Acrylic enclosure

[HazAnga]

I'm going to be making an acrylic enclosure for-well not my garters unfortunatly, but maybe one to come- my corn snakes. It's going to be 48"Long 18"Deep 24"Tall with a piece of frosted acrylic in the middle as a divider. So it's going to be a 2 in 1 tank, with screening on the top and doors on the front. I will be getting the materials from work this week and cutting them at some point and assembly will be next weekend. Setup will be maybe the Sunday if assembly is 100% completed. I will take pix as it is being built.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a great project.
Looking forward to seeing the photo progress.

[mustang]

ahh i remember the process of putting lass together its long and full of screw ups....good luck

[Stefan-A]

Good luck. Acrylic wouldn't be my material of choice.

[HazAnga]

why not Acrylic Stefan? I know it can scratch etc. But I'm getting material from work. and I'm putting aluminum screening for the top, so lights can go on the top. I've been even thinking about instead of a full acrylic door, I've been thinking about putting the aluminum screening in some of the door as well, mind you it would allow for more heat to escape. But it will allow me to easily drill some small holes in the side and add a fan to either side allowing proper air circulation. I was even thinking of adding a built in hide or something.

[Stefan-A]

Well, there you have one reason why I'd avoid it. It scratches easily. People also tend to have problems with warping doors, walls and lids.

[HazAnga]

But if there was enough air circulation and its just for corn snakes. So there might be a 50w heat light... but that's all for heat. Other then a UTH.

[ConcinusMan]

UTH's are intended for glass and it says so in the instructions. As for the acrylic, in a few months, perhaps a year, you'll likely hate it and toss it. Even with the most gentle cleaning, you'll be looking at your snakes through a "fog" in no time. Go to any pet store and you'll see that most don't carry much in the way of acrylic aquariums, and for good reason. They aren't very popular, for all the reasons already mentioned.

[HazAnga]

Even so, the build will still proceed its not going to cost me a thing in the line of material. The only thing I've had to buy is the adhesive kit and the screening and that's a grand total of about $25.

[Stefan-A]

UTH's are intended for glass and it says so in the instructions.
That depends on the type. Most of mine are ones that can be used safely with plastic, according to the instructions.

[ConcinusMan]

How thick is this acrylic you're using anyway?

[mustang]

make sure you get aquarium safe ****...( the sealent stuff)(hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah a
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
i said something that could be made into an inuendo)

[ConcinusMan]

Glad you enjoyed yourself even if nobody has any idea what the heck your point is.

[mustang]

Glad you enjoyed yourself even if nobody has any idea what the heck your point is.
i did thank you very much:D(c*ck the stuff to hold glass together and is water tight!)

[Stefan-A]

Glad you enjoyed yourself even if nobody has any idea what the heck your point is.
I'm enjoying it quite a bit here. Mostly because the only reason why nobody has any idea what his point is, is because he spelled the word wrong and turned it into a censored "dirty word".

[ConcinusMan]

Ummm... I assume he meant to say "caulk" ? but spelled it like a male bird?

It's "Caulk" robert. No innuendo there.:cool:

[mustang]

OH CR@P my english teacher would be sooo mad i didnt know how to spell it haha i thought it was the other one hahaha sorry (thanks for spelling correction :) )

[Mommy2many]

Sorry, still laughing...
This was just too funny!

[mustang]

Sorry, still laughing...
This was just too funny!
yaya enjoy my mistakes....wow moms coming down to see what im laughing at so hard....EVERYONES GONNA KNOW :D

[ConcinusMan]

OH CR@P my english teacher would be sooo mad i didnt know how to spell it haha i thought it was the other one hahaha sorry (thanks for spelling correction :) )

Spelling? Not only that, the "L" is not silent. The two words aren't even pronounced exactly the same.:cool:

Now stop playing with your snakes and go study!:p

I'm just razzin ya.;)

[HazAnga]

Lol nice guys. And the sealant I'm using is not any kind of sillycone (hahahaa) it is actually a chemical compound that kind of melts the pieces together. Silicone will not stick to acrylic and therefore making that unsafe and just waiting to fall apart in the following days. It is safe for reptiles and I'm using 1/4" material.

[mustang]

Lol nice guys. And the sealant I'm using is not any kind of sillycone (hahahaa) it is actually a chemical compound that kind of melts the pieces together. Silicone will not stick to acrylic and therefore making that unsafe and just waiting to fall apart in the following days. It is safe for reptiles and I'm using 1/4" material.
did you know silicone isnt very boyaunt? (i know i misspelled it) i mean since were on the dark humor conversations anyway:D its amazing what you learn in enviormental science

[gregmonsta]

The two words aren't even pronounced exactly the same..;)

Depends on your accent :rolleyes:

[HazAnga]

Spelling? Not only that, the "L" is not silent. The two words aren't even pronounced exactly the same.:cool:

Now stop playing with your snakes and go study!:p

I'm just razzin ya.;)


Depends on your accent :rolleyes:

lol... yeah i guess depending on a persons accent it could said differently or the same. It would also depend on how quick you say it lol.

[HazAnga]

well... guys... it's started. I've got the back the bottom and the divider put together, it's all i could do tonight, cut the pieces at work and I have to rest (the clear) pieces are getting cut tomorrow. So here's a couple pix
at first I was going to put it so that it was 18" deep and 24" high...
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0012.jpg
but now I'm thinking making it 24" deep and 18" high, more floor space
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0013.jpg
tell me what ya'll think. probably my second idea am i right.?

[guidofatherof5]

It will be interesting to see the finished product.
How are you going to ventilate it?

[HazAnga]

I plan on putting a group of 12 holes in a small cross on either side of the enclosure and then in the divider as well. But on the sides of the enclosure i'm thinking of mounting a fan on each side that will eventually maybe be on a timer of some sort. The top will have a hole cut out on either side and I'll be using Aluminum screening, with bolts and steel "L's" for the corners for extra strength. I couldn't find what i wanted for around the whole edge of the opening for the screen, but beggars can't be choosers. Doors on the front, obviously, I just have to cut the hinges at work on the band saw (found out cutting acrylic hinges with a miter saw doesn't do so well... I'm lucky i didn't end up with anything embedded into my face.

[HazAnga]

tomorrow it should be pretty much completed with the exception of the fans. I'll also have to get another light ballast and purchase the large UTH (which i asked if it was safe to apply to the bottom of the acrylic and it is) Decorations, substrate, water bowls, hides, will be added tomorrow night or Thursday.

[mustang]

cant wait for pics...ud better have done a good job :) after the long hell we(i) :rolleyes:went through on this thread

[HazAnga]

lmao... yeah yeah. you just wait for the completed finish product, which might have to wait till I move, but it might be done by this weekend you never know... I hate leaving things incomplete so chances are by this weekend it'll be 99%... and will always be 99% cuzz a tank is never finished, there's always something to improve upon :)
And Btw... here's what'll be going in the tanks... I know there not garters... but ohh well.
My Female Okeetee Corn (very beautiful)
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Okeetees/IMAG0001.jpg
and my male Okeetee
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Okeetees/IMAG0119.jpg

[HazAnga]

here's the front after i cut out the holes for the doors
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0014.jpg
and then the top with the holes cut out for the screen to go later on
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0015.jpg
here's the front with the doors and the pieces i cut to keep the doors from swinging all the way in, and also keeps a good tight seal, so nothing can git out
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0016.jpg
the front isn't attached yet in this pic but she's the pieces I cut to go on it
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0018.jpg
a closeup of those pieces
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0022.jpg
here's the left side going on, with the holes where later a fan will be attached
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0025.jpg

[HazAnga]

here's the right side attached (cat decided to join in with the picture taking
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0017.jpg
And here's the doors attached (I messed one up by putting the hinges on the wrong side so that the door would fall off when opened
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0028.jpg
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0027.jpg
And that is all i have right now, I'm going to buy a few things for the screen top because it wouldn't go on the way i was hoping so now I have to go out and buy more things!!! uggghh... hope you like the pix

[HazAnga]

well... after much pain staking work, it's completed (minus waterbowls, but that's tomorrow)
here are some more pix
everything on but the screen top, which i couldn't attach because the small bolts i had... well were to short (second trip to the hardware store needed)
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0029.jpg
now this is with the multch/vine/ hides/loops for vine and more (but no screen yet...)
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0030.jpg
now here's the screen tops I had to make. Remind me to find a different way to make a screen top next time I found a new hate doing this...
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0050.jpg
AND FINALLY!!!!! it's done here's a pic of both
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0031.jpg
The right side of it where the male is
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0034.jpg
and the left side where the female is
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMAG0033.jpg
I hope you all like the pix and maybe make an acrylic enclosure of your own, it really isn't all that hard, better then working with glass. So what it will eventually scratch up but that's only if you let it.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks nice.
The first thing the garters will do is poop all over the lower glass.
They're just giving it that lived in look.:D

[HazAnga]

Lol Steve its not for the garters it was for my corns, but I'm sure they'll do the same thing lol.

[zooplan]

Boah krass, would German teenagers shout about that, Nick.
It looks like your occupation must be very similar work, very professional.

[justme]

Nick, beautiful enclosures! I understand everyone's initial concerns and agree that glass holds up better. But I also had a strong feeling that you know what you were doing and the end result shows it. People pay big bucks to have an impressive show tank like yours and you made yours yourself! Amazing job! ;-)

[guidofatherof5]

Lol Steve its not for the garters it was for my corns, but I'm sure they'll do the same thing lol.

I bet you're right.
I moved some snakes around today. They spent the first hour pooping.:D

[infernalis]

They do that a lot.... It's like if I spend an hour scrubbing a cage, they have to poop all over it as soon as I put them back.

Very impressive looking cage..:cool: actually VERY impressive.

[HazAnga]

I'm actually impressed myself... almost to the point of "it can't be my work!" lol but now it's almost making me want to make one for the garter, but they have an awesome cage themselves.
I purchased the book "The Art of Keeping Snakes" and hoping to learn something from it about different ways to setup and build enclosures. I love Gregmonsta's Tank stack, something to think about for the future, and maybe some more garters to go with it ;)

[Floof]

VERY impressive work! It's lovely, and I'm sure they both love the new accommodations!

I'm waaay late to this thread, I know, but there's a couple things I want to mention.

First, good call turning it around so the floor is 2x2 ft! You must remember that corn snakes get significantly larger than garter snakes, and, likewise, need more space. The 24x24" floor is down there at what's considered "bare minimum" for a fully grown adult corn snake, but it works and gives them "enough" space. 24x18" would have warranted a later upgrade in enclosure size, as those dimensions would be simply too small to accommodate a corn snake. (Speaking from experience here--after owning a total 18 corn snakes, I can say with confidence that anything less than a 20L (30x12") or a similarly dimensioned 24x24" enclosure would be inadequate, and even those sizes can be quite cramped to the right snake, which is why they're the "minimums" and not the "recommended"!)

Could I ask why you're going to install fans? It's not a necessary move, and may only stress the snakes out (constant "wind") and cool down the enclosure too much... I could see hooking fans into a good thermostat set to "cooling" so they kick on when things get too warm, but I somehow doubt that's what the point of them is? There should be plenty of air exchange through the screen tops, the drilled holes in the side, and what airflow is coming in through the cracks around the door.

On the note of the UTH, the reason their packaging very often says to NOT use on plastic is because the manufacturers know how hot they'll get!!! And, trust me on this one, they DO get hot enough to KILL your snakes!!! I have personally measured assorted ZooMed heat pads, the most commonly used UTH on the market, at anywhere from 140-160F, after only being run 1 to 12 hours, respectively, and both measurements were even taken in substrate-free environments (pre-set up, and in a bare floor roach tub), so without the heat-retaining properties of substrate... So, with the layer of substrate, you're looking at the potential of these heat pads cooking your snakes at 200*F. Considering Corn snakes need only a "basking" temperature of 85*F, and that temperatures over 90*F can be dangerous to them, that's easily more than enough to kill them.

To keep heat pads from getting dangerously hot, you need some sort of controlling device. For a very cheap fix in a very stable-temperature room/habitat (something yours are not with heat lamps on just during the day), rheostats (fancy name for a lamp dimmer) can be used. However, these need to be constantly watched and adjusted, using accurate digital thermometers (probes placed UNDER the substrate, directly on top of the glass--or, acrylic--above the heat pad) to be sure it's not getting too hot. The other, much more preferable alternative is a thermostat. Thermostats have a probe which you place directly on the heat pad (like you would a digital thermometer). You set the desired temperature on the dial, and it will turn the heat pad on and off as necessary to keep the heat pad only at the desired temperature.

If your heat pad is properly controlled, there is no risk of the acrylic, plastic, or whatever other material melting or otherwise warping. After all, if it were to melt/warp at 85*F, you would never be able to use the material in a region that has a warm day! If you look up the melting temperatures of plastic, you'll find every product used for animal enclosures, storage/food tubs, etc has a melting point of over 200*C (something like 400F?).

What I'm saying, to the OP as well as anyone else who reads this and was not already aware of the serious risks, is if you don't already have a thermostat for every heat pad, get one!!! It's direly important. Your options are many, keeping in mind a thermostat's price usually reflects its quality... While a $30 ZooMed Repti-Temp 500R is known to fail within the first year of use, a $100 Herpstat or similar, high-end proportional thermostat may last through years and years of use without a single malfunction (not that you shouldn't still monitor them, as thermostat failures can still happen no matter what make/model thermostat you're using).

Also, Nick, the only heat source your corn snakes need is the UTH.. They are very cold-tolerant and tend toward very terrestrial (not saying they don't climb, as they do; they just don't spend significant amounts of time, or, specifically, their digestion periods strictly in the trees). They are also a crepuscular/nocturnal species, meaning they don't naturally come out to "bask" in the sunlight, rather collect all their heat energy from the sun-heated nature around them after the sun goes down. Though you can use a heat lamp if you feel the need, all they really do is dry out the habitat and put your snakes at risk of overheating if the room gets too warm and the habitat is too small for the snake to escape to a cooler place (part of why heat pads are preferable, since they only heat a portion of the floor). I personally only use a low wattage fluorescent tube to light my snakes' habitats (keeping in mind I only keep crepuscular/nocturnal species at the moment), if I choose to light them. I've actually found my corn snake is more likely to come out and lounge around in the open if there's no bright light source... (Can't say for other corns, as I never used lighting on any of my other corns when I had them.)

Now that all of that is said... I apologize to members that don't use Fahrenheit! In my typical American-ness, I still don't know Celsius conversions... :p

[ConcinusMan]

I mentioned that when we were talking about using acrylic. UTH are not to be used with that material. Glass only. Not saying it's impossible to get away with it, but really, that's not what they were made for. Depending on the thickness, it's likely to warp it or even overheat the pad. Heat does not transfer through wood or acrylic in the same way that it does through glass. UTH should be used for glass only. Those that insist on using them with other materials can just continue to do so and face consequences.

In my opinion, there is no need to pay so much money for a reptile heat mat and expensive thermostat. These are far superior, even though not made for reptiles. They don't overheat, provide just the right amount of warmth, and therefore, do not need an expensive thermostat. On top of that, they are cheaper. I just don't like reptile heat mats but I've had nothing but positive experience using this for heating babies in 20 gallon glass tanks: Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MT10006 9-by-19-1/2-Inch Seedling Heat Mat: Home & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MT10006--19-1-2-Inch-Seedling/dp/B0001WV010/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1291838584&sr=1-1)

I don't do American to (rest of the world) conversions out of my head either. That's what this is for: Online Conversion - Convert just about anything to anything else (http://www.onlineconversion.com/)

[Floof]

I mentioned that when we were talking about using acrylic. UTH are not to be used with that material. Glass only. Not saying it's impossible to get away with it, but really, that's not what they were made for. Depending on the thickness, it's likely to warp it or even overheat the pad. Heat does not transfer through wood or acrylic in the same way that it does through glass. UTH should be used for glass only. Those that insist on using them with other materials can just continue to do so and face consequences.

Hence, thermostats. An unregulated heat pad is subject to all kinds of variations, extra risks, affects from odd material... And it can cause all kinds of problems, because it has the potential to obtain dangerously high temperatures, on rare occasion potentially hot enough to, yes, warp plastic. Then you stick a thermostat on it set to a fraction of the heat pad's maximum output potential, and, even if that material is going to alter the heat pad's function/output, it's still not going to get dangerously hot because the thermostat cuts all power to the heat pad the moment it exceeds the desired temperature.

If it were a serious and very real risk to use under tank heat on plastic enclosures, then PVC and melamine snake racks wouldn't be designed specifically for use on Sterilite and similar plastic storage tubs. Likewise, the highest quality snake enclosures wouldn't be made solely out of PVC and heated almost solely from below. Enclosures like Visionariums wouldn't be designed with plastic bottoms. Kritter Keepers and Faunariums, plastic enclosures, wouldn't be marketed, or at least commonly used among herp keepers who know better, toward anything needing warmer than room temperature. And you would sure as hell hear a LOT more about serious malfunctions, animal deaths, warped/cracked/melted enclosures, and anything else negative you can name about a heat pad. As it is, I have yet to hear about any of these that didn't translate directly back to an unregulated heat pad or a thermostat failing "hot" (which, effectively, is another case of unregulated heat). Have you?

I don't intimately understand the mechanics of a heat pad, or know how different materials transfer or affect heat or whatever else... But I know enough to know that plastic isn't going to warp or melt or spontaneously combust at any temperatures your reptile requires. I also know enough to know that, unless the device fails, a good thermostat isn't going to let the temperatures get higher than your setting. And I know enough to know that if the surface the heat pad is stuck to isn't getting hotter than 90*F, no matter what style vivarium it's stuck to or whatever other significant factors, it's not going to somehow manage to skyrocket to 400*F and warp and/or melt your vivarium.

I haven't been in the hobby long, but in the time I have been keeping snakes, I have never had a regulated heat pad overheat, whether it's stuck to glass, plastic (some three different kinds thereof), or acrylic, or set on top of a wood surface, metal surface, melamine surface, plastic surface, or even carpet because, barring the possibility of mechanical failure, a properly controlled heat pad just does not get hot enough to cause those problems!

Now, after typing all of this up, I opted to measure the surface temperature of my corn snake's heat pad, a ZooMed brand stuck to the plastic bottom of a Visionarium enclosure. Inside the enclosure under her warm side hide and about 1/2 an inch of substrate, the temperature is 85.7 degrees Fahrenheit. The surface of the heat pad itself, taken with an infrared temp gun with fresh (replaced two days ago) batteries, is a whopping 88.7 degrees Fahrenheit. A three degree difference that isn't nearly hot enough to cause any issues with any of the surrounding materials. I have done this same thing several times in the past, and have never seen more than a 5 degree difference between the two temperatures, with the majority of those being prior to the heat transferring to the other side and/or the heat pad shutting off (temperatures taken one minute prior to a 4-5 degree difference to see if it's a trend or a fluke).

EDIT: I just realized I have my other snake in a plastic Faunarium, so two examples of what you see as taboo. So, taking the temperatures the same as I had my corn snake's... Under an inch, inch and a half of substrate, the temperature is 85.5*F. On the surface of the heat pad on the opposite side of the plastic, it is 85.5*F. Not even a .1 degree difference.

Keep in mind I'm talking about plastic and similar materials. Materials that are kept thin when used for this application, and are known not to melt under "normal" temperatures. I'm not talking about wood or any other heavily insulating material.

Now, maybe I'm missing something here... But how is a heat pad that isn't getting hotter than 90*F (about 32*C) going to make a material whose melting point exceeds 400*F (200*C) warp or melt? There's a pretty significant 300 (168) degree difference there.

(And thanks for the link... Glad I'm not the only not-conversion-savvy American here, lol!)

(Adding after seeing your edit... Argh.)
I've seen those seedling mats put to use under hatchling tortoise enclosures. I can see their usefulness. Aren't they designed not to go over 80 or the like? Not quite hot enough for some animals--for example, Corn snakes are best kept with a heat mat at 85*F so they can properly digest, and "common" terrestrial geckos and many pythons/boas need temperatures 90 or higher.

Call me a worry-wart, but I'd still put my expensive thermostat to use, even if using a seedling mat designed not to exceed 80F. I don't like to play with my animals' lives, and I'd much rather spend $100 once on a nice Herpstat that will regulate the heat pad and tell me when it malfunctions (<3 the over/under heat alarm feature!) and not have to worry about that off-chance of my pet overheating than find out too late that the heat pad malfunctioned, or the substrate retained too much heat, or some other issue otherwise caused my snake to overheat.

Phew... That ended up being a long post! :p

[ConcinusMan]

In conjunction with a fairly low watt basking lamp (in my case, a 40 watt 12 inches above the top of a 20 gal long) and using about an inch of reptibark/coconut fiber substrate, the surface of the substrate (only on about 1/3 of the floor) reaches 90-92 degrees (concinnus' like 90 degree basking areas) using the seedling heat mat. And at night, when the air temp is 68-70 F the surface of the substrate is 78-80 since, for babies, I leave the pad on at night. I don't use heat pads as an exclusive heat source for sun-loving basking reptiles,(that would be stupid) but rather as a supplemental heat source to keep the substrate a bit warmer than it would normally be. That makes the seedling heat mat ideal. It's also thinner than a reptile heat mat, bigger in the price range, and doesn't have that annoying enormous box where the cord attaches.

[Floof]

In conjunction with a fairly low watt basking lamp (in my case, a 40 watt 12 inches above the top of a 20 gal long) and using about an inch of reptibark/coconut fiber substrate, the surface of the substrate (only on about 1/3 of the floor) reaches 90-92 degrees (concinnus' like 90 degree basking areas) using the seedling heat mat. And at night, when the air temp is 68-70 F the surface of the substrate is 78-80 since, for babies, I leave the pad on at night. I don't use heat pads as an exclusive heat source for sun-loving basking reptiles,(that would be stupid) but rather as a supplemental heat source to keep the substrate a bit warmer than it would normally be. That makes the seedling heat mat ideal. It's also thinner than a reptile heat mat, bigger in the price range, and doesn't have that annoying enormous box where the cord attaches.

Then it's a good thing this thread was started with neither basking nor sun-loving corn snakes in mind... ;)

What works for you, works for you. I maintain that I still won't use a heat pad without a thermostat, and that's my choice. I also refuse to use heat lamps on my snakes--but both of mine are of primarily nocturnal species that don't need overhead heat, and, generally speaking, don't want overhead light.

I will not argue the visual attractiveness of seedling mats, or any of their other benefits, as I have not used them. (However, they sound a whole lot like the Bean Farm's UltraTherm heat mats, which are a very different item than ZooMed's... Though I still wouldn't use one without a thermostat, since I've seen one exceed 100... Still too hot for the snakes I keep.)

[ConcinusMan]

Then it's a good thing this thread was started with neither basking nor sun-loving corn snakes in mind... ;)

True, this was about an enclosure. But still for garters, which are mostly diurnal, love to bask under lights, and enjoy overhead heat generally.


What works for you, works for you. I maintain that I still won't use a heat pad without a thermostat, and that's my choice. I also refuse to use heat lamps on my snakes--but both of mine are of primarily nocturnal species that don't need overhead heat, and, generally speaking, don't want overhead light.

I have an albino garter which is the same way. Hates light, and only comes out when it's dark or nearly dark. For him, he still gets overhead heat from a ceramic heat emitter and he does like to bask under it. All I was saying about the seedling mat is that it was much cheaper than a reptile mat and so far doesn't get hot enough to worry about also purchasing another expensive item - a thermostat.


I will not argue the visual attractiveness of seedling mats, or any of their other benefits, as I have not used them. (However, they sound a whole lot like the Bean Farm's UltraTherm heat mats, which are a very different item than ZooMed's... Though I still wouldn't use one without a thermostat, since I've seen one exceed 100... Still too hot for the snakes I keep.)

I didn't buy it because it's attractive. In fact, when in use, I don't even see it. I bought it because I was needing to heat several shoebox tubs with babies in them and didn't want something that gets very hot or needs a thermostat. I just thought it was kinda cool that this much cheaper pad turned out to be much more useful and safer to me, than those actually intended for reptiles. I'm suggesting that some others might find that product useful and much less expensive than a reptile heat mat and thermostat. I did.

This is my last post here on this matter.:)

OK, we can probably both agree that it's time to stop hijacking Haz's thread and turning it into a heating debate?:confused:

[HazAnga]

well this might counteract what you guy's have said, but yes these tanks are for my corns, the heat mat covers maybe 1/5th of the tank. the middle of the whole tank is where it is. it doesn't git so hot that it's going to melt the acrylic, my boss at the pet store i used to work at has done it for years and no problem (not to say that it couldn't ever happen) the acrylic is 1/4" thick and I'm not worried about it warping or melting or bending in anyway. The place where I got the acrylic also have a couple guys who have something similar to what I've done and do the same thing with their UTH's.
They do spend their time hiding and under the substrate, sometimes coming out to wonder around, most of the time yes they do come out after the (sun's gone down).
As for the fan's, well i scraped that idea, mainly cuzz i didn't feel like drilling more holes to mount the fans then wire them up :).

[ConcinusMan]

Well how's the ventilation then? I do know you can take advantage of heat rising from the bottom, (chimney effect) in order to enhance ventilation and that's what I did when I used shoebox tubs for babies when they were first born. Works well only if the heat is rising from one end. doesn't work that great in the middle. As heat rises from one end and exits through the top (must have a way for it to get out) it draws fresh air in through the other end of the enclosure or from holes drilled near the bottom. Pretty much eliminates the need for fans. Besides that, fans are an excellent way to create a draft and make your snakes ill.

chimney effect (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/C/AE_chimney_effect.html)

[HazAnga]

That's basically the same way its set up. One big UTH on the middle of the complete enclosure. So half in each side.

[ConcinusMan]

One way to test it out (not an option for everyone) is to fill it with smoke. If it clears within a few hours, you have good ventilation. If it doesn't clear, and air tends to stagnate and just sit there inside, that's another condition that promotes respiratory infection, especially when moisture is present.

If the enclosure dries out fairly quickly, then your ventilation is probably fine because even with plenty of heat, it wouldn't dry out quickly without good air flow and you would notice condensation in spots on the walls.

[HazAnga]

lol yeah... it dries out fairly quick, needing a spray down every other day at the longest

[ConcinusMan]

That's good, but being checkered's, (from somewhat arid climates) I would think they wouldn't mind having very dry enclosure and low relative humidity, in fact, they might prefer it. No garter snake likes living in a stuffy "steam room" with damp floors. I was just saying that fast drying is an indication good ventilation.

I didn't mean for it to sound like you should mist them all the time.

That's just something that I do need to do with baby northwesterns and concinnus from time to time when the humidity gets low. (below 50 percent) and it's good that the moisture evaporates within a day at most.

[Floof]

well this might counteract what you guy's have said, but yes these tanks are for my corns, the heat mat covers maybe 1/5th of the tank. the middle of the whole tank is where it is. it doesn't git so hot that it's going to melt the acrylic, my boss at the pet store i used to work at has done it for years and no problem (not to say that it couldn't ever happen) the acrylic is 1/4" thick and I'm not worried about it warping or melting or bending in anyway. The place where I got the acrylic also have a couple guys who have something similar to what I've done and do the same thing with their UTH's.

So, you don't control the heat mat in any way? I implore you to take the temperature of the heat pad under the substrate layer... It may surprise you how hot it gets. Maybe not hot enough to damage the acrylic, but certainly hot enough to damage your snakes. It's especially important to check if your snakes tend to burrow over the heat mat, as that means they're getting in that insulated area where all the heat is being held from the heat mat (and even being supplemented by the heat lamp--making it an even more dangerous situation).

I'm sorry if I'm getting annoying, but my biggest fear when it comes to reptiles is an overheating enclosure/room, or an out of control heat mat, and the animal either being unable to escape it or too stupid to get out of the way of that heat. I really, really don't want to see you make a post stating "my snake got burned" because "the UTH got too hot." Unregulated heat pads can be dangerous.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm with floof on this one. I hate those zoo med undertank heaters.

[HazAnga]

ok... so I've kinda upgraded the cage (lock wise)
My son is getting bigger and I'm just preparing for the future so I figured if I put a lock like what we use at work for pantries and cabinets and everything (cabinet shop). That way it keeps him out of the cage and the snakes in the cage.
Here's the picture, the first picture i took (got deleted) I was just about to take the picture and right when i pressed the button all the way down, the timer clicked and the lights went out... lol...

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Enclosures/IMG_0497.jpg
the locks on the bottom are temporary, as I decided to put 2 locks per door, making it very safe and escape proof. But I only had 2 of the nicer locks, so tomorrow I'll grab 2 more locks, lock core and keys and it will be complete.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks good.
Nothing wrong with planning ahead. Good job.

[HazAnga]

Now just to git a lock for sliding glass doors lol

[kerensa]

I have a couple of questions. First what did you use that melts the acrylic togeather? was it Tenax-r7? and second where did you find the acrylic hindges? I think this may be the enclosure answer I've been seeking. light weight, with the benifits of plastic with the benifits of tanks. any other advice about construction you can share would be appreciated as well. Thanks.

[HazAnga]

I have a couple of questions. First what did you use that melts the acrylic togeather? was it Tenax-r7? and second where did you find the acrylic hindges? I think this may be the enclosure answer I've been seeking. light weight, with the benifits of plastic with the benifits of tanks. any other advice about construction you can share would be appreciated as well. Thanks.

Well... first things first, I don't know what the stuff is called that melts it together, I got it and the acrylic hinges from a Plastics shop, I also got some of the acrylic from there. Try a glass shop or something, they may have something.

Advise... make sure you have things exactly where you want them before you glue, and make sure hinges aren't going to fall apart.