Uniting erythristic Eastern strains

[zooplan]

I´ve bred an Surf City male to a St. Matthews female,
although the habitats, where their mothers were caught are not in far distant, they have conspicuous different patterns and colours.
This is what they´ve produced together:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/udos_erys2010.JPG
A lot of the siblings of their parents discovered only very few redish colour
or no at all, but most of these showing up first red after only 3 month and I´m expecting them all to shed again soon.
They have redoubled size and weight yet and remain exceeding feeders:D

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful healthy looking snakes, Udo.;)

[infernalis]

I wonder if those are relatives to the ones I have... Did the parents originate from Scott?

Great looking group Udo.

[gregmonsta]

Very nice indeed :D

[BUSHSNAKE]

Awesome, i can see some nice ones!

[tennfan56]

Are any of them for sale?

[zooplan]

I wonder if those are relatives to the ones I have... Did the parents originate from Scott?
Yes, I´ve aquired those in 2008 and hold back the best three,
two St. Matthes females and a Surf City male.
This is the mother of the clutch.
http://zooplan.net/images/erybreeder2010.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

oh wow, she's really pretty. They all look a bit emaciated though, don't they?:rolleyes: You're starving them to death!:p

[infernalis]

The patterning on the back is why I asked, looks familiar.

[charles parenteau]

Wow those garter snake are just too awesome!!look great

[mustang]

Dang thats awesome!

[infernalis]

Are any of them for sale?

Planning a trip to Germany? ;)

Wait till spring, they will be available here in the States.

[zooplan]

Are any of them for sale?
I will offer some of them in Hamm.;)
But like Wayne indicated, it will be expensive to ship or fetch them to
Pennsylvania.
Found a juvenile photo of the father:
http://zooplan.net/images/scerymgrau.jpg
He coloured up a little more since then.

[zooplan]

This is the brightest beauty of the clutch (at the moment)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/ery2010_001.JPG

According to my experiences with raising its parents I´m sure it´ll still colour up during the next months.

[zooplan]

If never kept another kind of garter with that big difference in apperance:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/ery2010_002.JPG
They have started shedding like a contest: two shed yesterday evening,
three tonight and one is hurrying right now;)

[guidofatherof5]

Not an homely one in the bunch.
After shed photos are always welcome.;)

[Jeff B]

Nice looking group of fat healthy babies, couple of the lighter colored ones look especially nice to me.

[zooplan]

The picture was taken right after feeding but they have tripled their weight with empty stomachs as well. All twelve together were 112 Gramm (4oz) yesterday before feeding. They are feeding like pigs and in a stage of rapid growth. While I´m waiting for the stragglers to shed, it seems that the biggest siblings start preparing for the next shed.
Maybe I can get a good shot later today or tomorrow.

[zooplan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/ery-clutch.JPG
I guess each sibling will become its kind of red in a spectrum from auburn to brick red, but at least one is preparing for next shed all the time;)

[guidofatherof5]

That is a very nice looking group of snakes. I'll take them. When can you deliver:D

[zooplan]

Oh, I add your application to the list,
but you must come here for the final interview ;)

[guidofatherof5]

If I could I would.
There are many forum members I wish I could meet personally.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Me too, so I beat the crud out of them.

Of course, I kid.:p


Maybe:rolleyes:

[gregmonsta]

I want to meet everyone :D .... on another note I'm planning a trip to Germany next year Udo .... fancy meeting up? :D

[zooplan]

Terraristika fair in Hamm will be at march 12th again.
EGSA-membership-meeting will be in the beginning of April
in Rheinbach only 50,4 km (31,3 miles) or 35 minutes from international Cologne Bonn airport (cgn).

[gregmonsta]

I have a feeling it might be later in the year for me.

[jamromhem]

those are all gorgeous :P I would love a pair myself :P A female would look gorgeous running around with my checkered :P

[Gijs & Sabine]

Wow, Udo :eek: they look amazing!!
Can't wait to see them in real life ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Wait, this isn't real life? Somebody forgot to tell me that.:p

[zooplan]

Hey guy,
your 38 years now,
that should be old enough to know about the difference
and young enough to recognize still.

Have you ever tried to feel out a Garter Snake´s scales on a computer screen?
Have you seen like sunbeams changing scale colours in the forum?

[ConcinusMan]

Hey guy,
your 38 years now,
that should be old enough to know about the difference
and young enough to recognize still.

Have you ever tried to feel out a Garter Snake´s scales on a computer screen?
Have you seen like sunbeams changing scale colours in the forum?

38? Thanks for setting me straight. I kept thinking I turned 40 this year.:rolleyes: No I haven't seen sunbeams or changing scale colors in the forum (with the exception of one particular nebraska christmas albino radix) but I think that's because I didn't go mushroom picking or OD'ing on zanax this year.:p

[zooplan]

I donate those two years to you:D

I thought you told:
That you started keeping Garter Snakes at the age of seven.
and
You´re keeping Garter Snakes since 79 in the last century.
So I counted to
.
.
.
38

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, did some sleuthing did you? For little old me? I'm impressed.

I may have misstated. Northwesterns since I moved to WA in 1977. I discovered and started keeping concinnus in 1979.;)

[zooplan]

I´ve remembered:D
Did some sleuthing in my old threads few days ago and found some funny things too, and wondered: "How many posts had those guys read and written, when they post that?"

[zooplan]

Have I lately told you... shedding is a miracle!:eek:
I love it! I must share this:

http://zooplan.net/erybreeder2010f1.JPG
:cool:
sweet seventeen (weeks)

http://zooplan.net/erybreeder2010.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snakes, Udo.
I bet they'd get along fine with some radixes. Hint, hint.:D

[brain]

Have I lately told you... shedding is a miracle!:eek:
I love it! I must share this:

http://zooplan.net/erybreeder2010f1.JPG
:cool:
sweet seventeen (weeks)

http://zooplan.net/erybreeder2010.jpg

So Udo this is a common T. sirtalis sirtalis coloring and markings?

What a great coloring. Is this something you have breed to show like this?

Can someone who raises these babies educate me? I would call this “designer” snake colors.

The more I see of the Thamnophis the more I think my snake room is not big enough

[ConcinusMan]

Not "designer"... this is a natural morph found in the wild and is erythristic if I am not mistaken. A "snow" would be "designer" however.

[ssssnakeluvr]

awesome eastern!!!! :eek:

[ConcinusMan]

oh wait. Duh. The title of the thread confirms they are erythristic. Now that's a perfectly natural morph. Now if you could produce a snake that was albino AND erythristic, now that would be a designer morph.

[brain]

TY

[zooplan]

I´m my oppinion these should be seen as and intergradients of a natural occuring and a designer morph.
Erythristics are occuring in the wild, but they would not migrate 50 miles to find the most red mate.
Another example:
We are selecting redsides for four or five generations now. We´ve started by mating Redsided Garters from different populations. They were hand picked from all imported snakes in the petshops. Of course we only took the nicest, brightest most red avaliable specimens. If´you now compare Steve´s fotos from Narcisse to the breeders, I´ve posted in the "next seasons breeding project" thread, you´ll see very differing `morphs´.

[ConcinusMan]

I suppose so.

[zooplan]

http://zooplan.net/DSCF8858.JPG

These six siblings will move soon to spend the rest of their life with Sabine!

[guidofatherof5]

They will be in good hands.

[brain]

IWe are selecting redsides for four or five generations now.


Four to five years breeding ... now, that is commitment.

Nevertheless, then I guess Scott and Alan like your self do the same. I’m just a hobbyist collector. :)

Note to self ... start looking for tan Easterns

[zooplan]

Five generations are correlating to 12 years continuance in that project;)

I´m a hobbyist too, but collector and allocator! :D

[charles parenteau]

Very very nice garter snake congrat!!One question why do we called them erythristic to me it's brown ....not red!?

[ConcinusMan]

Good question but only some of them look brown to me. Besides that, depending on the presence of other pigments, erythristic doesn't always necessarily mean a snake will be very red.

[zooplan]

Very very nice garter snake congrat!!One question why do we called them erythristic to me it's brown ....not red!?
Thank you, Charles, what do you think about their mother?
That is, what they will become like.

There is a taxonomy for color morphs but it does not meet with all occuring patterns. Some misstated declarations have made their way to common usage. And some rules are predestinated to missunderstanding!
From the correct use of declaration rules: Flames and erythristic should be
called hyper erythristic and only snakes with a completly red pattern could be named erythristic.

[charles parenteau]

Tanks that answer my question!!The mother is very nice!!All your garter snake are awesome by the way!!

[Gijs & Sabine]

http://zooplan.net/DSCF8858.JPG

These six siblings will move soon to spend the rest of their life with Sabine!

Thanks for posting this, Udo!! (I have to check the forum more often :o)
They look amazing and I hardly can wait for next week....
I'm looking forward to see how they will develop the coming time.

[zooplan]

http://www.zooplan.net/images/erymales101.jpghttp://www.zooplan.net/images/eryfemales101.jpg
These are my hold back males and females from the first clutch.
I´m happy that I have to feed only six of them anymore.
They seem to be hungry all time and growing fast.
The second clutch (4,8) started to color up,
but I still can not imagine to give away one of these six to keep one of those.

[guidofatherof5]

They are beautiful, Udo.
Just keep all of them.:D

[gregmonsta]

Top snakes ;)

[charles parenteau]

Jesus christ!!!!!!!!!!!!just wow!!

[zooplan]

They are beautiful, Udo.
Just keep all of them.:D

I would do for sure,
just send me an extra room for extra enclosures ;)

don´t need to be by air mail,
I would wait some weeks :D

[ConcinusMan]

I have a better idea. I'll make room here and you can send them to me.:p

[MasSalvaje]

Very cool Udo! Erys are by far my favorite Eastern morph, it is better than Christmas when shedding time comes!

-Thomas

[ConcinusMan]

Tell me about it. This erythristic T. ordinoides is a stunner after shedding.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2482/flickersbuddy002medium.jpg

[zooplan]

Thank you Thomas,
it´s very exciting to see them colouring up.
The main goal of my breeds are extreeem red Redsided Garter Snakes,
but I love the colour of erythristic Easterns, because it reminds me of their birthing colour!

@Richard
Your erythristic Northwestern is absolutely extraordinary, we´ll be excited to see the colours of his first descendants.

[zooplan]

http://www.zooplan.net/images/erymale201101.jpg

[BUSHSNAKE]

looking good Udo!

[guidofatherof5]

Wow, let me get my sunglasses on for that one.
Did I mention WOW!

[zooplan]

The males:
http://www.zooplan.net/erybreeder2010m010611.jpg
weighted 14; 18 and 22 gramm today (1/2; 2/3 and 3/4 ounce)

The females are growing ahead:
http://www.zooplan.net/erybreeder2010f010611.jpg
weighted 28;28 and 34 gramm ( 1;1 and 1 1/5 ounce)

[guidofatherof5]

They are gorgeous. The girls that is.
The boys are handsome and look like they want to get into trouble.
Die Jungen schauen schelmisch.:D I hope I got that right.;)

[zooplan]

The boys are looking impish?
They were excited, wondering what´s going on and waiting for the right moment to flit into three different directions.
That´s what they did right after the shot.:D

[reptileparadise]

Those aren't bad Udo ;)

Great looking bunch! I can only hope mine will become just as nice as those!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

awesome!!!

[Mommy2many]

Great bunch of kids you have there!

[zooplan]

Looks like my erythristic project is going on:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/DSCF96921.JPG
I never believed that a snakes´ color would change after 2 two years,
or am I blinded by her fatness:confused::D

[guidofatherof5]

She looks awesome.
I'd never kick her out of bed for eating night crawlers:D

[zooplan]

She looks awesome.
I'd never kick her out of bed for eating night crawlers:D
I wonder if she would leave bed for that stuff...
she´s feding on adult mice:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[brain]

I wonder what it would cost in S/H and the pricing of the animal to get these guys shipped to the US.
Just stunning.
Steve want to share some expenses?? :D:(:D:(:D:(

[zooplan]

Hey Michael,
if you prefere the best for your snakes check out this:
International Pricing | pet travel info | Pet Relocation (http://www.petrelocation.com/our-services/how-our-pricing-works/international-pricing) :D

I know there are cheaper options, but have never organized an international shippment.:o

[Joachim]

Beautiful!

[guidofatherof5]

I wonder what it would cost in S/H and the pricing of the animal to get these guys shipped to the US.
Just stunning.
Steve want to share some expenses?? :D:(:D:(:D:(

Yes, but the snakes stays with me for the first 15 years.
I meant to have 2 "big grin" emotioncons after my post by you used up all the images allowed in your post (frown)(frown)(big grin)

[ConcinusMan]

I never believed that a snakes´ color would change after 2 two years

That's right about the time that the most dramatic change happened (2yrs old) and Amy went from Iowa albino to Iowa Christmas albino dang near overnight.;)

[ConcinusMan]

I wonder what it would cost in S/H and the pricing of the animal to get these guys shipped to the US.


The S/H cost is only part of the hurdle when shipping into the U.S. Shipping to Canada is easy, but shipping from Canada to the U.S. is a nightmare to do legally. You're much better off is someone is willing to drive it over the border and then ship.

[brain]

Hey Michael,
if you prefere the best for your snakes check out this:
International Pricing | pet travel info | Pet Relocation (http://www.petrelocation.com/our-services/how-our-pricing-works/international-pricing) :D

I know there are cheaper options, but have never organized an international shippment.:o


WOW…I mean WOW.
“Our prices can typically start off at a minimum of $2500-$3000 USD for Door-to-Door services for a small animal moving internationally.”
I paid that much for my Womas. And just one is like 100 times the size of a garter. Colors …well now that’s a toss up J
OK thanks for the info Steve. Maybe if I started like you did and then in ten years I could have an eye popper like yours. So I’m dreamin

[brain]

Yes, but the snakes stays with me for the first 15 years.
I meant to have 2 "big grin" emotioncons after my post by you used up all the images allowed in your post (frown)(frown)(big grin)

Well I wasn’t sure if that’s a good thing. Steve lead me to a pricing … and it really made cry.
I’ll just have to be happy to look at Steve’s pics and maybe find someone here state sides with some good lookers.

[brain]

Planning a trip to Germany? ;)

Wait till spring, they will be available here in the States.
A bit cryptic … so it’s spring? Any luck? ;)

[zooplan]

Have you seen the new offers of Scott?
There are some more breeders with similar projects.
I don´t know, if anybody else brought "Surf City" and "St. Matthews" together.