Fell In love with a backyard snake.. looking for advice!

[Ryachanira]

My husband and I found a garter snake on our driveway on Sunday. I took a bunch of pictures of him, used a metal rod to get him into the grass and didn't really think much of it. Then last night when I pulled into the garage and got out of my car, I looked back and there he was, sitting in my garage, looking dangerously close to my tire. Luckily it turns out that I did not run him over (I think I would have cried), so I picked him up with the rod again and this time moved him to the backyard. I kept going out to check on him and he barely ever moved. Since I apparently like flirting with danger, I decided it was a perfect idea to just pick him up. Turns out he is fairly calm - I read that garter snakes will usually 'musk' but he did not. Anyway, I left him outside all day and night and he never really moved much, and at this point I decide I am in love with him and brought him inside... I know he would have been fine in the cold, but I just felt so bad for him since it was only about 40 and windy. We are thinking about keeping him.

I don't really know a lot about snakes, even though I have always really liked them. Is it even a good idea to take him in, or would he be happier/better off in the wild? He is currently about a foot long and fairly thin, so I think that he might be young. Right now I am at work and he is at home in a really small cage with paper towels and carefresh; assuming we still plan to keep him by the time we leave work, we plan to go buy him a habitat setup, because I am sure he is hating the tiny cage. He still does not move much at all when he is in the cage, but he is more active when I hold him - although not trying to escape, just kind of wraps around my hands. He also occasionally opens his mouth up at me, is this an aggressive sign?

Anyway, I guess I am looking on advice on whether it is a good idea to keep him or not in the first place, and if so what he needs/what he should be fed/etc. I have done a LOT of online reading, looking at various websites and care sheets (including the one here), so I have a fairly good idea of the requirements, but I am simply looking for any extra advice you can give. We scheduled a vet appt in the morning for him, assuming that we decided tonight to keep him, just to make sure he is okay and get an idea on how old he is and such.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D3bwkPykJbo/TMWGs8YbTcI/AAAAAAAAAPo/5YSu_gNsjxM/s320/Silv.jpg
There he is, on Sunday when I was snapping pictures, with his mouth open. We named him Silv.

Thanks so much for your help! :)

[ConcinusMan]

Welcome!

It's possible that the snake is sick and/or dying. Laying out at 40 degrees and not moving much is not normal behavior. Opening the mouth can be respiratory problems and he's having trouble breathing. This time of year, healthy snakes are going underground and preparing to hibernate. (Brumate). This time of year it's not at all uncommon for sick or dying snakes to just stay on the surface to die, rather than going underground to brumate.

Hopefully this is not the case and maybe he'll recover and thrive with a little help. Let us know what the vet has to say.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum.
Thanks for taking the time to be concerned for that little one.
Much of what you describe leads me to think your snake may be sick.
Richard brings up many good points about normal behavior.
Getting a Vet. visit scheduled is good if you are going to keep it.
At times I will find snakes in my yard after they should have been at their brumation sights. I've been able to keep them alive for as much as 2 years. The wild life is hard on them and I think they know when their time has come.
I wish you the best of luck with your little one. Please keep us posted on this situation.
Once again, thanks for taking the time to care.

P.S. I'd have brought it into the house also.;)

[mustang]

notice any white stuff or excess drool it would be stomatis (mouth rot) welcome i hope he makes it
WELCOME

[Ryachanira]

Thank you so much for all of your replies. I had read about the hibernation and had wondered if he should have been doing that about now. I have to say though, knowing he is sick is making me want to keep him even more - unless the vet says he is past all hope in which case I will let him die in peace out in the woods. But hopefully there is something I can do for him! I will let you know after the vet appointment in the morning.

I have not seen any white fluid from his mouth. He does have a bit of a rough/strange spot on his head - I had not noticed it on Sunday (when that picture was taken) but noticed it last night. Looks almost like the skin is coming off. But it is just a tiny spot. I thought perhaps he was shedding his skin, but again I have pretty much no knowledge of snakes so am not sure if that would even be happening right now... I can try to get a picture of that up later.

Any ideas on what the sickness might be and what I could do for him tonight before we get to the vet? I assume it would be best to get a tank set up for him tonight rather than leave him in the small box? I kind of hate to buy all of the items for the tank if there is a chance the vet could say he will not make it, but if it is best for him I am willing. I am totally attached to the little guy!

Thanks again for your help!

[mustang]

retained shed

[Selkielass]

He probably has a much better chance of surviving in your care than out in the wild, especially if you can get him to a good herp vet.

In the meantime keep him comfortably warm- I think around 80 degrees is about right for a sick snake, but garters usually like a temperature between 70 and 80 degrees. A desk, table or reflector lamp is a good temporary source.

If he has a retained shed, a soak in warm water may help- offer him a shallow dish of lukewarm water to drink or soak in.

Thanks for showing concern for him. Backyard garters can make wonderful pets.

[kibakiba]

Poor guy, I would have taken him in also. I wouldn't know much about what's wrong with him as far as being sick, but the rough spot does seem like a retained shed. I helped one of my little ones that had one by setting her in a Tupperware container with a warm damp washcloth. She happily stayed on it until I helped her get the stuck piece off.
I agree with Selkielass, backyard garters can make wonderful pets. I have 5 from my yard and they are the best snakes in the world. :D

[lauwersp]

Hi there...

I am by no means an expert among this great group of people, but I would pose this thought about setting up a tank. I have totally fallen in love with my two garters, and it sounds like you are quite taken as well. They have great personalities (which it sounds like you may not have seen yet considering the general lack of energy your snake has at the moment) and are very people friendly snakes comparatively.

If your snake does not make it, and we are all pulling for the opposite of course, you always have the option of seeking out another one, and a tank that's already setup gives you good incentive to do so.

I have had a lot of different pet across my life, and I love animals, but I've really found a special fondness for my garters.

So there you have it... I think I would commit to the tank and trimmings, and tell yourself that if something does happen to your little one, you're still gonna move forward with another garter.

Best of luck!

[guidofatherof5]

Hi there...

I am by no means an expert among this great group of people, but I would pose this thought about setting up a tank. I have totally fallen in love with my two garters, and it sounds like you are quite taken as well. They have great personalities (which it sounds like you may not have seen yet considering the general lack of energy your snake has at the moment) and are very people friendly snakes comparatively.

If your snake does not make it, and we are all pulling for the opposite of course, you always have the option of seeking out another one, and a tank that's already setup gives you good incentive to do so.

I have had a lot of different pet across my life, and I love animals, but I've really found a special fondness for my garters.

So there you have it... I think I would commit to the tank and trimmings, and tell yourself that if something does happen to your little one, you're still gonna move forward with another garter.

Best of luck!

Good advice. Especially for any Garter that needs up with you.

By taking the little scrub into your house you've infected everyone.
Don't worry, it's a good thing.:D
They are a special animal.;)

[Ryachanira]

Thanks again for all of the help! :) I already told my husband... we should set it up like he is going to make it to show some faith in him. And if he doesn't.. we will just have to get another one. I think I am hooked!

Silv is doing well enough this morning. We got his cage set up last night; I would love any input/advice on the cage. It is a tad basic right now but I think I got all the basics covered (let me know):

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvCage.jpg

We went with a 15 gallon - the 10 seemed too small for when he gets bigger and the 20 was too large for where we are eventually going to put him. The lighting we got is a 50 watt "Night Glo" moonlight for night and a 60 watt "Sun Glo" sunlight for the day. Are these appropriate lights for him? Also, do the lights stay on 24 hours, and if so is it 12 and 12 for day and night? We got him a big old pond so he should be able to fully soak in it for some time, a hideaway, and then the plant and the log for basking. The substrate is reptile bark (I believe that is what they called it). How does that look for a setup?

Last night we got a box of nightcrawlers (ew ew ew, I have to say the live food is why I never got a snake before, and these were just gross... but I did it for Silv!) and a couple of ruby red minnows to stick in his water. So far the minnows have not been touched, but I am fairly sure he ate the nightcrawler... at least I can not find the darn thing, and I dug around in the substrate looking for it. So it must be gone!

He is still fairly listless in his cage, although he has moved around a bit and there was an awful lot of tongue flicking. His vet appt is in an hour so we will see what they have to say - I will let you know!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/Silv.jpg

Also any ideas on what species this guy is? Or girl, haha, I have no idea. If it is a girl her name is Silvia. :) He was found in northeast Kansas. I think he is really gorgeous... but I might be biased.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like a nice setup.
It's good that you see you addiction.
If the worms were eaten, that's a great sign. A lot of tongue flicking is also good.
Rosy minnows not the best choice. If guppies are available switch to them.
This is from the Care sheet:

Safe, thiaminase-free live fish- Feeder fish that are thiaminase free are rather hard to come by. (see more about thiaminase below) Fish that contain thiaminase are not an acceptable food item for snakes and should not be considered even as an occasional "treat". The main fish to be wary of is the goldfish. Aside from red wigglers, goldfish may be the worst thing you could possibly feed your snake. Rosy red minnows, also known as flathead minnows also contain thiaminase, although it is rumored to a lesser extent. If possible, they should also be avoided.
Feeder guppies and platies are thiaminase free if you find yourself needing to feed live fishes. You may also use wild caught dace minnows, bluegills, and the like. The major concern with feeding live fishes is that they may be carrying parasites that could be passed on to your snake especially if wild caught.

Let us know how the Vet. appoinment goes.

[BUSHSNAKE]

that is Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis(red-sided garter)

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Ryachanira :)

[Ryachanira]

So we went to the vet this morning. She said she thinks he is most likely pretty young, and that because it was very warm here for so long and then suddenly got very cold, and because he is young and doesn't have a schedule down, that he somehow missed out on brumination. She said he was malnourished, but other than that and the slight bit of retained shed on his head she says he looks fairly healthy. She thinks the cold and the lack of nutrition were making him sluggish and he should perk up soon.

I did an extensive check of the substrate this morning and that worm was definitely not there, so he must have eaten it. We put another one in. How often should I be feeding him? I do not want to overfeed, but I do not want to underfeed especially if he is malnourished right now. He still had not touched the minnows when I left this morning - I will look into finding guppies for him next time.

Overall things seem to be progressing fairly well I think, I am happy that he is eating at least and is maybe just a touch more active. The vet said he probably would not have made it without us taking him in, so that made me feel good about this decision. I will keep you all updated!

[Ryachanira]

Oh also, is there a way to tell the gender? The vet didn't think there was any easy way to do it, and I would be curious to know.

[kibakiba]

You can feed him a few pieces of form every other day, I feed my babies worm and fish every other day. As for gender, take a couple pictures of its tail and some members can help you. It's not too hard to tell. I made this picture to help another person who needed help with sexing their garter. it's not the best but it may help :)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Sexing_pictures_help.JPG

Maybe some day when I'm not studying I'll remake it so it looks better... Haha

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a link to help you sex your snake:
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html
If you want to post a few under side tail shots we'll see if we can't help you.

[Selkielass]

That is a beautiful enclosure set up.
Lots of tongue flicking is a very good sign- eating is even better!
My snakes like to eat every day to every other day when eating worms. Fish seem to last them a little longer (2 days easy) Frozen and thawed pinky mice hold them for three days or longer. (I have fairly young snakes, they still like to eat often and are growing quickly.)

Worms are good food if the worms are well fed. You will notice that as you slowly use up a package of 12 or 20 worms, the worms left at the end are skinnier, floppier and possibly dying.
Setting up an earthworm box in a cool corner of the basement can help to keep them alive and well fed. (Finely chopped vegetable scraps, eggshells for calcium etc.) Some members here have even had luck breeding their own worms. There is lots of info online about keeping worms. Just be sure you are keeping and feeding earthworms or night crawlers, NOT red wigglers or compost worms- red worms can be toxic.

If keeping worms is too much for you, just try to be sure to get the freshest worms possible (They have a sell-by date on the package usually.) and consider occasionally dipping the worms tail in reptile vitamin supplement before feeding.

Silv is lovely! Very pretty red markings! I hope s/he continues to thrive!

[kibakiba]

You can even pour a little of the vit/calcium sup in the worm box and the worms will eat it. Bone meal is great for worms as it has calcium and phosphorus. I find that it's better to keep them and try to raise them than to just buy them blindly. I've had worms just up and die and turn deep red for no reason. It gives you a chance to see that they're doing good before you feed them to your beloved snake. It could turn into a free food source if you have a lot of worms. I have about 60 and I find quite a few Tiny and Squirt(my babies) sized baby worms. :)
I wouldn't feed floppy worms to your snake because, as Selkielass said, they could be dying. It'd better safe than sorry! :)

[Ryachanira]

Doing well this morning; he ate the second nightcrawler yesterday so I suppose I will go ahead and stick another in today, since you mentioned every day to every other day with worms. They seem fairly plump, so hopefully they are good food for him. I have not been cutting them up or anything, just sticking them in his cage whole. But I kind of assume that is how he was eating outside just a few days ago (if he was eating much at all, poor guy), and so far no issues... should I be slicing them up for him?

Here are tail pictures. I am conflicted because it seems to taper fairly fast BUT there seems to be a small lump. Not as clear as some of the other pictures on here (to me, granted I am brand new at this!) but I am thinking maybe male? I will let you all decide. :)

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/Silvtail1.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/Silvtail2.jpg

I was also curious about the tip of his tail - it looks a bit damaged maybe? I totally had not noticed it until I took these pictures.

Yesterday when I got home I found him at the very top of the branch in his enclosure, basking in the heat lamp. I was happy to see how much he had moved, since he continues to be just a bit less active. But I think he is making progress! :)

[infernalis]

That is such good news. Really wishing all the best and it's nice to see how much you care. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

I would say you have a male in the first photo and female in the second photo.
Treat that tail tip with some antibiotic ointment.
Great news on the eating. Keep up the good work.;)

[Ryachanira]

So I guess that means he is ambiguous gender, haha. I agree it kind of depends on the pictures, that is why I posted two... Will it be easier to tell when he gets a bit older?

[kibakiba]

I had originally thought Snakey was a female, but as he got older it was more obvious. How long is he again?
Worms are easier for the snakes to eat when they're cut up, and it also gives it less of a chance of having any bedding stuck on the worm. Snakey likes live, non-cut worms, but they crawl out of his mouth, so I have to cut them for him to be able to safely eat them without having runaway meals. I'm not sure if that happens with your guy, but if he prefers them live and they aren't giving him any problems, I'd say go ahead and keep feeding him live ones.

Oh, and he does look like a male to me... It's a little hard to tell though.

[guidofatherof5]

If those are photos of the same snake I will have to say the lighting really through me.
Very interesting.

[kibakiba]

You can kind of tell that it is the same snake :) On the tail, near the cloaca there is a line in the middle of the scale, it's on both pictures. And a little lump starts at the cloaca and goes about 6 scales down. I've been up for 24 hours... Don't blame me for being oddly observant when I'm out of my mind. :D

[Ryachanira]

They are both of my Silv, I only have one snake - never thought I would even have the one! I just took the photos on different settings. One is on macro setting with light adjusted a bit and the other is a regular shot. I tried to get several different pictures and then pick the best to let you guys have a few different views. :)

[Ryachanira]

Also one question about the antibiotic ointment - is this something I would get from a pet store, or do I just use some sort of neosporin on his tail?

[Charis]

Neosporin works well. It's actually fairly normal for WC snakes to be missing bits of their tail.

[Ryachanira]

Good to know; I will get some neosporin onto that tail tonight when I get home.

Final question of the day (hopefully!) - I have not seen him in the water at all. I do not know if he is drinking or not. This morning when I put him back into his cage after handling him, I actually set his front third into the water. He seemed to hate it - squirmed out of the water as fast possible and bolted up into the plastic plant. The minnows are still untouched (I will be looking for guppies next time). Any reason to be concerned by this? Like I said, I have not seem him drink, but then again I have not seen him eat either, I just know that I put a worm into the cage in the morning and it is gone by the evening, so surely he is eating them.

Thank you all again so much for your help, this is such a great forum! :)

[infernalis]

he may still be shy, in time you will see him eat and drink.. Eventually he will grab the food right away from you as soon as he sees it.

so glad it's working out for you.

[Selkielass]

Looks like a male to me, but you will know for sure as he gets older and larger.
It looks like he had a near escape and might have lost a tiny bit of the tail tip. It should nearly disappear after a shed or two. Antibiotic ointment is a good treatment until it seals over.

I'm Sooo glad he is doing well!

[Selkielass]

Oh, worms have a lot of water in them, so don't worry too much if you don't see him drink. I have one snake that is an avid drinker and bather, and another who I seldom see near the water dish. Both are thriving and growing (And pooping) like crazy so I know both are getting plenty of fluids.

[Mommy2many]

I just read this thread from start to finish. First of all, Welcome to this forum! I was so happy to read that you took an interest in a possibly sick and/or injured wild snake. That is so very considerate of you. I agree with all before me on getting the appropriate set-up for Silv and if God forbids, something were to happen, many of us here could help you in acquiring another scaly friend to train you:D

As also said before me, the tail is an injury and any antibiotic ointment such as neosporin or bacitracin will work. As for male or female, I vote male.

Worms are the easiest to digest. Your baby may also enjoy salmon or tilapia from the fish dept. of your grocery store (since the live food is ew,ew,ew!!!) I have W/C Easterns that took to the salmon readily. I get fresh fish and then freeze what I have leftover. Great when you need something right away.

The worms may also be cut up to attract eating in your presence (possibly) Babies tend to eat more frequently. Worms can be purchased at Walmart for $3.00 for about 20 (in the fishing dept). They are to be kept in the fridge until you use them. Also, some garters really enjoy slugs! Those you will have to hunt for in the yard but that can be satisfying as well (I know, little things entertain me:rolleyes:)

I don't recall seeing where you live. I'm guessing mid to western US since you have a red-sided garter.

All in all, good luck with your new friend and keep us posted as to his progress.

[mustang]

im glad your snakes doing well and youll be a great parent lol (you get really attatched to thees little guys)

[Ryachanira]

Here is an update on my baby - he is doing very well, in my personal opinion. He has eaten three worms since Wednesday night, out of four we gave him - one we found dead in his cage and after a few hours it shriveled up and was dried out so we tossed it. He still has not touched those minnows BUT I did see him drink this morning, too cute! He has also pooped on me once now, lovely. Haha.

He is MUCH more active today. He keeps running the perimeter of his cage, exploring everything. He also keeps climbing to the top, getting up on the lip of the cage right under the lid and trying to push at the lid. Also, he is a little less happy with being held now - when I pick him up he is super wiggly, like he is trying desperately to get away. Which is kind of sad, but overall very good since I think it means he is feeling much better! It was probably not so normal for him to barely ever move. :)

One More Question - I looked into this supplement powder at PetsMart and wasn't sure if I needed it or not. I know that people have mentioned dipping worms in stuff if that is all they eat but I wanted to know if this is the right thing to use or if I need to get something different. It is Fluker's Repti-Cal: Fluker Farms Repta-Calcium Dietary Supplement - Reptile - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753952&lmdn=Brand) I haven't used it yet since I was waiting to ask you all. I will continue to supply him fish and possibly try some frozen pinkies soon, but right now all I am having success with is the worms.

Here are a couple more pictures:

Silv, basking at the top of his branch:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/Silv2.jpg

New tank setup, with more plants, some stones and a background (which is of course more for me than him!):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvCage2.jpg

Exploring:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvExplores.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Silv is looking good.
Eating, drinking and pooping. Things could be much worse.
Here's the product I use:
REP Cal Ultrafine Powder Calcium with Vitamin D3 #200 - Supplements... (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1T4GPCK_enUS393US393&q=rep-cal&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=3817686425388673074&ei=mKfNTMrDDcP7lweO28TjCA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=image&resnum=3&ved=0CEMQ8gIwAg)#

[indigoman]

If eating just worms now a light dusting of your cal. suppliment would be advisable. I use mine about every 3rd feeding. very nice snake and setup by the way!

[ConcinusMan]

I really don't think it's all that necessary. Worms have more calcium than people tend to think. Too much supplementing can be harmful. If you use supplements, use them sparingly. More is not better.

[lauwersp]

Hey...

As far as your comment about not liking to be held as much, this could be a temporary thing. Remember when you found him he was weak... not as much energy to fight to get away... you've fixed that. :) He still may need some time to get used to you. I know my two have gotten calmer and calmer with being held the more I've done it. Many times, in fact, my male just curls up in my fingers and hangs out... like yours was doing on the top of his branch.

At any rate, looks like things are progressing well. It's really nice to find people who love and appreciate garter snakes... the people here have been very helpful to me, and it's nice to find someone else who likes and appreciates them as well. Snakes get SUCH a bad rap and no snake deserves that bad rap less than the garter.

[kibakiba]

I used to dust my worms with calcium, but they really don't need it all but maybe once per month if that. Worms do have calcium. I don't use my calcium sup. any more anyways, I feed my worms a high protein and calcium diet. Maybe you could do what I'm doing with Snap to tame your little one down. I give Snap 30 minutes to an hour and a half of my time, depending on whether or not she seems to enjoy having me hold her. I just hold her, I have a somewhat tight grip on her at first and as she calms down, I slowly lessen my grip on her to show her that I trust her, and she slows down and stays calm. It takes a while, though, Snap still doesn't trust me, but while I hold her she calms down and eventually enjoys a little neck massage. :D

[mustang]

oh wow thats a snake i can use (like checker)to girl charm using his apparent cuteness lol

[Ryachanira]

I might consider not using the calcium powder; I would like to get him on pinkies if at all possible anyway, since I know they are supposed to be best, with a few fish for treats. But those minnows are still untouched for now.

He calmed down a lot yesterday afternoon and I was able to hold him - as did my dad and my little sister. Then this morning he was crazy active again. I think maybe he is just more active in the morning/early afternoon. Is this normal? Either way, he seems to be doing really well!

A couple more question
1. I do not think the area on his head is retained shed, honestly... I think it is perhaps an injury. I say this because it really looks like it is indented down into his head, not on top? I could of course be wrong but that is what it maybe looks like. I am also concerned about one of his eyes. The left eye looks clear, orange with a nice black pupil. But the right eye is totally dark and murky, all black with a red streak across the middle. Could he have damaged this eye, and if so should I be doing something about it? I can possibly look into taking some eye pictures tonight.

2. About cage clean-up, do I clean up excrement when I see it, or do I leave it and change out entire substrate once a... however often I need to do that? Please let me know! :)

3. Finally, like I said I am interested in getting him on pinkies ASAP. I know that I should start by "scenting" them, but do I need to cut them up or feed whole? Also, do I simply place it in his cage like with worms or do I hand-feed using tongs?

Thanks so much for all of your help; without you all helping me I am not sure Silv would be doing as well as he is! :)

[kibakiba]

I don't like it when people say "pinkies are best" pinkies aren't the best, they aren't the magic food that makes your snakes 100% healthy. A big variety is healthier. My snakes are fed salmon, tilapia, worm with the occasional pinky parts. They are very healthy.

When your handling snakes to calm them down, the can take a few steps back. Its a part of their process of learning to trust you.

You need a reptile specialized vet to check his head and eye out. It does sound like its damaged. It doesn't sound like he'd be able to see out of his eye.

I use carefresh and just pick up bits of poop that I find and do a full clean every 2 months. The full clean includes washing the tank and scrubbing it down with 9 parts water and 1 part bleach.

Feeding whole or cut up depends on his size, if its a baby, you need to cut it up for him. If its smaller than his head I'm sure he'd be able to take it. Scenting should be done with his favourite food. What I did to get Mama to eat a pinky was cut up her favourite food, worms, and put them in a dish with a frozen/thawed pinky on top. I covered it in the worm blood so it'd smell like worm, not pinky. I find it easier to get them to eat if it's in a dish rather than on tongs, especially if they're used to eating food that's set inside their tank.
My babies won't eat from dishes or tongs, only from my fingers because that's how I've always fed them. My adults take them from tongs (tweezers for me) or from a dish. It's usually a fish since they don't eat pinkies often.

[Ryachanira]

I wish I had been able to take him to a good herp vet the first time around... she was really nice and helpful, but she did not specialize in reptiles and I don't think she knew everything. I did the best I could on short notice though. :\

Here are some shots of Silv's head:

Left eye and head injury:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvHead1.jpg

Right eye (blurry, sorry):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvHead2.jpg

Right eye again:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvHead3.jpg

Basically, it seems to me that his right eye is very cloudy black, maybe occasionally I see a bit of red reflecting through it. His left eye seems more clear and orange with a black pupil. It looks to me like the head is an injury, not retained shed? But I will leave it up to you snake experts...

If he needs a vet how would you suggest I go about finding a good herp vet?

[kibakiba]

He definitely does look like he has a head injury. I'd put some neosporin on his head. perhaps look in the phone book and call the vets and ask them what they know about garters and if they can help you. I've never taken a snake to the vet, I have no way to afford it at all.

[ConcinusMan]

This injury looks old and already pretty much healed.

[guidofatherof5]

Definitely taken some kind of trauma to the head. There's a good chance his vision is very bad.
Keep him warm, watered and fed. That's all you can do at this point.
I'm not sure a Vet. can do anything for him but it never hurts to get an experts opinion(which I'm not).
To find a Vet. you might call a Zoo or contact a local college that offers Herpetology. They may be able to direct you. A pet shop that sells reptiles may also know of someone.
Best of luck and thanks once again for showing concern for this little one.

[infernalis]

Don't lose hope ;) They are very resilient animals.

Steve can attest, sometimes folks here find wild snakes that have survived worse on their own while still in the wild.

[mustang]

ouch poor little guy

[Ryachanira]

Sounds like you all don't think there is much a vet could do for him anyway.. and I have to say after already spending $300 on the little guy we are not exactly rolling in the dough ourselves anymore, heh. We might just watch him for awhile.

Here is one more picture of the eye that looks injured:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvInjuredEye.jpg

I wiped down the top of his head with a warm, damp cotton ball and then applied neosporin to both his head and tail. He thanked me by pooping on me.. I think it is his favorite activity, haha. Any other ideas on what could be done for him at home? As sad as it is, I figure that even with poor eyesight, as long as he can eat and get around his cage he should be fine. Just more of a reason that he needed us to take him in!

He didn't eat his worm today.. I cut it up for him and everything (yuck) after I noticed it kept crawling away from him. Oh well, try try again tomorrow! I am still getting a feeling for how often he likes to eat. :)

[Charis]

While it looks like he might be blind in that eye, IMO, it doesn't look like the eye is infected. I'm not sure what more to recommend than what you are already doing.
I have a garter that is missing one of her eyes due to an infection & she gets around well & is thriving. I know of a number of other snakes that are missing one or both eyes, usually due to live prey & negligent owners, that also do just fine.

[guidofatherof5]

That last photo really shows the extent of the injury. I admire you for your efforts on his behalf. As long as this injury doesn't have future effect he should be able to live well with you. I wouldn't change his cage around very often as he will get used to where things are.
He is in my prayers.

[ConcinusMan]

I tend to agree. I think it's best that you provide the best for him at this point. A stable and comfortable home free of stress, and all the food he desires. His injuries look to be beyond the need for veterinary care.

You're it. You're all he has. Can you handle it? Just make him comfortable, provide for his needs, and with a little help from above, and from us, he can live a good life with you. I'm sure if he had been left to the wild, he wouldn't last long. All you can do, is make things easier and perhaps extend his life by providing good climate and protection from predators.:D

[infernalis]

Had he been left in the wild, he would already be dead by now.

[mustang]

hope he recovers

[Ryachanira]

Thanks for the comments, as well as for your thoughts and prayers for Silv! I will do my best to treat his head injury at home and home his eye does not become infected at any point. Hopefully he can make it through this injury and live a long, happy life! Dan and I kind of figured he would have already been dead if we left him outside, so it is good to know we have at least helped some!

I am a bit concerned about him today... he is not active at all like he has been the past few days. For four days (Sat-Tues) he was really active in the morning/early afternoon. Today he is pretty much totally listless again. He hasn't eaten since... Friday I think? Maybe Saturday. Today instead of placing the worms in his main cage, I put him and the worm in the small carrier we got for him, since I had read putting them in an enclosed place with prey can be helpful. After an hour and a half of totally ignoring the worm, I cut it up into four smaller pieces. Still being ignored, and he is still not moving much. I know I have read on here that snakes can go several day/even weeks without food, so I am not sure if it is too early to be worried. But since he has all of these other issues going on, I am pretty concerned for him. Any other suggestions on getting him to eat, or should I just worry less and try again tomorrow? I had considered getting him some guppies, putting a really thin layer of water on the small carrier floor to let them splash around in, and putting him in there... but he has not eaten any fish yet so I am not sure if that would work.

[mustang]

Thanks for the comments, as well as for your thoughts and prayers for Silv! I will do my best to treat his head injury at home and home his eye does not become infected at any point. Hopefully he can make it through this injury and live a long, happy life! Dan and I kind of figured he would have already been dead if we left him outside, so it is good to know we have at least helped some!

I am a bit concerned about him today... he is not active at all like he has been the past few days. For four days (Sat-Tues) he was really active in the morning/early afternoon. Today he is pretty much totally listless again. He hasn't eaten since... Friday I think? Maybe Saturday. Today instead of placing the worms in his main cage, I put him and the worm in the small carrier we got for him, since I had read putting them in an enclosed place with prey can be helpful. After an hour and a half of totally ignoring the worm, I cut it up into four smaller pieces. Still being ignored, and he is still not moving much. I know I have read on here that snakes can go several day/even weeks without food, so I am not sure if it is too early to be worried. But since he has all of these other issues going on, I am pretty concerned for him. Any other suggestions on getting him to eat, or should I just worry less and try again tomorrow? I had considered getting him some guppies, putting a really thin layer of water on the small carrier floor to let them splash around in, and putting him in there... but he has not eaten any fish yet so I am not sure if that would work.slowing down isnt a good sign....my previous snake started to slow down and died when it was too late....look under the snake at its belly scales.....if anythings really wrong you might see it. (after my last snake died my i looked under him and he had a green blotch where e should have had usual tan ventricle scales)

[ConcinusMan]

That sounds like he was septic Robert. Possibly gangrene.

Well, Jenny... you have to face the fact that the snake might be dying so prepare yourself for that.:(

[Ryachanira]

Don't see anything unusual on the belly scales. I tried the flopping guppy trick but he still had no interest. They are in his water bowl now. Maybe flopping fish are less enticing when you can't see very well. Will try worms again tomorrow.

I know he may be dying - I have been trying to prep for that since we brought him in to the house a week ago. It is still hard though, I am already so attached! :(

I figure, at worst I gave him love and care and comfort for a week or more. At best, I can give him that for several years to come! We will see what happens; I will continue to keep you guys posted.

Cute cuddly baby: :)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/CuddlySilv.jpg

[mustang]

That sounds like he was septic Robert. Possibly gangrene.


what are those problems...i just assumed some organ broke...the last 3rd of his body before the vent was skinny (the belly scales were sucked upwards making the shape of a rainbow) and that area was green from the inside

[guidofatherof5]

I have a blind Checkered. I feed him in a small round container. With 4 or 5 flopping guppies in a little water, blind or not he catches his dinner.
Give it a try.
Good luck.

[ConcinusMan]

He looks to be in pretty good shape. I mean, he's not emaciated or even thin. He looks to have at least several weeks without food, before there is a need to "write him off". Heck, I've had perfectly healthy snakes go a very long time without food, and get much thinner than he is, and then bounce back again. He looks fine so there's hope for the short term.:D

Try this:

Make sure his "day" begins and ends at the same time every day for one thing. Give him a night time drop of about 10 degrees if you can manage. Then, increase his day length by a few minutes each day, and make sure his day gives him the opportunity to warm up to about 85 F. Humidity is also important. Keep it 50-70 percent, but at the same time, keep his substrate dry and on the cool end, provide a hide that is somewhat damp inside in case he's feeling a bit dry. In any case, keep his bottom dry but provide a damp place in case that is what he wants.

Try feeding at different times of the day and different light levels. Some snakes are stimulated to eat only at certain times of the day. Shortly after a cool night, followed by a morning warm-up is usually a good time to try feeding. If that doesn't work, let him have a nice warm day, and try feeding in the evening before bed time, when things start to cool off.;)

I highly recommend a somewhat natural light spectrum for any diurnal snake. I use reptisun 18 inch florescent bulbs in addition to basking warming incandescent bulbs. Even if a bulb doesn't warm them like an incandescent would, a natural spectrum "grow light" florescent for reptiles or plants helps to stimulate activity and appetite in diurnal reptiles. Garters tend to get listless or "depressed" if they don't get "natural" daytime spectrum of light.

The only exception would be a blind or albino snake. Never expose an albino to intense light or UV rays. "blind" snakes may not be blind totally and certain light spectrum or intensity can stress them out. Any snake should have the option to hide and not be exposed to the light, if he so chooses.

[Ryachanira]

Quick update: he still hasn't eaten (as far as I am aware, I am pretty sure all worms are accounted for in the trash, heh). I have tried feeding in his small box and in his cage, fish and worms, live and cut, morning and night, different lighting... but still no luck. Oh well. He is at least more active again, and I have seen him drink several times so that is good. He LOVES the fake plants on the side of the cage, he is crawling up those constantly. He continues to open his mouth up really huge and just leave it like that for a couple seconds, still not sure what that means (although it is pretty cute). The vet thought that maybe due to his head injury it is helping him breath/smell better?

I don't have his day/night cycle regulated just yet, we are looking for a good timer. right now I just turn on his day light when I wake up and turn on his night light around when it gets dark, or as close to it as possible. Here are the two lights I have:

60 watt "sun glo" for day: Exo Terra - Products : Sun Glo Neodymium (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/sun_glo_neodymium.php)

50 watt "night glo" for night:Exo Terra - Products : Night Glo (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/night_glo.php)

I use these 24 hrs; daytime temps in cage are usually right around 80, nighttime 70 (on the lighted side). The humidity is harder; I spray it several times a day but it drops to 30 quickly. I may try a different substrate later.

Should I add another light such as these florescents? Exo Terra - Products : Compact Fluorescent Bulbs (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php) I don't want him to get snake depression...