Getting ready to make a better enclosure

[fish_4_all]

Likely a Western Garter snake, not ID'd positively yet. Baby, only 6 inches long.

I need the basics for a 10 gallon tank:
Heat: what is best, small heat pad under one section and water bowl?
Lighting: now: full spectrum compact flourescent, will a full spectrum 2 foot T5 be enough? With lots of hiding places to get out of the light?
Bedding: I have coconut coir and peat already but bedding right now is corn cob bedding, maybe not the best idea but was first thought to keep cage clean and dry. I know it sucks the slugs dry I feed the snake now in less than 12 hours. Tells me it is maybe not the best for snakes but so far no ill effects and no eaten kernels.
Top is window screen over egg crate for lots of air exchange.

Please take it easy on me to start off. I know I need to provide a lot more but I wasn't sure I was going to keep it. Snake is happy and healthy right now and I want to take it slow to improve it's habitat and not change things so much that the snake is out of it's element.

[gregmonsta]

Sounds like you've got the right ideas. I think you'll find that people here use a variety of techniques and really these choices are up to you.

Here's an idea of what I use -
Bottom heat - Heat-cable on a thermostat
Lighting - non-UV standard energy saving spots (There is enough UV in my living room from the velux windows and it's not as important for snakes as it can be for lizards)
Multiple hiding opportunities.
Bedding - Supreme Carefresh - perfect for burrowing and safe if accidentally swallowed. - and repticarpet over the heated areas.
A waterbowl large enough to fit the largest snake in each of my set-ups.

[fish_4_all]

Well I got rid of the corn cob, simply not worth the risk. Got the Carefresh and the snake is running around the tank like it is a comletely new home. Either that or it doesn't like the paper. It was kinda dusty though which was kind of expected. Hopefully not enough to worry about.

I have a water bowl in there and I am going to put another bowl in there with Coconut coir fior a wet spot if the snake wants to play in there or needs it for shedding. Gonna build a feeding platform out of plastic shims for construction to keep the food off the bedding.

Do I really need a heated spot in the tank? The snake is happy now and ity stays right around 72-75F. I may put in heated water once in a while to see if it prefers that but it won't go into it's water now when it is warm.

[kibakiba]

Garters enjoy warmth, mine will take every chance they get to be under a warm lamp it even in my shirt when I hold them. I'd say you should have at least a little bit of heat on one side. My carefresh is not dusty at all it's just newspaper chunks pretty much.

Also, how do you know that your snake is happy? I cant tell whether mine are happy or upset, especially when they don't show emotion on their faces. ;)
When I was holding Snap today and giving her a little neck rub she could have been hating it, but not wanting to move... Or, loving it and not wanting to show it. She hates being held and will usually fight to get out of my hands until she's tired.

[guidofatherof5]

Garters enjoy warmth, mine will take every chance they get to be under a warm lamp it even in my shirt when I hold them. I'd say you should have at least a little bit of heat on one side. My carefresh is not dusty at all it's just newspaper chunks pretty much.

Also, how do you know that your snake is happy? I cant tell whether mine are happy or upset, especially when they don't show emotion on their faces.

I'm surprised by that question, Chantel.
You are very much in-touch with your snakes;)

[kibakiba]

Well, perhaps its the strong painkiller I've had to take 3 days straight for back pain. I can tell by the way they act when they see me or are interacting with me, but just looking at them, it's hard to discern what they're really thinking or feeling. When Snap see's me, she panics and hides, it's obvious she's scared. but just when I'm looking at them they aren't showing emotion, they usually lay around in the heat lamp area. I can tell when Ember is excited and expecting food when he sees me because he rushes over and rubs his nose on the glass, or on the finger where the food normally is. It's easy to tell when Squirt is feeling curious when he approaches my hand and has his tongue flicking a lot. It's hard for anyone to say that their snake is comfortable, especially when they don't know the snake as well. I'm more in-touch with Mama and Snakey, I've had them for almost 2 years and they know me. With Snap, Ember, Tiny and Squirt, I've had them for no more than 2 months and it's still hard to figure out what they like, other than lots of food in their bellies. I also cant say that my snakes are happy with or without a heat source, I don't feel what they feel. I'm not cold-blooded and I enjoy heat, but simply saying that its in the 70s in my room and that they are content with it may as well be completely false, each one of my snakes is different and has different preferences for heat. Tiny seems to enjoy being the closest to the lamp, as does Ember. Runt enjoys being away from the light and near the water dish where its coolest, and Snap stays, for the most part, under the lamp and under the sticks.

[fish_4_all]

I have to go with what I read and what I understand. The snake is not hiding under a log, not buried in a hole trying to stay warm and not trying to escape the cage. Tells me that something has to be "right" and keeping the snake from feeling like it has to hide or try to flee. Also, a stressed animal normaly won't eat as readily is this one, in my experience anyway and my readings. I know I can not know how the snake is "feeling" but with the reading I have done and my experience with a Python over 7 years I have learned a little bit I hope. Gtanted rodents are not cold blooded but they had about the same set of indicators when they were stressed out and not "happy". I do not believe the snake will ever be truly happy, this is not it's normal habitat and it not going ever act like it would have in the wild. Hopefuly I can just keep it feeling happy enough that it doesn't mind being in a cage instead of the great outdoors.

Jippers hates to be held, being so little it is really hard to even keep a hand on it but it definately prefers not to be held at all. This could be just because it is so young or something else but is the way it acts now.

[kibakiba]

My snakes all hide and burrow, its a natural instinct for them, or so I'd assume. All of them are different and act differently. Their temperature range is 70-80 degrees. Probably lower due to it being near winter. My adults sit out in the open also, but they are more used to me and are both old enough to have endured 2 winters, so I doubt they mind not having a lamp. My babies on the other hand, burrow and curl up together once the light is out and the heater in my room is turned off.


As for hating the handling, I know where your coming from. My concinnus, Snap, musks, poops and bites sometimes when try picking her up. Of course, I hold her anyway because if I just leave her alone all the time, she might think that she can always act like that. I'll hold my hand in their tank to get them used to it, and I feed my snakes by hand also, except for the adults, they will only eat from a dish. The babies all get sort of skittish if I don't handle them much. I try to keep a balance with them in order to keep them from hating me. They do know my hand as the source of all food though, so Ember, Tiny and Runt know not to bite me unless I have food or smell strongly of food. Snap could care less. She's learning to be more calm and not poop on me as much. She seems to have the idea that pooping on me will make me put her down... but I just keep tissue on hand and wipe her bottom when she tries ;)

[fish_4_all]

Jippers doesn't poop or musk but she does not like to be held at all. Always trying to slither out of my hands even if she has no where to go. Hopefully she will get used to it and not be so skittish but naming her Jitty Jippers may not help that cause.

What kind of light do you use? I have used a lot of different ones for my python when I had him but never dealt with anything this small.

I am really glad I decided to make the kids catch a baby. I think it will be easier to get it used to being in captivity. I think an older snake would be much harder to get accustomed to being handled and in a cage. Now to get it top eat mice and fish fillet and I will be set once I get it a proper light

[kibakiba]

I use this with a reptasun basking bulb at 40 watts for my 20 gallon.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Lamp.JPG
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Basklamp.jpg

I've found that the "3500 hour life span" isnt always 3500 hours. Mine worked for a month and then died. At least they aren't too expensive. It was around 8 dollars with the tax at bridges pets. I would advise against going to any Jones' pets stores if you have any near you. They had the same lamp and bulb as me for double the price. Almost 40 dollars for the lamp and 20 dollars for the bulb.

In my experience, adults are easier to "tame" Mama was a mean girl when I got her, but she's calmed down into the sweetie I have today. She takes naps with me all the time and just likes hanging out. My babies haven't been so quick to take to me. Runt, whom I've had for the same amount of time, really hates being around me. She calms down when held, but she takes the first chance she gets to dart.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep your receipt and take the bad bulb back. Most stores will replace it.
I've have them replace the bulb even without a receipt.
I also watch the life I get out of under tank heaters. ZooMed is very good about replacing them.

[Mommy2many]

Are our snakes happy? Probably difficult to know at best for sure. I can say though, for sure, that we provide a safer, more comfortable environment than they could ever have in the wild. They never have to worry about being hungry, being preyed upon, or being out in the elements. The W/C snakes have experienced the difference. My C/B babies know no other.

Sometimes I think that they should be left to their own but then I think about the wonderful things they have been able to experience in my home. I have to believe that they enjoy the safety of their environment. Though I don't think they will ever lose their fear of being prey, starving, or even freezing to death; amongst countless other hazards.

Now, my C/B babies, don't know any other lifestyle and I have to say, the spoiled children would not know how to care for themselves if thrust out into the wild.

To tell the truth, my W/C snakes "tolerate me" and my C/B babies absolutely enjoy (yes I said it!!!) the interaction and from what I can tell, look forward to it.

I have to say I think you are very intune with your snakes, Chantel; which makes you a very good Pet!;)

[kibakiba]

Steve, that's what were going to do next month and probably buy a couple more so Mama and Snakey can have a lamp. They let the babies have it, since it was for a better cause ;)


My W/C snakes quickly took to the care they were given, warm pinkies every few days topped off with cut up worm icecream with extrea blood... All-you-can-eat salmon and tilapia... They really have the life here. Not to mention we bend over backwards, financially, for them. I find that my babies only seem to enjoy interaction if I'm feeding them. Mama will come up to the top of the enclosure and slither over to me of I take the top off, and I assume that would be because she would like some love. Snakey rarely does this, but he's a boy and you know how boys are when they're all grown up and their mom tries to hug and kiss them a bunch ;)

I enjoy being a pet to my garters... The only thing is some of them wont share and end up hurting me :(... Haha.

[Mommy2many]

I enjoy being a pet to my garters... The only thing is some of them wont share and end up hurting me :(... Haha.


Welcome to the world of parenthood. You have to go thru that and then have your child realize what a wealth of information, love and compassion you are.

Go to Lowes or Home Depot for your lamps. They cost about $7.00 there instead of $21.00 and you can use the same bulbs. Great cost saver. They also have a wider frame. They don't break as easily (in case you don't know what I mean, have a kid drop one of those lamps from Petco on the floor. Not only do they dent but the bulb breaks and the frame dents and the thingy that holds all the wires falls apart)

[kibakiba]

Really? Mine has been pretty sturdy. I had twin toddlers in my house for almost 6 months... They broke everything they could get their sticky little hands on, but never ended up breaking the lamp. I'll keep that in mind though! It's always nice to have a big amount of savings ;)

At least garters aren't as scary as humans... But then again I've only ever had a really bad experience with 3 of them... The twins, and my little brother. Haha. My little sister is less than a year old and is a little angel.

[Mommy2many]

I have 2 from Petco and 1 from Home Depot. I'm going to get 2 more from Home Depot. I'm actually afraid the one that is broken from Petco may be a fire hazard. And since I can basically get 3 for the price of one from Petco, much better deal. Hey, if they can hold the bulb, what's the difference, except the amoun tof $$$ out of your pocket! Besides, the Home Depot ones have a broader "frame".

[kibakiba]

Yeah, I wouldn't ever keep a fire hazard anywhere near my snakes, or anything flamable for that matter. The price is a good thing, but the frame bit doesnt really matter to me all that much. If it keeps my lovelies nice and toasty warm over the winter and won't randomly break, well that's all that really matters. :D

[Mommy2many]

The one from Home Depot is sturdier. I'll see if I can get you a pic of what I mean.

[Mommy2many]

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/55/5546c241-994a-4ccf-90e1-01da512bf9dd_300.jpg (javascript:openFeatureFlex('http://fp.vendaria.com/vpop/VpopViewer.html?uid=100664506&iid=AddpfzvImumvmKvJJIIKfwKILumLKv&bg=FFFFFF&nm=BZOpener&err=0&title=&pf=t&fr=t','','587','632',true,false,false,false,false, false);)

Designers Edge 8.5 in. Incandescent Clamp Light - E-245 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fans-Work-Lights/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5Zaqn9/R-100664506/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

I think this is listed at $8.97. It is a clamp lamp. Doesn't look as fancy but lasts a hell of alot longer, IMO.

[kibakiba]

It actually does look pretty fancy to me... I'm not used to really shiny things ;)

[Mommy2many]

Don't let it fool you. But it gets the job done. And at 1/3 the price.

[kibakiba]

Ineed. I'm sure my little Mama and Snakey would enjoy cuddling up under it ;)

[Mommy2many]

I think it spreads the light/heat further.

[kibakiba]

That may be a problem if its really large, but I noticed a smaller one that's close to what I have for the babies. Snakey and Mama have a 15 gallon tank and the lamp I have had to be a certain way so they could have a heat gradient :)

[Mommy2many]

Mine are 29 gallon, so I think it would be just fine for your 15 gal. at the end of the tank. If you are concerned, don't use a heat lamp bulb. On my 29 gal. tank, heat registers at about 80 degrees. Regular bulb. Near thermostat.

[kibakiba]

The only other types of light we have are florescent bulbs, and using them would worry me. I had one on the baby's tank because their other burnt out, it gave off a weird smell and it was out of there right after. My mom doesn't buy anything but florescent. (which is bad for me... Headache prone)

[Mommy2many]

yeah, know how that is, 34 years migrainal (if that's a word at all)

[kibakiba]

I'm not sure if its a word, but it fits. What's the fun in using regular boring words... :D

[fish_4_all]

Thank you all for the ideas. I am only using a 10 gallon so it might be hard to find a small enough one but I will look for a good lamp. I still haven't decided if I will go with a heat lamp because of the small tank or just get a small T5 flourescent. I can always shade off one side of the light so only one part gets light but I have lots of hiding places. The Carefresh is 2 inches deep anyway so Jippers can always burrow if she wants to get out of the light.

I want to make some wood hiding places. What would be the best way to sterilize them after I cut them and shape them the way I want them? I figure I can make them for about $2 each or less instead of buying them for $15-20 each for a hallowed out log.

[kibakiba]

Regular pet lamps work for that, you probably need a lower wattage though, 20-30 should do. This would be small enough and could hold the basking bulb and its cheaper than the pet shop ones. Designers Edge Incandescent Clamp Light - E-244 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100664145&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&MERCH=REC-_-product-2-_-100664506-_-100664145-_-N&locStoreNum=4745&marketID=44)


I think someone has said to get the wood slightly damp and to put it in the oven at 350 degrees for 5-10 minutes. Someone else could confirm that or correct me. Just get some sticks and wood from outside, that's what I do and I've never had a problem. Besides, its free.

[fish_4_all]

Thank you again, should be perfect for this cage and what I want to do.

I have tons of willow and other wood right behind my house and across the street. Just have to drill it out and cut it in half then bake it or pour boiling water over it. I remember the boiling water trick from another site. Is a great way to sterilize rocks instead of taking the chance of having the rocks explode from boiling them. Is actualy a trick or leasosn I learned in Boy Scouts. Troop leader showed us how quick a rock can explode and the damage it can do if you are not really careful. Granted this was in a fire but I have heard of and read about rocks exploding from boiling too.

[guidofatherof5]

I think I read somewhere that willows give off something dangerous. I know when you work with willow wood you should where a filter.
I'll see if I can find where I read it.;)

[fish_4_all]

You could be right about some willows but I think these are different. Being there is litteraly a forest of them on all sides of the house and the sankes live in them, swim in the water they grow in and such I would have to make an edumacated guess that this type is not bad for them. These are pussy willow, swamp willow and bush willows, not the true willow trees like the weeping willow. Again, I am just making an educated assumption so if anyone knows otherwise please let me know before I put it in the cage.

I think I found what you heard, salicin is an ingredient found in white willow. It is a medical equivelant of aspirin. Cutting and handling of wood should be done carefully due to possible exposure to salicin especialy in people proned to: ulcers, asthma, reactions or allergies to aspirin. Teen and children should handle carefully if ill with chicken pox and other ailments associated with Rye Syndrone.

If you find anything on other types of willow please let me know.

Also, I believe mine are pussy willows so maybe that makes a difference.

[Mommy2many]

I went and got a couple of "clamp lamps" at Home Depot yesterday. Yjeu had 6 1/2 " lamps for about $6.00. perfect for your 10 gallon tank.

[ConcinusMan]

Be careful with those cheapy clamp lamps. Low wattage only and no ceramic heat emitters!

Dome light "clamp lamps" with ceramic sockets are the only one's appropriate for reptile use IMHO.

[Mommy2many]

Dome light "clamp lamps" with ceramic sockets are the only one's appropriate for reptile use IMHO.


Except when they are $20 bucks a shot and my cat keeps knocking them onto the tile floor:eek: Then they are a fire hazard...

[ConcinusMan]

That's what I was saying about the cheap ones. Unless your using low watt bulbs that don't get very hot, they are a fire hazard without getting knocked to the floor.

Anyway, I didn't pay $20. That's ridiculous. They aren't that high even at petco dot com and you know how overpriced petco is. I paid around $10 for the big one (10 inch dome) and around $7 each for the small ones.(5.5 inch) Picked up a couple of used ones, perfectly good, for around $3 each. Flukers clamp lamps.

[Mommy2many]

Not here...:(

[ConcinusMan]

Doesn't surprise me. You're a million miles from nowhere. I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to tolerate that without means to shop online. If you can do that, it doesn't much matter where you are. You're still going to get the lamps and other supplies much cheaper, even after shipping costs.

[Mommy2many]

Actually, being a million miles from everywhere has it's disadvantages as well...

Half way between Boston and New York, I'm screwed. Besides living in Connecticut to start with...

Online is about the only way to find a deal, maybe. They are out there, just not that many. Not complaining, will make due with what we have and improvise;)

[ConcinusMan]

Depends on the time of year and other factors. Right now, deals aren't all that great on the fixtures but I found a 5.5 inch (75 watt max) for 14 bucks, including shipping. That's still way better deal than any store around here, plus they add 8 percent sales tax in the stores but not online. Right after Christmas, the prices online will drop like a rock. They did for the last two years in a row. Last Dec after Christmas I bought a 5.5 inch for 10 bucks and some change, delivered and that kind of deal was common at that time. They need to unload inventory to save them from having to pay inventory tax on it for the second time, come new year.

Right now ebay: TWO 8.5 inch flukers lamps for $32 delivered. Not bad.

How about all of this for $10.99? The bargains are out there. You just have to know where to look and keep digging/checking back.

5 1/2" Delux Porcelan Clamp Lamp



In-Line On/Off Switch

Heavy Gage Aluminum Dome

High Heat Porcelain Socket

Designer Black/White Color

Custom ceramic base Clamp Lamp ideal for use with all types of reptile incandescent light sources or reptile ceramic heat emitters up to 100 watts

UL Listed


Included with every purchase:



1 - 5 1/2" Clamp lamp (these cannot be sold separately)

2.8 oz Vita terra Reptile food by Vitakraft (daily food for all tortoise and herbivorous Reptile)

0.88 oz Vita terra Gammare by Vitakraft (small shrimp for Reptile)

1 - 60 watt daylight Blue reptile UVA bulb, can be used with a Zoo Med's Reptisun 5.0 UVB Flourescent lamp for proper calcium absorption. UVA stimulates normal feeding behavior in reptiles

0.5 oz. - Zoo Med antiseptic Hand Gel - Wipe Out 3 (trial size)


0.5 oz. - Zoo Med Reptisafe - instant Terrarium Water conditioner (trial size)



1 package Jurassi Vite - Vitamin Supplement for Reptiles and Amphibians (sample size)



1 - Zoo Med precision analog Reptile Humidity Gauge



1 - Zoo Med High Range Reptile Thermometer (70 to 105 degrees)



Zoo Med's Beginners Guide to Reptile Care