Albino T.s.parietalis on the Ranch

[guidofatherof5]

This afternoon I received a call from a friend who was volunteering at a local nature center. He advised me a man called in and wanted to give the center an albino garter snake he had found in his yard. The center didn't want it so my friend told him he would call me and give me his contact information.
I contacted the guy by phone. He stated he found the snake in his yard and thought it was cool. While talking to him I asked if I could come and take some photos of the snake. He told me I could have it. By his description I didn't think it was a radix.
So, to make a long story short I give you(meaning I'm introducing it to you. You can't have it:D). This handsome, male T.s.parietalis(Red Sided Garter Snake)
He wouldn't let me let me get a photo of his underside tail but it is red.
Sorry about the photos, one was with flash and one was without.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/albino_T_s_p.jpg http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/albino_T_s_p1.jpg

[otis lee]

very cool! congrats!there everywhere there everywhere...

[guidofatherof5]

there everywhere there everywhere...

Living the dream.:D

[Selkielass]

What a charming little guy!
Are these native to your area or do you think this guy got away from somebody?

[guidofatherof5]

What a charming little guy!
Are these native to your area or do you think this guy got away from somebody?

He's native. Seem the radixes like to live in town and the parietalis like the country life.:D

[Selkielass]

Sweet!
I'm trying to figure out where the Butlers garters might like to live in my area.
I remember catching super-stripey snakes as a kid, but my old haunts are now subdivisions. (I've spotted out a few good looking ditches and canals, and we shall see what spring turns up.) I wish it was as simple as country vs city, but Butlers appear to like both.

[infernalis]

Great acquisition Steve

[MasSalvaje]

I don't know how you do it Steve! I am starting to get a little jealous.:)

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

I don't know how you do it Steve! I am starting to get a little jealous.:)

-Thomas

I've got many Ranch minions out there.:D

The truth is many of my friends watch out for me.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Red radixes and milk snakes, and a new albino seems like every week. No fair.:(

[gregmonsta]

Congrats on that one :)

[Jeff B]

Very nice looking snake Steve, yep he is exactly what I envisioned a more Iowa type red-sided would look like as an albino, since the red-sideds I find around here have less yellow and are more black background with the red checkers, this translate to the background areas behind the orange checkers being purple where the black was, and the fleshtone/whiter areas on the bottom half rather than the bright yellow of the kansas strain. This could be a completely different type of albino gene or at a different loci, or a different allele, than the current kansas strain albino, it will be very interesting to see if it is compatible with the kansas strain down the road sometime. First things first get this guy acclimated to captivity and in good shape to breed next spring and make lots of babies and then next generation prove out and make more albinos, assuming it is a simple recessive, which likely it is.
Cool acquisition Steve, thanks for calling me, almost missed it.
Hmmmm I think I would have rather found that albino red-sided and you would have rather found the peachy red radix I found, seems kinda backwards doesn't it?

[guidofatherof5]

I just got back from where this albino was found. I met the guy that found it for the first time today. It's such a small world. He tells me I had all 4 of his kids in the D.A.R.E. program and that his son became a police officer because of my time with him.

I didn't see any snakes today. It was in the low 70's and sunny.
He did tell me that he saw another lighter colored snake. He said it was small and must have went down a hole because it just disappeared.
Hoping this lighter colored one will survive the Winter and maybe next Spring I can find it.
Here's a photo of the den entrance.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/den2.jpg

[Chondro788]

Congrats, what an awesome find, more diversity is always a good thing! :)

[Mommy2many]

Okay, here's the deal:

1) Send the snake to ME
2) Introduce Snake to Eastern ladies of persuasion (aka Stewie & Midnight)
3) Snake, me and Ladies happy campers


What's not to love?

[guidofatherof5]

He started eating this morning. Worm chunk were on the menu and he's chowing down. I was afraid he was in that pre-brumation fast and it would take awhile to break it but Dad's Sunday morning worm chunk recipe was too much for him.
Kind of like us and bacon:D

I'll try to get some updated photos later int he day.
I've got a plummer coming in to run water to my big snake room. Did some bartering for the job. He needed a snake enclosure and I needed a plummer. I love the barter system.:)

[infernalis]

I love the barter system.:)


Me too. Great trade Steve.

[Mommy2many]

What kind of snake does your plumber have?

[Tyrel26]

What kind of snake does your plumber have?

a toilet snake :P

[guidofatherof5]

What kind of snake does your plumber have?

He's into hots. Mostly vipers but he has a few rattle snakes also.
He's getting a Rhinoviper in next week.
Rhinoceros Viper: WhoZoo (http://www.whozoo.org/Anlife99/jasonlip/rhinoviperindex.htm)

[Mommy2many]

What kind of snake does your plumber have?

a toilet snake :P


I just read your response to my Husband, who said in kind, "That's what I would have probably said"

Figures:rolleyes:

[Tyrel26]

haha great minds think alike!

[Mommy2many]

Something like that...;)

[Tyrel26]

lol

[guidofatherof5]

Here's an updated photo. This photo has only been cropped.
I used a Sony camcorder to take the photo. It has a great lens on it.
Very true colors.
I'm trying to locate my close up lens to get a few facial photos.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/t_s_p_almale.jpg

Here's those close ups.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tspalmale.jpg http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tspalmale1.jpg

[MlizGr]

Absolutely gorgeous! The more I see of your collection the more I consider getting another garter myself. You are very lucky!

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks, Megan.
I feel very blessed to have the wonderful snakes that I do.
The most enjoyable part is the fact they are so docile and easy to handle.
They get very comfortable with my family and seem to want to be taken out.
Many of my groups will wait at the front of an opened enclosure. They very rarely try to get out. With that being said, I have a few groups that would love for me to walk away. They'd be out in a shot.
The problem for them is they get hungry and come out to me after being loose for awhile.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh wait a sec. I changed our deal.(jk) You can have the snakes we talked about today (actually yesterday) privately. Send no money. Just send that snake. That's all. Just that one snake you got for free and I'll send you the snakes we agreed on. I'll pay the shipping, you pay nothing.

*wishful thinking*:rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Oh wait a sec. I changed our deal.(jk) You can have the snakes we talked about today (actually yesterday) privately. Send no money. Just send that snake. That's all. Just that one snake you got for free and I'll send you the snakes we agreed on. I'll pay the shipping, you pay nothing.

*wishful thinking*:rolleyes:

Sorry, he's already told me he wants to stay on the Ranch, after seeing the ladies he'll be servicing next Spring.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Shoot. Once again, I can't offer him a sweeter deal than that. You win again.:rolleyes:

You must send me a pair of hets when they arrive. Don't make me beg.:(

[radtad]

He looks to me like he would like to visit Colorado (LOL). He is a great looking snake.

[guidofatherof5]

He looks to me like he would like to visit Colorado (LOL). He is a great looking snake.

He may visit but that will be with the rest of the family on a vacation.:D
We'll all stop by and say hi.

[guidofatherof5]

He continues to eat well. At this time he's eating only night crawlers.
He's got some fridge time in about a month.
That's his vacation before he starts work:D
I've got 5 ladies I would like him to work with.

[ae88weaver]

I don't know how you do it Steve! I am starting to get a little jealous.:)

-Thomas


I don't know how you do it either!! Maslow was the first one I've found and I've been on the prowl my whole life!! He's beautiful :)

[ae88weaver]

Sweet!
I'm trying to figure out where the Butlers garters might like to live in my area.
I remember catching super-stripey snakes as a kid, but my old haunts are now subdivisions. (I've spotted out a few good looking ditches and canals, and we shall see what spring turns up.) I wish it was as simple as country vs city, but Butlers appear to like both.

Do you mean I'm lucky to have my angel boy Freud (a supposed Butler)?? I mean I know I'm very lucky because he is so wonderful but I mean in that he is that type of garter...:D

[Selkielass]

I told you I was jealous when I got a good look at him at the fish store!
I *LOVE* high yellow and strongly striped garters, and eventually I want a high colored Butler like I remember from my childhood.
Some day, when the time is right, the right one will cross my path.

You are very lucky Freud is shaping up to be a sweetie. Most garters do with patience, but some, especially wild caught ones, remain jumpy. Still I count myself lucky to have had Abby be the wild snake that resparked my interest in garters- she's one of the sweetest tempered, most docile snakes I've ever met. She spent nearly an hour this evening curled around my 5 yr olds neck like a Margot de Tasco snake necklace. Williams Gallery West Jewelry Margot de Taxco choker-style enamel and silver snake necklace (http://www.galwest.com/jewelry/taxco_jewelry/margot%20de%20taxco_snake.htm)

[zooplan]

Cogratulations, Steve!
That´s a very lucky adoption.
You can see. that his parents were as dark as your females ( all the pink scales would be black without the amelanistic gene ). he´s locking very well: Good proportions, clear eyes and no deformations.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tspalmale1.jpg
Are you shure that he´s young? Have you measured his length and weight? From the true colored picture I would guess, that is is at least 3 years old. ( the skin becomes thicker with each shed, normal colored snakes will become darker, amelanistics become paler )
I would be interested, if it is the same amelansitic gene as the Kansas-strain!

[guidofatherof5]

Cogratulations, Steve!
That´s a very lucky adoption.
You can see. that his parents were as dark as your females ( all the pink scales would be black without the amelanistic gene ). he´s locking very well: Good proportions, clear eyes and no deformations.

Are you shure that he´s young? Have you measured his length and weight? From the true colored picture I would guess, that is is at least 3 years old. ( the skin becomes thicker with each shed, normal colored snakes will become darker, amelanistics become paler )
I would be interested, if it is the same amelansitic gene as the Kansas-strain!


He's 34 grams and 22 inches/55.88 cm
He feels young to me but I'm basing this off how a young radix male feels.
You mentioned something about the skin becoming thicker with age. He feels soft. Not near as rough a feel as older snakes.
Of course, this is subjective to many things. I may be off base with this.
In any event he's seems healthy and feels strong. Spring will tell about breeding. I want to at least produce a good number of hets. to work with.

After posting this he decided to come out for a bath.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/albino_T_s_p5.jpg

[BUSHSNAKE]

lucky for us the snake is in good hands, awesome snake Steve! ...is there something in the water over there?

[guidofatherof5]

lucky for us the snake is in good hands, awesome snake Steve! ...is there something in the water over there?

It's a snake:D
Sorry, I just had to.:D

I've had a good year and you won't hear me complaining.
I've been fortunate that the word is out about me an garter snakes.
I still have a friend that only live a mile away that says he saw an albino garter snake in his yard last year. Hoping he'll call when he sees it again.

[ConcinusMan]

After posting this he decided to come out for a bath.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/albino_T_s_p5.jpg

Oh man that snake is awesome! :eek:

[guidofatherof5]

He continues to grow and just went through another shed. He has a good appetite and doesn't seem to mind being handled.
He had his last meal over the weekend and will enter brumation in a couple of weeks. His girlfriends will hit the fridge about the same time.
I have 3 females I hope he will breed with in the Spring.

[gregmonsta]

He's looking great :D

[guidofatherof5]

He's my young man chillin' in the fridge with a couple of his lady friends.
Hoping in about about a month he'll be seeing some action.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/chillin_.jpg

[zooplan]

Looks like "Fridge Hotel".
daly fresh towels for each room:D

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like "Fridge Hotel".
daly fresh towels for each room:D

At the T.radix Ranch their comfort is our greatest concern.
Helps to keep our 5 star rating.:D

[guidofatherof5]

Pulled my male albino T.s.p out of the fridge tonight. I'll let him do a slow warmup over the next 48 hours then back in his enclosure.
Hoping he'll start eating and then in a couple weeks introduce his lady friends who are still chillin' out.

[guidofatherof5]

Creampuff started eating tonight.
He downed a big crawler. He's got a little over a week to get his strength up and batteries recharged.
Then he'll have some ladies to work with.:D

[kibakiba]

Yay! Go Creampuff! :D

[guidofatherof5]

He appears to be back to normal. He ate an additional worm last night and one this morning.
He's back in his enclosure awaiting the females.
I felt he was a little under weight when I put him in brumation and only gave him a month in.

[guidofatherof5]

All my Red Sided garters are eating and eating well.
My large female(new to the ranch last year) is in opaque. Hoping once she sheds to see some breeding action out of my albino male. So far he's shown no interest in any of the 3 ladies he's in with.

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/den2.jpg
The owner of this property gave me a call to let me know the snakes were active at his den site. I'll be heading there later in the day. Expecting highs in the 60's. It would be pretty cool to see an albino come out of the den.

[infernalis]

Good luck Steve, take lots of pics.

[mustang]

good luck! bring back a big one!LOL

[guidofatherof5]

I wish I had good breeding news but I don't. He has the pick of 3 beautiful girls and to my knowledge, no nothing (I know it's a double negative:D)
I'm not discouraged as the real breeding season isn't here yet.

The good news is, he's now a pinky eater (unscented).
All my T.s.parietalis are eating pinkies now.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Fingers crossed.

[mustang]

good luck!

[ConcinusMan]

The owner of this property gave me a call to let me know the snakes were active at his den site. I'll be heading there later in the day. Expecting highs in the 60's. It would be pretty cool to see an albino come out of the den.

Well you know there's at least hets living there.:cool: Another albino is likely to happen if that's the case. Just a matter of being in the right place at the right time for spotting one. Since this is a den, being there early in the season when things warm up, I'd say that's the right place and time.:D

[guidofatherof5]

Here's an updated photo of Creampuff, my albino Red Sided garter snake.. He's starting to fill out.
He was given a shortened brumation period this year because he was so lean when he arrived on the Ranch.
Still no breeding activity from him but I have confidence that he will do his job.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/little_male1.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

What a handsome guy!!! Talking about the snake steve haha.

[guidofatherof5]

What a handsome guy!!! Talking about the snake steve haha.


I know what you're saying.
I was so ugly when I was born the doctor slapped my Mom.:D

[ConcinusMan]

That's also why dads sometimes faint when they first see the baby right?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Poor mom she didn't deserve it.

[ConcinusMan]

Are you sure? You haven't seen Steve's face have you? (jk):p

[BLUESIRTALIS]

It's not always the mothers fault. I'm so glad my son looks like his mother because if he looked like me it would be horrific.

[guidofatherof5]

I thought I would post this photo and get some opinions.
As I fed this beautiful female albino T.s.parietalis (thanks Joe) I notice some scale spread on her lower 1/3rd.
She has been in with a male albino for awhile so I'm hoping he did his job and babies maybe on the way.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/pregoT_s_p.jpg

[katach]

Beautiful is an understatement!

[zooplan]

I wonder how much you´ve fed her?
I can seen some scale spread at the upper 1/3 of her body:D



...too

[gregmonsta]

I thought I'd mansion that, even though I'm not a fan of albinos, I do like these types the best ;)

[chris-uk]

I thought I'd mansion that, even though I'm not a fan of albinos, I do like these types the best ;)

With a comment like that I think you're forgetting your manors Greg. :)

[BUSHSNAKE]

may i mention this is an OUTCROSS project. The male and female are completely unrelated and its also to test to see if they are compatible.

[ConcinusMan]

Beautiful is an understatement!

Always loved red or orange on an albino. Albino red sideds are specatcular.

If I had to state it in just two words...

"Eye candy"

[Invisible Snake]

Any updates Steve?

[guidofatherof5]

Everyone doing fine and growing. I'll have to get an updated photo to post.

[guidofatherof5]

Here are the two males I have left. Both ate today.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/tsp22.jpg

[Invisible Snake]

Sweet looking albinos, thanks for the update.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm down to one male and one female. That larger male is spoken for.

[katach]

He's so pretty!

[Dan72]

Great looking snakes, love these guys. Glad everyone is doing good. All that ranch loving!

[scorpion0151]

I'd love some albino red sideds, they're stunning :)

[EasternGirl]

Little Joe did not want any pinky tonight. He loves his worms and trout though! I need to get some better pics of him to post! He's a lovely little snake...and very friendly too.

[guidofatherof5]

Little Joe did not want any pinky tonight. He loves his worms and trout though! I need to get some better pics of him to post! He's a lovely little snake...and very friendly too.

Glad he is doing so well but not surprised, he is in your care after all;)

[guidofatherof5]

I wish this was a good update but it isn't. This morning I opened the enclosure to fine my male W/C albino T.s.parietalis (Red Sided Garter) dead.
This was a total surprise to me as he appeared to be in perfect health. Checking him over I found only one thing out of the ordinary (see photos). other then that everything seems normal. His vent was clean. I felt nothing out of the ordinary when I palpated him. Nothing swollen or bulges anywhere.
I just don't know what could have happened.


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/male_tsp.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/male_tsp1.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sorry to hear this!

[gregmonsta]

Feel for you mate. That discolouration does look odd.

[Invisible Snake]

Sorry for your loss :(

[chris-uk]

Feel for you mate. That discolouration does look odd.

It reminds me of blown blood vessels, if that's the case there could have been a haemorrhage somewhere more lethal. I don't know how likely that would be in a reptile. Unfortunately this will probably be another unknown cause.

Sorry to hear of your loss.

[Stefan-A]

Damn and blast.

[ProXimuS]

So sorry to hear about this :( Is this Tallie's father?

[guidofatherof5]

So sorry to hear about this :( Is this Tallie's father?

Yes it was.

[indigoman]

Sorry to read of your loss Steve.

[ConcinusMan]

Well that bites. Sorry Steve!

Did he father any offspring at least?

[Greg'sGarters]

My condolences. Freeze had that same nose discoloration on his nose right before he died. I just assumed it was frostbite but apparently not.

[guidofatherof5]

Well that bites. Sorry Steve!

Did he father any offspring at least?

Yes, some are in the U.S and others are in Bonn Germany.

[CrazyHedgehog]

aw, sorry to hear this, could the coloration happen afterwards? I know its unrelated, but mice often bleed around the noses after death, and from being slowly gassed not any sudden 'thwack'! its like once they die then the membranes seem to relax and bleed? (I am sure there is probably a more scientific correct reason) but could it be similar?

[Jeff B]

thats a bummer Steve. winter is hard on garter snakes.

[infernalis]

I wish this was a good update but it isn't. This morning I opened the enclosure to fine my male W/C albino T.s.parietalis (Red Sided Garter) dead.
This was a total surprise to me as he appeared to be in perfect health. Checking him over I found only one thing out of the ordinary (see photos). other then that everything seems normal. His vent was clean. I felt nothing out of the ordinary when I palpated him. Nothing swollen or bulges anywhere.
I just don't know what could have happened.


Such a shame. Sorry to hear this Steve.....

[thamneil]

That's really too bad. It happens to the best of us. Really sorry to hear that.

[zooplan]

Dear Steve,
I am so sorry for your loss!

Gladly I could tell, that the babies are doing fine.
The female is still tiny, but one of the males shed again yesterday.

[snake man]

Man, never a good thing. Sorry.

[Dan72]

Sorry Steve, complete bummer. I know others have been asking of their snakes but I have to inquire as well. Is this the father of Phoenix?

[guidofatherof5]

The last time I posted to this thread it was to report the death of my male W/C albino T.s.parietalis (Red Sided Garter Snake)

Time for some good news.

Born today (3-30-13) 12 healthy albino T.s.p. scrubs. Apparently my male got some work done before he passed.
Seems like forever since scrubs were born here. Mom is doing well and may have a few more to deliver.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/2013_T_s_p_albinos.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/2013_T_s_p_albinos1.jpg

[Greg'sGarters]

The legacy lives on!!!

[guidofatherof5]

They are soaking and I'm waiting for that first shed.

I'm also hoping he got some work done with my het. female.

[Invisible Snake]

Very nice! Congrats Steve! :)

[guidofatherof5]

Make that 13 scrubs.

Interesting info. Mom is opaque. Never had a snake deliver while being opaque.

[katach]

Beauteous!

[indigoman]

Great news Steve! I love this time of year, to read of all the new births. All my current ones are to young, I sure miss the anticipation.

[Selkielass]

Awww!, so cute!
Was the entire litter albino?

[guidofatherof5]

Awww!, so cute!
Was the entire litter albino?

Yes, yes they were.

[Jeff B]

Congrats Steve, nice looking group.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks everyone. I'm not a huge fan of albinos but these are sweet little scrubs. I'm glad their dad was able to leave me some of his gene pool to work with. There must be at least one male out of this group.:D

[Invisible Snake]

Thanks everyone. I'm not a huge fan of albinos..

Well then, since you're not a fan of albinos I'll take them all of your hands, free of charge of course lol :D

[guidofatherof5]

Well then, since you're not a fan of albinos I'll take them all of your hands, free of charge of course lol :D

Funny, funny.
Hence, the way I worded the post. "I'm not a huge fan" but yet a fan.;):D

[guidofatherof5]

Some of the new scrubs are already eating.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Congrats Steve! Nice looking little scrubs! Glad to see you can keep this gene going!

[BUSHSNAKE]

can you sex them??

[ConcinusMan]

Awww!, so cute!
Was the entire litter albino?

If mom and dad were both albino, (and assuming it's the same loci responsible for each of parents amelanism) then all babies could only be albino since neither parent has a normal allele to pass to the offspring. They each only have a pair of mutated alleles so that's all they have to pass on. It would be impossible for the babies to be anything but albino. They can't inherit something that neither parent has.

Nice litter Steve!

[guidofatherof5]

can you sex them??

If by your question you mean "pop" them. Then the answer would be no.
I'll just have to wait for them to get older, unless you want to swing by and do you thing Joe:D

[BUSHSNAKE]

If by your question you mean "pop" them. Then the answer would be no.
I'll just have to wait for them to get older, unless you want to swing by and do you thing Joe:D
Sure ill come sex them for you, its interesting to see the ratios they throw. i would like to do a video on sexing baby garters to show how easy it really is. its a useful tool.

[Jeff B]

Sure ill come sex them for you, its interesting to see the ratios they throw. i would like to do a video on sexing baby garters to show how easy it really is. its a useful tool.
Joey, don't make a video sexing baby garters.
You'll just shoot your eye out kid! lol ever watch the movie xmas story? Besides you might hurt their wittle tails.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Joey, don't make a video sexing baby garters.
You'll just shoot your eye out kid! lol ever watch the movie xmas story? Besides you might hurt their wittle tails.
Tell me about it!! ive already lost one eye

[Dan72]

Awesome Steve! I love albinos and will enjoy any and all future updates on this group. Congrats.

[guidofatherof5]

The little scrubs had their visit to a classroom today. They did very well.

[guidofatherof5]

Tilapia was on the menu for these little jewels.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/tilapia_tsp.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

At this point I have 9 eaters and 4 holdouts.
Looks like I'll need to buy a few guppies to get them started or try the earthworm trick.

[guidofatherof5]

All 4 non-eaters have been separated into containers and have a guess earthworm in with them. I'll report back on their progress in a few hours.
Hoping the earthworms will work their magic.

[katach]

Good luck!

[Invisible Snake]

Any luck with the 4 holdouts?

[ConcinusMan]

I want one of those so friggen bad. :( So far every time I've seen one I could afford or otherwise acquire, they were badly inbred, bug eyes, head tilted, stub tail, just genetically unfit.

[guidofatherof5]

Any luck with the 4 holdouts?

One ate but I may have put an eating model in there by mistake. The other 3 showed no interest in earthworm. Looks like I'll need to buy some guppies tomorrow.

[guidofatherof5]

The turkey heart fest continued into the albino T.s.parietalis paddock.

[BUSHSNAKE]

One ate but I may have put an eating model in there by mistake. The other 3 showed no interest in earthworm. Looks like I'll need to buy some guppies tomorrow.
just give them time im sure theyll come around for you

[guidofatherof5]

3 guppies went in but not a one came out. At least the way it went in.:D

I placed my 3 non-eaters in a small round container. I added some fishy water, 3 guppies and the 3 non-eaters. I then covered the container with a towel. 30 minutes later I checked things out. All 3 guppies were gone. It appears 2 of the scrubs ate. I'm very concerned for the one that didn't as it has a very visible gull bladder. None of the sibling are showing theirs.
Time will tell for this little one.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's mom to those babies. She is doing very well and pounding down the food.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/albino_tsp_female.jpg

[katach]

She sure is a looker!

[guidofatherof5]

The 3 non-eaters are in their own tub. I will report back on whether they are using the heated hide and start eating. If this all works out I'll be sending Thomas some Omaha Steaks.;):D

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like these guys like it cold. All 3 were under the cold yogurt lid rather then the warm hid.
I think 2 of them ate worm chunks today which leaves me with 1 non-eater.

[guidofatherof5]

Starting to see some new sheds with these new babies. 22 days after birth. I've got some strong eaters here.

[ConcinusMan]

Can't beat those wild genes. These are probably the only albino litter in a long time from two completely unrelated parents. 3 weeks and shedding again already. Can't beat that.

[Invisible Snake]

Here's mom to those babies. She is doing very well and pounding down the food.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/albino_tsp_female.jpg

She was a wildcaught as Richard previously stated? If so does she have the bug eyes like most of the CBB ones?

[guidofatherof5]

I looked into there tub and noticed them needed a water change.
This is what I found under the dish. As you can see from the photo some of them were curious as to what was going on.
Actually they are asking for some food. Spoiled rotten little scrubs.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/albino_tsp.jpg

[Invisible Snake]

Great picture Steve!

[guidofatherof5]

It was bath night for the 13 scrubs. I still have 3 that aren't even close to the others when it comes to eating, size and overall vigor.
One of them ventured into the food dish and mouthed a piece of worm then turned away and left. I offered that piece with hemostats but she showed no interest.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//773/medium/bath_time1.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

The smallest of the 3 none eater has passed away. She was probably too far gone to recover even though she had some food in her belly.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's something for thought. Since the non-eaters have started eating every day, they now hang out under the hide with the rest of their siblings.

Before eating-stay away from the other group.
After eating- stay with the group.

How about a a few hypotheses on this situation?

[guidofatherof5]

The snakes that were refusing night crawlers are now eating them. The rosy-tipped worms (Aporrectodea rosea) did their job.
The little picky eaters are taking night crawler chunks without hesitation.

[ConcinusMan]

She was a wildcaught as Richard previously stated? If so does she have the bug eyes like most of the CBB ones?

No. It's unknown if this one WC or not and no bug eyes, the bug eyes in the CBB ones isn't due to genetic defect like some Lucies, it shows up after many generations of inbreeding. Same thing can happen if you do that with normals. People are in a hurry to produce them because they only care about money so they take shortcuts. Nice thing about finally getting myself some of these is that the dame (mother, pictured here) doesn't show any signs of inbreeding defects and the sire (now deceased) was a WC albino. These babies may not be flashy and line bred for high red, but they are genetically superior to those that have been linebred for red and then severely inbred for the albino trait. Now, there's nothing really wrong with line breeding so long as it's done responsibly and outcrossed with WC every few generations or so. Also, inbreeding for albino is just about the only way to make more albinos unless, as in this case, you breed an albino to a completely unrelated WC albino. If I do any breeding (I'm only getting females) I'm still not going to inbreed. I will most likely breed them to a completely unrelated snow preferably but I probably can't afford one but I can afford an anery het for albino or something similar. That way all the babies will be 100% het for anery and on top of that, I could still produce some albinos too and they still won't be inbred. In fact, they will be ourcrossed 2 generations. Those could theoretically be safely inbred later to possibly produce some high quality snows, anery's and albinos. ;)

It would be very nice if Steve picked some of the reddest ones for that but I'll appreciate and love whatever he sends as long as they're healthy and strong and I know they will be/are. Got them to eat pinky parts yet Steve? By the time I get them it looks like I will be very well stocked with pinky rats and mice. Nothing would please me more than to be able to feed my snakes on just rodents or at least 80% rodents but that hasn't happened due to supply problems. I just can't afford to spend what it takes to get huge numbers from rodent suppliers.

[ProXimuS]

Such adorable little babies!! I know these had the same dad as Tallie, but is this the same mom too?

[ConcinusMan]

How about a a few hypotheses on this situation?

Haven't the foggiest unless the group happens to be occupying the only or warmest spot. Then it would make sense they need to go there to digest.

[chris-uk]

Haven't the foggiest unless the group happens to be occupying the only or warmest spot. Then it would make sense they need to go there to digest.

That would be my guess too. Occupy the spot with the best digestion temp.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah that's what I was going to say. Mine often curl up together under the lamp after a meal.

[ConcinusMan]

What I can't figure out is why my gravid girls will just about cook themselves during gestation except when birth is within a few days. Then they avoid the heat like the plague. One is doing that now. She's clinging to the coolest spot in the big tank which right now is only about 69 F. The others are sitting at about 89 F and haven't budged all day.

[RedSidedSPR]

Cold babies cry less.

[ConcinusMan]

OMG somebody slap Jesse for me. Scott??? drive over to his house and slap him for me.

[ConcinusMan]

http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/picard_ashamed.jpg

OMG somebody slap Jesse for me. Scott??? drive over to his house and slap him for me.
http://hindenes.com/trondsworking/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/head-slap.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Well they do..

[ConcinusMan]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g451/MichaelMyers87/StarTrekTripleFacePalm.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

http://i.imgur.com/gsRjbmM.gif

[paulh]

What I can't figure out is why my gravid girls will just about cook themselves during gestation except when birth is within a few days. Then they avoid the heat like the plague. One is doing that now. She's clinging to the coolest spot in the big tank which right now is only about 69 F. The others are sitting at about 89 F and haven't budged all day.
Just a guess here. Warmer temps (within limits) means faster growth. Faster growth means greater oxygen consumption. Maybe the cooler temps near the end of embryonic life is to lower oxygen consumption at this time. End of gestation is the time the embryos are biggest and have the highest oxygen needs, everything else being equal. There is a limit as to how much oxygen can be carried to the embryos.

[chris-uk]

Just a guess here. Warmer temps (within limits) means faster growth. Faster growth means greater oxygen consumption. Maybe the cooler temps near the end of embryonic life is to lower oxygen consumption at this time. End of gestation is the time the embryos are biggest and have the highest oxygen needs, everything else being equal. There is a limit as to how much oxygen can be carried to the embryos.

That makes sense.

[ConcinusMan]

It certainly does. I had a theory a while back about fully developed litters being born dead. I thought it was related to keeping them too warm. Another idea was that they disconnect from mothers gas-exchanging blood vessels (that's when the load shifts down) but then don't don't get out in time and suffocate. So, what you just said makes perfect sense. I did notice that live neonates are always born quite cool to the touch.

Running air conditioners this week because its hot weather. I think I'll keep their room at 68-70 F and maybe even turn off the bottom heat until the babies are born which will be any day now.

[RedSidedSPR]

Babies. I'm excited.

http://i.imgur.com/HP09aL8.gif

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, well I'm both excited and dreading it. From the looks of them I'll be overrun again. 90 last year. The babies aren't much to look at either. Just dark drab normal to hypoerythristic looking usually. The crown jewels of the litters don't reveal themselves until later as Steve and Gregmonsta can testify to. Drat!

One lousy holdback turned anery and that one didn't grow very well. Still very, very small for a 1 yr old.

[RedSidedSPR]

What do you think the chances of this litter eventually looking like their parents are

[ConcinusMan]

I have no idea. It's genetic polymorphism. What are the odds of winning a crap shoot? LoL.

I would say it's roughly a little bit better odds than finding the morph where they occur and that's only about 1 in 20. I don't know, I never bothered to count what the actual ratio is that I find. Since I'm able to pair two anerys instead of them breeding with whatever color, It might be better odds than what I find in the wild.

[RedSidedSPR]

Interesting..

Is this derailing Steve's thread?

[guidofatherof5]

Interesting..

Is this derailing Steve's thread?


Only one rail at this time.;)

[ConcinusMan]

oh shoot. Forgot where I was. Sorry Steve! Had i realized where I was I would have quoted, then copy and pasted someplace more appropriate, then replied.


Is this derailing Steve's thread?

Yeah. I fell asleep at the switch is what happened.

[guidofatherof5]

oh shoot. Forgot where I was. Sorry Steve! Had i realized where I was I would have quoted, then copy and pasted someplace more appropriate, then replied.


Not a problem.

[RedSidedSPR]

I was replying to, I meant both of us, not your posts Richard.