Lumpy concinnus

[guidofatherof5]

This little T.s.concinnus(Red Spotted Garter Snake) has developed a lump on it left side.
The lump is soft to the touch and pliable. It hasn't affect the snake in any way that I can see. The little one is active and eats like a pig.
It's as if air has gotten trapped under the skin.
I'm in a holding pattern on this as I don't want to make things worse.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/lumpy_concinnus.jpg

[kibakiba]

Poor little one. Hopefully s/he's okay! I wonder what it could be.

[infernalis]

I have a radix here Steve that had a very similar condition, it had gotten pinched trying to escape and it was a "blood blister"

it took 2 months for the snake to reabsorb the blood, and the blister vanished.

Not saying that is the case here, but a possibility. ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Hmm... weird. Haven't seen anything like that with the rest of them but one holdback stopped eating a few weeks ago. I found him dead this morning, and also one of the baby ordinoides was found dead, curled up in a perfect circle. I have no explanation but they are only 2 months old. Seems like a few always do this. Even babies that are eating well and thriving can turn up dead for no apparent reason:( or rapidly decline.

I wonder if it might be an injury from a food fight? You've seen how mean and nasty those concinnus get with each other at feeding time.

I hope it isn't serious and the little guy makes it.

[Odie]

I am thinking fluks :eek:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Felicia_08.JPG
Thats what caused Fleshia's bump :o

[guidofatherof5]

Definitely something to keep in mind.
Good idea to bring up.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Flukes? Now how the heck would they get something like that?:confused: They are only about 2 months old, captive born, and kept in their own enclosure since birth.(until sent to Steve)

I've only fed them store-bought coho salmon, tilapia, steelhead, night crawlers, and f/t pinky parts. The worms are the only thing not kept frozen solid until feeding time.

I can understand if a slug/snail eating T. ordinoides got infected but I don't see a way the concinnus babies would have any parasites.:confused:

Do night crawlers pose a risk of carrying flukes? Because the company that sells my supply plainly says that they are collected from the willamette valley.(essentially, they are wild canadian night crawlers)

[Selkielass]

As I understand it (ANd I could me misinformed.)
Sushi grade fish is flash frozen to *extremely* low temperatures to kill off any parasites that might have hitched a ride.

Regular grade fish is not subject to such rigorous handling, and the chances are higher that parasites might still be present. Its a pretty small chance, but still there.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh crud. I did feed them WC coho, never frozen, once when they were about 3 weeks old. :o It was from the supermarket and caught the day before.

I feel terrible now. Thanks.:rolleyes:

[Selkielass]

Don't feel bad.
The US food supply is really very very safe.
The chances of something bad sneaking in are slim, but they do happen occasionally.
Parasites can be found in farmed fish too, and I think we have all read stories about 'bad' batches of feeder fish.
You're giving your snakes an immeasurably better diet than they would ever get in the wild. Fish intended for human consumption is very good but there is no such thing as 100% safe.
90% easily. 99% maybe, but there will always be some element of risk to life, food, travel, sports or what have you.
I think the joy of living without that shadow of fear and regret makes a certain level of risk acceptable, and even necessary. Heck, if it ain't the parasites in the raw fish its vitamins lost in cooking or other nutritional issues.
We all do the best we can in each of our situations.

Besides, we don't yet know if it *is* a fluke or a worm or what.


Can a mother snake pass worms to her offspring before birth the way a dog does?

[Odie]

Can a mother snake pass worms to her offspring before birth the way a dog does?
:eek: same here :confused:

[Ctah_Lu]

i have a thamnophis whit simmilar symptoms, its there any
treatment for this parasites?

[guidofatherof5]

You first have to know that it is a parasite problem. That usually means the swollen area has to be opened so the possible parasite can be identified.
Then a Vet. can offer treatment options.

[zooplan]

Can a mother snake pass worms to her offspring before birth the way a dog does?
They normally do not!
The gravidity of a snake is quite different to those of mamals.
The worms, that are adapted to dogs, would not be able to breed in snakes successfully.
But there is a wide spread of parasite worm species, so the best way remainig is to keep parents clean.

[ConcinusMan]

Have we even established that this is a parasite? My baby concinnus have never been kept with any other snakes that could pass parasites onto them, and they have never been fed anything that I can think of to give them parasites. I'm not saying it's impossible, just not very likely. None of the babies I still have show anything remotely like this. Updates Steve?

[guidofatherof5]

Since my last post I did loss another small slow eater. I still think I have 1 maybe 2 that are on the edge.
The lumpy ones are still lumpy and doing great. I'm trying to get some size on them before I look into the problem.
I don't think it's parasites. More likely some kind of internal blister/hemorrhage.

[ConcinusMan]

You mean there's more than one lumpy one? I wonder if this is some sort of injury that happened after you got them? I never noticed any lumps before I shipped.

I fully expected you to lose some if not all of those smaller, trouble feeder ones that I sent to see if you save them. You're doing a great job and they are still doing better than I expected. I think I sent 11 of those if I remember right. How many have been lost so far, do you know? Anyway, I think it's fewer than I expected by this time.

For those of you that don't know what's going on, I picked 11 babies out of the 54 born this year. They were "failure to thrive" babies. I sent them to Steve (no charge for snakes) knowing he has a special touch with babies, hoping that some could be saved. So far, he's doing a great job but you can't save them all.

[guidofatherof5]

Two with lumps. No place here for them to get injuries, other than bites from cage mates.
I've only lost 2 out of the original 11.

[ConcinusMan]

And I've lost 5, and that's out of the healthier ones I didn't send. Two of those were my high black 3-stripers but they never were doing all that well. That's only 7 so far out of about 50. Not bad at all. Not great, but not that bad.

[ConcinusMan]

One of the very high black 3-stripe concinnus babies that didn't make it. I'm so disappointed. He was so unusual for a concinnus and if I didn't know any better I'd swear he wasn't a concinnus at all. R.I.P. little fella.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7576/1006medium.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

[zooplan]

The dead are beyond our care and sorrow,
so save them for the dependants.
The dead are beyond our care and sorrow,
so lets fight for the survivors.

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks Steve for fighting for the survivors. You're doing an outstanding job. I'd say so even if less than half remain 6 months from now. Keep up the good work and as soon as you know any more about the lumps, do keep us posted.