Long Time no post

[jamromhem]

Well after a long time away from the forums. (Life catches up to you some times) I decided that I needed to come say hello :P

My little checkered (lilly) is doing great and staying with my sister (Just next door) while I am staying with my mother while she has some health things sorted out.

I have had her for about a year and 4 months now (wild caught) and I would guess her age to be about a month over that.

She has graduated to small mice.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb460/jamromhem1/photo2.jpg

But alternates between those and worms. I occasionally get her a few minnows or small goldfish to play with in her water bowl. She enjoys the occasional live prey. I will try to get some pics of her not hiding in her hole, but she seems to enjoy her little get away.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb460/jamromhem1/photo.jpg

[zooplan]

Welcome back aboard,
uptdates are allways welcome

A more brilliant photo of your checkered in her skull
would be nice for this month´s photo contest;)

[jamromhem]

I can definitly do that.. I am sure she will fight me to let me get a picture of her.. I wish the one with the mouse was a better quality, but that was what could be managed when she jumped out to grab it and was dragging it into her hole.

I am starting to think she is the rare trap door snake.........

I will get what I can and see if there is a good one for the contest.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to see you back on the forum.
Looks like Lilly is doing well.

[jamromhem]

She seems to be happy. She likes to stay in the skull most of the time, but will come out when no one is looking :P

She will sit with me and relax (crawling under my shirt) for a bit till other animals come up and bother us :P

I cant wait till she starts getting bigger.

She didnt try to brumate last year, and doesnt look like she is going to try this year, but we will see.

Not having a male it doesnt matter to me if she decides to or not :P

From my understanding it doesnt make a difference health wise if she does or not. (please correct if wrong)

[guidofatherof5]

From my understanding it doesnt make a difference health wise if she does or not. (please correct if wrong)

You bring up an interesting question.

Does brumating or not brumating help or hurt the health and/or life of our snakes?

Does anyone know of any studies that address this question about brumation?

[jamromhem]

hmm perhaps those who have had garters for extremely long times might know as well.. perhaps some that are pets, and some the breed?

Can someone who doesnt brumate all of their snakes tell a difference in them?

[Stefan-A]

You bring up an interesting question.

Does brumating or not brumating help or hurt the health and/or life of our snakes?

Does anyone know of any studies that address this question about brumation?
It's definitely an interesting question. I suppose one could compare the mortality rate among those that brumated and those that didn't and see if there's a statistically significant difference between the two groups.

[jamromhem]

I guess another thing to consider with this is the brumation with mating.. so there are 3 categories

1. nob brumated
2. brumated no breeding
3. Brumated with breeding.

Perhaps breeding helps them lol

What would be the "average" lifespan to consider these to?

[Stefan-A]

Four categories, in that case: #4. Breeding, not brumated.

The average lifespan is not relevant. If there's a difference, it would show up in the mortality rate (and potentially in clutch sizes and mortality rates among the offspring).

Now we just need a few hundred snakes of the same species and locality and offer them identical housing and identical care (apart from the brumation). I may have overlooked something else, but that's not really relevant at this point. These types of studies don't get done because the results aren't interesting to anyone except those who keep these snakes as pets.

[jamromhem]

lol I know someone with a ranch full of radix's :P

[ConcinusMan]

Four categories, in that case: #4. Breeding, not brumated.

The average lifespan is not relevant. If there's a difference, it would show up in the mortality rate (and potentially in clutch sizes and mortality rates among the offspring).

Now we just need a few hundred snakes of the same species and locality and offer them identical housing and identical care (apart from the brumation). I may have overlooked something else, but that's not really relevant at this point. These types of studies don't get done because the results aren't interesting to anyone except those who keep these snakes as pets.

It is my opinion that keeping garter snakes warm year round and in such a manner as to enhance their health and more importantly, growth rate, actually shortens their lives. I think this is why people are under the impression that 10 or 12 years old lifespan in captivity is normal and a pretty long life. I beg to differ.

Keeping a pair of concinnus as they would normally live in the wild, (4-6 months active season, brumating and inactive the rest of the year) the result was that they grew slowly, much slower than your average captive, but they lived beyond 17 years old.

This is of course completely unproven. I don't actually know that the way I kept them (some sort of winter rest or slow down nearly every year) had anything to do with their long lives. It's just a hypothesis.

It certainly doesn't seem to harm them to skip the winter rest. Checkereds are a species that doesn't brumate in the wild in the warmer parts of their range anyway.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have had garters live over 10 years (wild caught as adults) without cooling :D

[ConcinusMan]

My point was the accelerated growth more so than the winter rest. I just think that the faster they reach maximum size, the shorter their lifespan. At least with some species. If they continue to grow throughout their lives, they don't have any growing left to do at 3 and half feet. Also, yours were already adults so obviously they weren't raised without winter rest their entire lives and they probably were not maxed out size-wise the entire 10+ years.