Chilled out.

[gregmonsta]

:( 4 snakes packed off to the kitchen cupboard for brumation .... how dull :o

Still .... it'll make me apprechiate them more in January :D

Process followed - Nill by mouth for two weeks
4 days gradual temp decrease
Into Kitchen cupboard and currently at 15C (this should gradually reduce to about 8C minimum if the last figures are anything to go by).

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I thought half of my snakes had gone off-feed, but it seems that most of them had just skipped a meal for whatever reason. The one snake that's not eating, is looking suspiciously fat, too.

[Mommy2many]

Ooohhh, babies on the way, Stefan???

[Stefan-A]

Ooohhh, babies on the way, Stefan???
I hope not. She hasn't been with a male since she gave birth a year and a half ago.

[mustang]

long wait...like in sanctuary with dr.magnus keeping ashlee in the womb for centeries...i know how much you love that show stephan so enjoy the analogy

[gregmonsta]

I hope not. She hasn't been with a male since she gave birth a year and a half ago.

:rolleyes: that might not stop her from trying.

Another interesting observation of mine when weighing (again showing Fawn's crazy growth rate)

Suzy (2 year old radix) - 199g
Fawn (1 year old parietalis) - 176g

They are almost exactly the same length too.

[gregmonsta]

Temps down to 12C today :rolleyes:. Currently observed water-bowl soaking preference in T.radix.

[gregmonsta]

Temps 13C today. Suzy tried to come and say hello so I had to discourage her. Fawn's favourite spot is squished in between the waterbowls and the edge of the tub. When I lifted the waterbowl the little mare tried to claim the space as her own :rolleyes:.

[guidofatherof5]

Last night we had our first snow of the season. It was a heavy, wet snow. We got about 2 inches. Most of it's gone already.
The wild radix season is officially over. I hate this time of the year.

[zooplan]

Yesterday was very warm hear too about 60°F and we´ll have no snow for at least another week or two, than maybe at the end of the month or beginnig of Dezember it might snow but all the wight will be gone untill Chrismas again.

[gregmonsta]

Temps 13C ... I had to evict the boys from the waterbowl today :P .... it was a shame as it looked rather cute.

[ConcinusMan]

:( 4 snakes packed off to the kitchen cupboard for brumation .... how dull :o

Still .... it'll make me apprechiate them more in January :D

Process followed - Nill by mouth for two weeks
4 days gradual temp decrease
Into Kitchen cupboard and currently at 15C (this should gradually reduce to about 8C minimum if the last figures are anything to go by).

That's pretty much exactly what I did. They are resting "comfortably" at around 8-9 degrees C now. About half of them gave me no choice. After pounding down the food furiously during late summer through fall, they simply refused to eat for 2-3 weeks so some of them, I had to brumate even though I hadn't planned on it.:cool:

[gregmonsta]

:) missed the last couple of updates.
12C last weekend and down to 9C on Saturday.
Brumation quarter residents seem to be doing well in their slow-motion world.
Looking forward to warming them up again in Jan.

[ConcinusMan]

Their "slow motion world" that's funny. It is rather interesting to watch their tongues flick in slow-motion. Pretty cool. Hey! I just realized, what a great way to get some tongue pics!

I just checked on them. All is well, 49.1 degrees F.

[gregmonsta]

It was pretty funny when I saw it first, even when I had been told to expect it I was quite surprised by the effect ;).

[gregmonsta]

11C at the weekend and all seems well :). I'm really looking forward to 'wake up time' next weekend. I'm planning to take the boys out first. They'll be at room temp for the first day and then on a heatmat overnight. The girls I'll bring out two days later and I'll be pairing them with the boys while their in their 'room temp phase'.
Fingers crossed I'll witness some mating activity ... but I really can't wait to see them in their enclosures again :D

[ConcinusMan]

Just doesn't seem like long enough. I've never been able to get a breeding response from a garter with such a short brumation. About half the time, anything shorter than 60 days doesn't even get the non-feeders eating again, let alone breeding. There are pheremones/hormones that gradually build up during brumation and those are what gives them the breeding response, and it takes time to build them up.

[gregmonsta]

Just doesn't seem like long enough. I've never been able to get a breeding response from a garter with such a short brumation. About half the time, anything shorter than 60 days doesn't even get the non-feeders eating again, let alone breeding. There are pheremones/hormones that gradually build up during brumation and those are what gives them the breeding response, and it takes time to build them up.

:rolleyes: Considering that many European breeders I've met breed parietalis and all the others successfully with 2 months as a cooling period I guess we'll find out next week. I'd imagine WC being a trickier prospect.
Could be down to them having been part of long established captive lines. There's probably a certain amount of tolerance to the captive routine after several generations.
Then again I know of one WC red-sided that was never brumated and yet double-clutched for its owner repeatedly (as was probably quite happy not to face the chill of its home range ... possibly extatic :D).

[ConcinusMan]

Could be down to them having been part of long established captive lines. There's probably a certain amount of tolerance to the captive routine after several generations.
Then again I know of one WC red-sided that was never brumated and yet double-clutched for its owner repeatedly (as was probably quite happy not to face the chill of its home range ... possibly extatic :D).

Good points. Makes sense that snakes that are several generations removed from the wild would have been inadvertently selected for reproduction in the absence of long brumation or any brumation because, if that happens, then naturally, they are going to be making the next generation.

[gregmonsta]

We'll see what happens ;). If it doesn't work out then I will try 3 months next year, I'm fairly certain it will happen though. Suzy is definately ready, producing slugs this year without brumation or male contact.
Fawn is the one I'm taking the chance on. But she's a good size ;)

[gregmonsta]

Blood on the dancefloor in the parietalis tub :D. Looks like their honeymoon met with success during the night.
Light spotting of blood in the carefresh and some residual blood on Fawn's vent. Slithers curled up in the corner, completely disinterested and possibly exhausted/afterglowy :rolleyes:.
I brought the girls up gradually to 18C yesterday prior to introducing the warmed up males (20C). Slithers started to follow Fawn around like a lovesick puppy straight away.
Nothing definate to report from the radix as yet. J does seem to find Suzy interesting. Their spending time together but I can't report any tell-tale clues as yet :o.
Keeping them all paired until tomorrow. Then planning further introductions for the radix on a weekly basis and I'll give the parietalis another shot in a couple of weeks.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like babies are going to be on the way at your place.

[gregmonsta]

Here's hoping ;)

[gregmonsta]

Interesting observation - Fawn has been spending the evenings in the waterbowl and the daytimes on the heat. I wonder if this is a reflection on behaviour in the wild? Where night time temps would naturally still be low and warrant seeking water for temperature control.
Just a thought :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Water absorbs heat during the day and loses it very slowly at night. I think this is why some snakes will do that. The water can be warmer than the surrounding air at night.

[gregmonsta]

Well there all back in general population now :D .... it's nice to see them in their place again :D

[gregmonsta]

Weightloss statistics: Loss, Before, After

Males
Slithers - 1g, 43g, 42g
J - 0g, 57g, 57g

Females
Fawn - 9g, 173g, 164g
Suzy - 18g, 199g, 181g