Unexpected sad news

[ConcinusMan]

One of my biggest 3 stripe girls who also happens to be a very good eater (she filled out quickly after giving birth) started some head twitching yesterday. I didn't think anything of it but a few minutes ago, I found her in a full seizure, trembling. When I picked her up, every muscle in her body was having spasms although she seems alert and aware. After handling her for while it seemed to subside but I know this can't be good. She's been acting her normal self and ate well yesterday (Tilapia).

Kind of a mystery at this point.:(

Whatever is going on, I hope it's not contagious. I have two big blue anery girls in there that are my pride and joy and really can't be replaced.

[infernalis]

Sorry to hear, Hope it works out.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like the kind of thing that has happened to a few of my snakes after eating store bought fish.
Not sure if that's the problem you're having. Something to think about though.
Good luck. Keep us posted.

[kibakiba]

Oh no, Richard! I hope shes okay! Maybe you can separate her from the other two for now?

[ConcinusMan]

They all ate it and I've been feeding it to the babies also. Same fillet and they've been eating on it for about 2 weeks. No signs of trouble with any others.

[prattypus]

Never a good way to start out a week, I am sorry to hear it. Hopefully she's able to overcome it-

[ConcinusMan]

Luckily she was one I had planned to sell (that won't be happening) and she wasn't the one I'm shipping out to Don next week.:cool:

[guidofatherof5]

They all ate it and I've been feeding it to the babies also. Same fillet and they've been eating on it for about 2 weeks. No signs of trouble with any others.

I would still hold the fish suspect. The only fish I've ever had good luck with is fresh caught, then frozen(60-90 days).
I think their are things used in the processing that may be causing these small snakes problems.
I have no proof or evidence to back up my statement but I have had no incidents of seizure type behavior since I stopped using store bought fish.

[ConcinusMan]

It's not the small one's that are having a problem. It's one of my biggest females. I don't know about any "processing". The place where I buy the fish get's them whole (gutted only) and sometimes fillet them right in front of me. The tilapia is wild caught. The only other fish I've been feeding them in the past few months is also wild caught (coho salmon)

Now, about a week ago, I bought a package of "gourmet rodents". 3 fuzzies in a pack. I halved them and most of the adults had at least a half of one. That's the only foods they've had in quite some time.

[mustang]

those gourme rodents are what i feed checker (well i buy pinkys d@m pricey they be)

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, well I was getting rodents from a childhood friend that owned a stable, pet store, and dog grooming business, for less than half the price of the 'gourmet' rodents.

She sold the property and moved the business. It's now just dog grooming. No rodents.:mad:

Still, most of my concinnus are primarily fish eaters. Only the anery's prefer rodents and even then, they like them unscented but they still eat trout and salmon. I like to give all my adults a fuzzy or two every month, even if I have to scent it. I guess my point is, I don't have a high need for rodents but I also don't like paying $2 each for a dang pinky or fuzzy.

[mustang]

aww that sucks you never find rodents where you want to.

[snakeman]

Store bought fish= dead snakes.Been happening on these boards left and right.Get them on rodents from a good supplier.

[snakeman]

rodentpro.buy 6 months worth at a time.you'll save money.

[ConcinusMan]

Store bought fish= dead snakes.Been happening on these boards left and right.Get them on rodents from a good supplier.

What?!! :eek:

Well then I guess I'm completely screwed. There are no "good suppliers" being how they primarily eat fish, mostly turn up their noses at silversides, and I'd have to travel very far for rodents or pay way more than I can afford.

There's been all this talk of tilapia, trout, salmon, etc. If not from a store, then where do I get the fish? pull it out of my... hat?

I'm not sure I buy the statement "Store bought fish= dead snakes".

For cryin out loud, I kept a pair that lived for 20 years on store bought fish (it wasn't even always "safe" fish), goldfish, wild caught fresh amphibians, I mean everything you all say is "bad" food.

[Spankenstyne]

I wonder if it could be a Tilapia issue? Maybe they aren't the safe species we think, or maybe there's a problem with some stocks of Tilapia? Didn't someone else mention having some problems with Tilapia before?
I also wonder even more about the source of the fish that people are having problems with, is it pre-packaged imported from Asia, South America, or domestic? I also wonder about the "silversides" being touted as it's a common name for many species, many of which are actually smelt which we know some species of are on the thiaminase lists.
"Store-bought" is a wide swath. We should be sharing as much detailed info as we can on these issues as it might be easier to narrow down to a particular species or supplier even.

[ConcinusMan]

It's not a thiaminase issue. I can guarantee that. The coho is locally wild caught, gutted and sent to the market and only sold if it's been dead less than 3 days for cryin' out loud! I don't know what else you expect. The only fish I recently started feeding (which is also wild-caught, or so they say) is the Tilapia. I still have plenty of the wild local coho,(kept frozen after I bought it) maybe I'll just stick with that as a precaution. Not much tilapia left anyway.

[Spankenstyne]

Yeah just throwing stuff out there, more thinking in general, there might be some problems with some fish, not so much thiaminase issues but perhaps some bad batches from elsewhere sort of thing. Possibly relating to certain species, potential toxins etc...

With more specific info like you've given we might be able to find something common with the possible causes of the problems.

I feed mine plenty of store bought trout & salmon and *knock wood* haven't had any issues with multiple litters being raised on it as well & plan on continuing to do so. It might also be a different sources thing, the fish I buy up here has all been wild caught or farmed & fresh before I cut & freeze it.
Certainly all store bought fish can't be the problem, but how many have had these issues & what specifically were they feeding? What species and/or brand names if applicable, and just any details at all that can possibly help narrow it down?

What you saw could also very well have not had anything to do with diet

[ConcinusMan]

rodentpro.buy 6 months worth at a time.you'll save money.

Only if I spend more than I have:rolleyes:

6 months worth of mice for all my snakes wouldn't even come close to a very minimal order from Rodent Pro

[snakeman]

They tell you not to let your kids eat too much fish because of mercury levels and stuff like that.I would'nt risk it.Rodentpro doesnt have a minimum order.You can order as little as 2 bags.You pay 30 shipping but it is still cheaper than going to a pet store.

[ConcinusMan]

They tell you not to let your kids eat too much fish because of mercury levels and stuff like that.I wouldn't risk it. Rodent pro doesn't have a minimum order. You can order as little as 2 bags. You pay 30 shipping...


Wrong. Shipping to my zip is $52 on a $19 order of 100 mice. (1 bag) It ends up being only slightly cheaper than I'm paying a the pet store. sure, in the long run, if I want to keep half a year's worth or more of mice in the freezer that long I could save a little.:cool: Only 2 bags you say? Even if I wanted to feed my snakes exclusively on mice, which I don't, I'd have to freeze a year's worth if I ordered 2 bags. :rolleyes:

I'm just sayin' at this point, the snakes (and numbers of them) I have right now, it's just not desirable to order from them. Perhaps if I had more snakes, and a higher demand for rodents in the future, I would definitely place an order.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh hey, I figured out how to solve that problem...

Get more garter snakes!

[mb90078]

Any reptile shows near you? I'm in the same conundrum with frozen pinkies, that if I buy the small packs from the petstores, I'll be paying upwards of a dollar each, and if I buy online, I won't be able to buy in enough bulk to offset shipping, plus it will still be too many. But what I'm considering doing is going to a reptile show and buying from a rodent vendor there. I'm thinking the prices and quantities should fall somewhere inbetween.

[mustang]

rodentpro.buy 6 months worth at a time.you'll save money.mom says no buying mice online.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think you a hundred anyway do you?

[Mommy2many]

Wrong. Shipping to my zip is $52 on a $19 order of 100 mice. (1 bag) It ends up being only slightly cheaper than I'm paying a the pet store. sure, in the long run, if I want to keep half a year's worth or more of mice in the freezer that long I could save a little.:cool: Only 2 bags you say? Even if I wanted to feed my snakes exclusively on mice, which I don't, I'd have to freeze a year's worth if I ordered 2 bags. :rolleyes:




I ordered 2 bags of mice from Stephi and paid about the price you have mentioned here for shipping and the mice themselves. I had, at the time, 12 snakes, 9 young and 3 adults. I can tell you that those mice lasted maybe 2 months. That was 200 mice. They were the small pinkies, so maybe you would be ordering a larger size. Still, all in all, I believe you would be going thru them faster than you think:D

[ConcinusMan]

Perhaps if I fed them mostly or nothing but mice but I only have two that really care for mice. The rest I have to get them going with fish and slip in a scented fuzzy a couple of times of month.

[Mommy2many]

Yeah, that would make a difference. All of mine will eat pinkies (except my Dekayi)

[kibakiba]

How's the girl doing now, Richard? You have to keep us updated, you pest!

[ConcinusMan]

Well I haven't seen her that bad again. She seems fine and ate well yesterday but she has a bit of a tremble to her head when she moves. At this point as long as she keeps eating and seems alert, I'll just watch and see what happens.

No sign of this in any other snakes.

[kibakiba]

That's good, hopefully they'll all be fine :)

[Selkielass]

I hope everything turns ot well for her and the rest.
Sorry mice are so expensive in your area- hearing what you have to go through makes me feel especially blessed that I have at least three reptile vendors/ pet stores in my area that sell pinkies for a dollar or less.

I'm still considering making a trip down to the Taylor MI reptile show to pick up a bag of 100 for $40. As for you, shipping makes ordering them through the mail cost prohibitive.

Have you considered taking up fishing to feed your snakes? It's a viable option here in Michigan where you can hardly toss a stick without hitting a river, pond or lake, but I know its a lot harder in many areas.

[ConcinusMan]

The problem is, there are no pet stores here anymore that aren't national chains. They don't raise mice. And now, the only privately owned single-store pet store I had, that did raise mice, is no longer a pet store and no longer raising mice.

If I want to travel about 45 minutes north of my house I can still get them for a dollar or less but they rarely have enough on hand so that I could just make the trip once a month.

I don't have time or resources to take care of my own yard like I used to. I don't really have time to even watch a movie but once or twice a month and you want me to go fishing? The license, gas, tackle, time, etc. alone is worth more than the fish I could possibly catch. Not going to happen.

So, for now it's $5 and something for 3 fuzzies, or $2 a pinky at petco. That's all I can do. For about $7 I can buy enough WC local or farmed salmon or even farmed trout at the local grocery store, to feed my snakes for a month.

I really don't think it's the fish. This snake has something wrong with it but I have no reason to suspect the fish.

[Selkielass]

Yeah, like a said, a lot harder in many areas, and not for everybody, but I thought I'd toss it out there- I certainly never meant to imply it was somehow something you should be doing- just that for some it might be a (possibly enjoyable) option. My apologies.

[ConcinusMan]

No need to apologize. Like you said, just offering ideas. I've pretty much exhausted the ideas myself and am already doing what is feasable and affordable and feeding them what I believe to be a healthy and varied diet.

The all-rodent diet is out. It's too expensive and even if it wasn't, I wouldn't want to do that. Supermarket fish is going have to remain a staple. Like I said, I have no reason to believe it's causing any problems. I buy it very fresh and freeze it immediately, thawing only as needed.

For now I pay the high prices for the rodents, for the sake of nutrition and varied diet, when money isn't so tight. I'm usually able to feed them rodents at least twice a month in addition to their fish and night crawlers. On the rare occasion when I have time to go out herping, and I happen to catch a frog or two, or a salamander, I freeze that and feed them those too.

I constantly keep my eyes open both outside and in the markets, for something else I can feed them and take opportunity when I can.

[ConcinusMan]

Well guys I quit feeding the coho salmon to my snakes. Apparently it's not safe for an adult male human to eat more than 12oz in a month. PCB's and mercury. The tilapia is still safe and I'll continue to feed them that occasionally.

As to the snake with the convulsions I have been feeding her mostly fuzzies and a few f/t silversides and her symptoms have completely subsided. She seems fine.:D