up completely.

It´s fate of reptile keepers, that some deseases couldn´t been recognized untill there´s no change of salvation left.

[ConcinusMan]

I suppose it would depend on the species Udo, but I can say that 41 F is bordering on deadly for T.s. concinnus' especially if they are small one's without much body mass. T. ordinoides can handle it, but not my concinnus'. 45 F is really a rock-bottom minimum for them. They brumate at approximately 60 cm below ground, (Which remains a constant 50 degrees F, all year long within their natural range) or if in a shallower location, they are warmed by decomposing matter.

I definitely worry about sustaining anything below 46 F for any length of time with my red spotted garters. I've lost a few small one's going below that. Brain damage. they go into convulsions and die. I've seen T. ordinoides survive below-freezing temperatures many times with no apparent harm.

It doesn't sound to me like this snake belonging to the OP, died from cold. He was probably already ill or otherwise ready to die anyway.

[ssssnakeluvr]

if they aren't feeding and you aren't breeding, brumate for a month. the 3 months is how long i brumate for breeding.

[ConcinusMan]

And I usually go with a hundred days, so that's close to what you're saying. The only time I cut it short is for snakes that are quite thin. 41 degrees seems way lower than necessary, even for northern species. I mean, why chance it when 50 degrees is plenty low enough.

[drache]

And I usually go with a hundred days, so that's close to what you're saying. The only time I cut it short is for snakes that are quite thin. 41 degrees seems way lower than necessary, even for northern species. I mean, why chance it when 50 degrees is plenty low enough.Richard - I don't think 50ºF is cold enough for parietalis, or radix - mine in any case barely even slow down until it gets down to around 45ºF. Not that I have the guts to go lower than that, but I can see that they wouldn't mind

[untoucheclipse]

Thnks for all the great replys guys. She did die due to my in experience. Im going to frequent this board and ask tons of questions before i keep another.

[mustang]

flip the snake over do u see green under the ventrical scales? just curious

[guidofatherof5]

Thnks for all the great replys guys. She did die due to my in experience. Im going to frequent this board and ask tons of questions before i keep another.

It's always a tough time when you lose one.
With so many unknowns it's hard to say what happened.
R.I.P. scrub.

[ConcinusMan]

Usually by the time they go limp like you described, they are beyond help, and on their way out of this world. Don't let this discourage you from keeping another. It's not like we haven't all lost some over the years. These things happen in spite of experience and good husbandry. Don't blame yourself.

[mustang]

flip the snake over do u see green under the ventrical scales? just curious
oh ya im sorry he didnt make it....i am just trying to solve an unresolved issue of mine

[drache]

sorry you lost your garter

[infernalis]

condolences for your loss.

[flickerfriend]

Im really sorry about your loss. I know precisely how it feels.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry about the loss.

[gregmonsta]

Sorry he didn't make it.