Difference between Eastern and Western Ribbons?

[Spankenstyne]

I know we have some Ribbon experts lurking about here. I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me differentiate between Eastern and Western Ribbon snakes.
I have very little experience with Ribbons and my guides only cover Western North American animals. There doesn't seem to be any substantial info available online, what I find seems to be the same info for both with just a slight possible max size difference and of course locality.

Any help would be great regarding what to look for physically that would tell them apart.

[guidofatherof5]

I found some quick info. I'll try to find more.
Western Ribbon:
HerpNet.net - Iowa Reptiles and Amphibians - Western Ribbon Snake - Thamnophis proximus (http://www.herpnet.net/Iowa-Herpetology/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=26)

Eastern Ribbon:
Eastern Ribbon Snake (http://www.umass.edu/nrec/snake_pit/pages/eribbon.html)

[Spankenstyne]

Oh thanks Steve!

Not being so tired now I can see some differences already. Looks like the westerns normally have a more orange dorsal stripe and blacker background colour than the easterns who seem to tend to have all yellow stripes and a more reddish brown background colour.

[indigoman]

The main difference i found listed was a wider dark lateral band on the western ribbon.

[count dewclaw]

Not trying to muddy the waters further, but I have this ribbon snake. I was told she is a coastal ribbon, which is a sub-species of the western, but I don't think she is typical...her light stripes are actually pale green.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/carrot1.JPG

[infernalis]

Carrot is looking good leanne....

[count dewclaw]

Wayne, that is actually an old photo, she is even bigger. I need to get a new photo and try to capture her true colors....

[count dewclaw]

I was looking for photos of Gulf Coast ribbons and this one does look more like Carrot than some...
Gulf Coast Ribbon Snake - Thamnophis proximus orarius (http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/jd/jdweb/Herps/species/USsnakes/Thaproora.htm)

I would still like to know if there are other distinguishing traits between eastern and western ribbons, though.

[infernalis]

Me too, I really like the ones with red stripes

BTW.. Carrot's little brother (the runt) is doing great, he has stunted growth though.. Eats like a champ just stays small.

[New Mutant]

Here's some pictures of my ribbon snake, Percy. I don't know what kind he is. His coloring looks a lot like the Western ribbon, but his snout is much shorter.

[gregmonsta]

This is Panama - an adult female .... advertised as an eastern .... definately a western .... and settled on Gulf-coast locale.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/500/medium/661155555.JPG

[infernalis]

Very very nice looking ribbon.

[count dewclaw]

Greg, what lead you to settle on Gulf Coast locale? I'm still trying to find out what the differences are....Panama looks great, but wasn't she blueish when you got her?

[gregmonsta]

Greg, what lead you to settle on Gulf Coast locale? I'm still trying to find out what the differences are....Panama looks great, but wasn't she blueish when you got her?

I used the Rossman descriptors (80% of it made sense). The telling thing seemed to be brownish hints in the black laterals and the black border on the lateral stripe not being uniform - ie broken up in places. Another member way back when also indicated she looked like their Gulf-coast ribbon. :rolleyes: The colour is all about lighting it's closer to turquoise.

Natural light -

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/500/medium/pnms.JPG

Also good at showing the brownish flecking and broken border touching the lateral stripe.

[count dewclaw]

Thanks, that helps. Guess I really need to think seriously about purchasing a copy of Rossman's book....