breathing click noise ! help!

[tstill14]

I have this garter snake. It's been a good snake for the whole close to a month now except just recently I've noitced a very suddel / quiet single click noise when it breaths. It's back to back clicking / pop noise that i cant hear unless I put the snake up to my ear. From what I understand that's not good cuz I could mean lung parisites. Is there anything I could do to help the guy, or is he ok?

And just some side notes.

It was a locally caught snake where I live in Oregon near Portland.

It's as active and frendly as my other garter about half his thickness and length and the big guy is atleast a foot and a half.

They booth eat good and plenty, but only earth worms sadly, they turn down everything else. But they are suplimented with calseium powder every once ina while.

[guidofatherof5]

The best thing would be a Vet. visit.
Before that, upping the temp. may help but respiratory infections can be serious.
Still eating is a good sign.
Keep us informed on the situation.

[zooplan]

If they are wild caught I would recommend visiting a vet,too.
Maybe ConcinnusMan could give an advice for a good one in your area.
Could you describe your set up? What kind of bedding do you use? ...

[HazAnga]

Your setup could be too damp, which could have caused a respiratory problem. best bet is to make sure it's dryer and not so humid. but just like zooplan's question, what kind of setup do you have and what kind of bedding is involved.

[ConcinusMan]

Welcome, tstill, Sometimes a quiet "click" that you can only hear if you place them close to your ear, is perfectly normal. Glad to have another member from the Portland area. I live in the metro area myself. I'm guessing you have Northwestern's. (Thamnophis ordinoides). If you use calcium supplements, go really easy on them. Northwesterns can live long healthy lives on nothing but worms, and they already have more calcium than most people give them credit for. I think you might have a male and a female judging from your description of their bodies. A healthy male is often much thinner than even an underweight female as you can see here:

q_7oq17j7v0

No matter how thin a snake appears to be, signs of undernourishment or being under weight, would be skin folds along the sides, and/or a backbone that appears to protrude.

I seriously wouldn't worry too much about a quiet click especially if the snake doesn't seem to be having trouble breathing. It's a rattle, wheezing, or gaping mouth you need to be concerned about. Many healthy snakes have a quiet "click" when they breathe.

[mustang]

if respitory infection watch this theyll show a treatment...but maybe its
A)the snakes got a booger or water or something in its nose
B) its just moving...when my snake moves i hear and feel *pop*s sometimes
heres the video
pJCnPfuqaBM

[ConcinusMan]

Respiratory infection usually produces an audible sound that you can hear without placing the snake close to your ear. Note that I said "usually"

Keep your snake on dry substrate, maintain moderate humidity (40-60 percent) and away from drafts. Drafts and dampness will cause a respiratory infection every time but believe it or not, keeping an enclosure constantly too warm and/or damp can do it too.

[mustang]

Respiratory infection usually produces an audible sound that you can hear without placing the snake close to your ear. Note that I said "usually"
your right. is mucus coming out of the snake ? gently squeez/press the head . do bubbbles,gunk,mucus come out? are walls slippery and have mucus on the wall from snake rubbing its head against it?

[guidofatherof5]

Great post Robert. The video was full of good information.
The dancing at the end was disturbing. I'll never get those images out of my head.:D

[mustang]

Great post Robert. The video was full of good information.
The dancing at the end was disturbing. I'll never get those images out of my head.:D
thank you (chewy is always getting bit for tv hahaha)

[ConcinusMan]

That's funny, when he's talking about it, the snake is getting ticked off and striking at him.

[tstill14]

First of all thanks to all of u for Ur responces, they brought down my stress level a ton. And as for how the are housed, they are housed in a old Sprint cell phone buffet case, with floresent bulbs so the bulbs don't get too hot and hurt them if they came in contact with the bulb. I spent a couple weeks snake proofing it. Any how they are on news paper that I layed down and I clean that every 2 days along with their water. They have 2 hides, one on the warm side and one on the cool side. And I use a heating pad in the cage but is covered with a thin layer of particle board so they can't touch the pad its self. The pad covers half the cage. And they are housed together.

However prior to that, they had the same set up in a clear rubermade contaimer about half the size of their current home. It had poor ventilation and condinsation build up pretty badly on the sides of the container. But that's why they got their nice home now. I thought the other home was too damp and small. They were only in there for a week tops though (5 days). But still maybe he or she aquired a lung cold of some sorts in that small amount of time.

Another thing I wanted to bring up was the fact that someone mentioned that I May have a male and female on my hands. but I'm not sure of that. I'm also not sure what kinda garter they are and if they are of the same class because the little guy has different markings then the bug guy but only on his sides. They do however sport the same color line down the middle of his or her backs but the little guy unlike the bug guy has no stripes on his sides. I have pics of both snakes and their home that I will try and post on my stupid smart phone, who desided that these devices were smart in the first place lol. Any how let me know what u all got to say and ill do my best here at home to better take care of my snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

Markings and color are highly variable with Northestern garters, (polymorphism) if that is indeed what you have. There are laterally (side) striped ones and ones with only dorsal (back) stripes too. There's even stripeless ones. Many colors and patterns, even among the same population or litter. Pics would be nice and would help to confirm species and sex.

[HazAnga]

I'd see about changing from the newspaper substrate, the ink can rub off and even cause problems, so finding another substrate could be a good idea.

[tstill14]

Here are the pics!

sorry they are so small, hopefully u can make everything out.

is there any way i could make them any bigger for you folks?

[ConcinusMan]

The pics are very small, making it difficult to say with certainty, but given the location you indicated earlier, I'd say that T. ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake) is the most likely candidate. The big one is definitely a female. Not sure about the other.

Here's another really old and large laterally striped female I found this year. She passed away not long after having a litter of babies for her new owner, Don Belnap.(ssssnakeluvr) Her babies are doing well. She's the orange striped snake sitting with Oregon Red Spotted garter snakes (T. sirtalis concinnus)

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4126/dscn0710large.jpg

Here's some variety of them, all found near each other:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2669/flicker015medium.jpg

My red stripe girl. She was gravid (pregnant) at the time:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8794/dscn0750large.jpg

Here she is with an erythristic (exceptionally red) male. Note the difference in body type between the male and female. Females are thicker and their tails taper abruptly.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1949/flicker002large.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

You can probably accurately sex them after reading this. Northwesterns are very easy to sex visually. Read this and then tell us what you think you have. I already know the big one is a girl for sure:

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

Unless your camera has a higher quality setting, increasing the size of those pics you already took, won't help. They'll just blur. No biggie. I still say you have northwesterns and one's a girl.

[tstill14]

Thank you again. I cant thank you enough for your help. And now that you have pointed out the type of garter, now I need to focus on the sex. I am looking at them rite now I'd have to say that the smaller snake is more then likely a male due to the lack in sudden tapper near the end of his tail. However I am no expert and I am going to put better/bigger pics up for you all to see more clearly. And befor i get off here i got one last question. assuming the smaller guy is a male how can i get them to bread? I have a Friend who loves garters and wants a baby to raise for her own. Is there anything I can do to make their home more comfortable or just more suitable for that to happen ? and they always! I repeat always! hang out together and relax in the same hide together, does that already mean they have bread? because the girl has deffinantly gotten bigger since I have owned her, but not to drastically.

NOTE: I don't have a computor at my appartment so the pics may have to wait till tomarrow, but ill do my best to drag my lazy butt back to my parents for access to a computor haha.

One more thing I would like to know is how can I get my snakes to eat fish, mice or other foods because they just turn their noses up to anything but earthworms. I would like to get them on a once a week mice diet but they refuse them every time. even pinkies or the ones that just opened their eyes. I even tried rubbing the mice in worms to sent them but that didnt work ether.

BTW thoes were some very nice looking snakes :D

[ConcinusMan]

Once northwesterns get accustomed to and get a preference for a specific food, (usually slugs, worms or both) it's very tough to get them to eat anything else. Very tough. They aren't easily fooled by scenting tricks. This is not really a problem as long as you have a year 'round supply. They are slow growing snakes that don't get very big and can live long healthy lives on worms alone but the fact that worms aren't very dense means they need to be fed often. Several times a week, even as adults.

As far as their breeding habits go, a female may mate in spring (after brumating), fall, or both but each female usually prefers to choose one season or the other. She often mates with several males in late Feb or early march, or she'll do so in the fall, say, October. With the fall breeders, it's the colder nights and shorter days that triggers breeding and it usually happens as they are gathering at the dens to spend the winter. The majority of them mate very early in the spring and give birth in July or August.

Yours is a wild caught female. She may very well already be gravid, or else is holding sperm from previous matings that is still viable. The sperm can be viable for up to 3 years so she could have babies during that 3 years, without mating. Normally you would have to keep the pair at around 50 degrees all winter and warm them in the spring. At that time they usually mate. The female can choose the timing of the birth regardless of when the mating happens. She can hold back ovulating until she's ready. I've seen northwesterns give birth first thing in the spring, and I've seen them give birth in late summer. In captivity, offspring can come at any time but mating usually takes place spring or fall, which means you would need to simulate the seasons.

This is what it looks like when a male is interested in mating with a female. In this case, it was fall but this girl didn't let him. Perhaps she'll change her mind in the spring or she'll skip mating and become gravid anyway. She is currently brumating. Piles, or "mating balls" consisting of hundreds if not thousands of northwesterns can be found at den entrances, doing this, in spring or fall. If you see that, you have found a den where they spend the winter.

q_7oq17j7v0

[tstill14]

I got one word for that. Wow . I dnt know that about snakes Untill now. 3 years, that's a long time. Very helpful thanks a lot.

So even being that it is super hard to get these westerns to eat anything else then there favored food, is there a good method you could recommend to get them on mice? I'm as persistant as they come so lay it on me.

[ConcinusMan]

Try dicing up worms, preferably night crawlers (stay away from the blood red striped worms, they are toxic) and also dice up some pinkies while still frozen, and mix them up with the worms really well, then allow them to thaw, mix well again. Offer them the mixture in a dish or tray. Northwesterns will usually eat around the pinky parts but it's worth a try. As far as fish goes, it's nearly impossible to disguise that using worms. It's far easier to get fish eaters to eat fish-scented rodents.

[kibakiba]

I got mine eating pinkies by cutting up night crawlers and simply placing a whole pinky on top of them in a dish. Mama started eating them like that and now she just takes them without any scenting. Snakey took a pinky with absolutely no scenting at all.

Also, both Mama and Snakey make clicking noises when they breathe, too. They always have. There's never been any mucous or bubbles around their mouth and nose or anything on the tank sides, so I assume that they're fine. They look healthy, move around a lot, eat very well, etc. I can hear it without putting them up to my ear, however, it's less noticeable when they aren't close to my head. Runt also has a faint click sound when she breathes, but she has to be close to my ear for me to really hear it. My concinnus don't click when they breathe, though. It seems weird that it's only my ordinoides (northwestern).

[ConcinusMan]

I got mine eating pinkies by cutting up night crawlers and simply placing a whole pinky on top of them in a dish. Mama started eating them like that and now she just takes them without any scenting. Snakey took a pinky with absolutely no scenting at all.

Also, both Mama and Snakey make clicking noises when they breathe, too. They always have. My concinnus don't click when they breathe, though. It seems weird that it's only my ordinoides (northwestern).

I noticed the same thing over years of keeping both. I never have heard it from concinnus' but it's very common to hear a clicking noise from healthy northwesterns. Nothing to be alarmed about.

[kibakiba]

I wasn't alarmed, I figured it was normal since they are all seemingly healthy. Sometimes Mama will come up to my ear and breath in it, it tickles a lot and its kinda cute because she'll just sit there on my shoulder. She once tried forcing herself into my ear... She's a bit on the... "coo coo" side. :D

[ConcinusMan]

And I was talking to the original poster of this thread and the forum members in general, not you specifically. I know you aren't alarmed by it.;)

[kibakiba]

And I was just stating that I wasn't alarmed. Maybe I wasn't even talking to you specifically.

[flickerfriend]

The pics are very small, making it difficult to say with certainty, but given the location you indicated earlier, I'd say that T. ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake) is the most likely candidate. The big one is definitely a female. Not sure about the other.

Here's another really old and large laterally striped female I found this year. She passed away not long after having a litter of babies for her new owner, Don Belnap.(ssssnakeluvr) Her babies are doing well. She's the orange striped snake sitting with Oregon Red Spotted garter snakes (T. sirtalis concinnus)

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4126/dscn0710large.jpg

Here's some variety of them, all found near each other:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2669/flicker015medium.jpg

My red stripe girl. She was gravid (pregnant) at the time:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8794/dscn0750large.jpg

Here she is with an erythristic (exceptionally red) male. Note the difference in body type between the male and female. Females are thicker and their tails taper abruptly.
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1949/flicker002large.jpg
Hey! is the red snake at the bottom Flicker? btw hows he doing with brumating?

[ConcinusMan]

He's not brumating. In my judgement he was at a very minimum body mass to be considered healthy in this pic. This was taken when I first got him. I introduced him to the female I intend to breed him to. He definitely likes her as you can see. He's very healthy and an awesome smart wonderful tame snake. She's brumating but I've been fattening up flicker with lots of slugs daily and I just now got him eating scented pinkies consistently. It's working. He's growing and gaining body mass. He'll get a short brumation with her soon. I just felt he wasn't ready in Oct.;)