Retained sperm possible second litter??

[infernalis]

My big normal eastern delivered a great litter of babies this summer, I have had her housed with another female (confirmed they both had babies within a week of each other)

She's getting fat again, has anyone ever heard of a second litter from retained sperm?? is it possible?

http://www.thamnophis.us/2010/preggo.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Good question. Does a gravid female that delivers babies still have retain sperm ?
I don't see why they couldn't. If she delivers another group I would say the answer is YES.
She is looking plump(gravid):D

[HazAnga]

I would have to say that Steve could be right. I have heard of it happening, but not as common occurrences. I also have to second Steve's observation as she does look very plump

[infernalis]

It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out.

I was about to brumate her, but in light of this I decided to up her basking temps a little.

it's been over a week since she ate, so it's unlikely that shes just fat from a full belly.

[guidofatherof5]

I think your right. Turn up the heat and let her cook.:D

[zooplan]

Garters could retain sperm for years!
If she is mated again, the fresh sperm will dominate, but it´s not 100% sure that all offspring would be sired from the actual mate.

There´s somthing deep inside me that like to repeat this:


If she is mated again, the fresh sperm will dominate, but
it´s not 100% sure that all offspring would be sired from the actual mate.

[infernalis]

she has not mated again, for sure, it's impossible.

if she is gravid again, it's from retained sperm.

she already produced one litter delivered in summer and has had NO male since.

[zooplan]

I believe, Wayne!

And there´s nothing to argue about a second litter from one mating,
it´s not only possible, I guess it´s occuring frequently.

For that you should also expect: if you mate your females to another male than the former season, some of the babies could still be descendants of the first!

[infernalis]

Sorry Udo, I was unclear what you meant.

Sometimes thing get lost in translation my friend. ;)

[zooplan]

Sometimes:eek:?

I´m pretty sure, that I only can translate the basic language, but no
dialect, sociolect, idiolect... so I have to be satisfied with the basic informations and sometimes there comes a smile to my face, when I´m wondering, if you native English writers could be sure about the entire meaning of all statements:D

[guidofatherof5]

Udo, are you saying that a female could mix the sperm from two matings?
Meaning the babies could have different fathers but all be born at the same time?

[gregmonsta]

Udo, are you saying that a female could mix the sperm from two matings?
Meaning the babies could have different fathers but all be born at the same time?

:cool: That is indeed what he's reporting.

@ Udo :rolleyes: you're English works for me, but then I have prior German to help me along. Surely it's much like my German these days :o. Although, I have been reading 'Jim Knopf' over the past week to help keep it alive.

[gregmonsta]

Just had a thought to help explain.

Garter girl has stored sperm. Breeding season comes along and she starts to ovulate. She then begins to fertilise the eggs as they are ready.

At the same time the vitellogin build up from ovulation attracts a new mate. After some sweet loving she then has new sperm to pass over the eggs (which may include new eggs that haven't been serviced by the stored sperm) thereby resulting in either a mixed brood or, if mated too late, an entire litter from the stored sperm.

Essentially there's no way of guarranteeing that a litter will entirely be from a new partner.

[guidofatherof5]

Do you know of any studies that prove this out.
I had no idea they would mix two mating.
I can understand dumping the sperm for a previous mating but not mixing two matings, amazing.

[gregmonsta]

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (http://www.jstor.org/pss/4600340) ;)

It makes sense .... a female may not be certain of finding a new mate .... so why wait :rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (http://www.jstor.org/pss/4600340) ;)

It makes sense .... a female may not be certain of finding a new mate .... so why wait :rolleyes:

I would love to read this entire study but will not pay $38.00 to do it.
Thanks for the link.

[gregmonsta]

I would love to read this entire study but will not pay $38.00 to do it.
Thanks for the link.

I know ;), I wouldn't either. There are many studies on this but I've not been successful finding a completely free PDF on this topic. I haven't tried for a wee whiley tho .... :rolleyes: might have to resume the hunt.

[zooplan]

:cool: sometimes I´m a little devil:D

Fresh sperm will fight the old, stored sperm, when a female mates again.
But you can´t be 100% sure, that this will be 100% successful.
So there is a scant chance that sperm might be mixed.
Nothing to worry about, if you don´t mate the female twice or plurally in one season!

@Greg You should never worry about your German, because each meaning is at least fixed twice in our language.

[ConcinusMan]

Garters could retain sperm for years!
If she is mated again, the fresh sperm will dominate, but it´s not 100% sure that all offspring would be sired from the actual mate.

There´s somthing deep inside me that like to repeat this:


If she is mated again, the fresh sperm will dominate, but
it´s not 100% sure that all offspring would be sired from the actual mate.


Same goes especially with T. ordinoides. Not only can they retain sperm for years and have multiple litters from one mating, but they usually retain sperm from several matings and have litters with several fathers. They also have a bad habit of mating but not ovulating until they feel like it so it makes it difficult to guess a delivery date. All this is a bit inconvenient for me because I am attempting to produce erythristics next year, or at least red striped babies. Won't be easy given their polymorphism, and their reproductive habits.:cool:

[Floof]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if a female Garter could retain sperm for a second litter. It's actually not uncommon for exactly that to happen in corn snakes; in them, it's even common enough to have it's own term--"double clutching." The potential for mixed paternity wouldn't surprise me, either: something that has already been observed in Corn snakes, Ball Pythons, and Boa Constrictors alike, among others.

So, Wayne, have you figured out yet whether or not she's actually gravid again? (For that matter, is "gravid" even the proper term for garters? Way too used to oviparous snakes... lol!) :)

[guidofatherof5]

Gravid would be correct:;)
Glossary of terms associated with gravidity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_terms_associated_with_gravidity)

[Floof]

Thank you very much for the clarification, Steve. :D

[HazAnga]

Lol, nice to know all that. Since I'll be breeding my corns and looking into other corns lol.