Ribbons and garters,, ^^

[Ringosmama]

how exactly can you tell the differance from a garter and a ribbon?? i mean to me they look alot alike, my baby has little stripes but i can never tell im oretty sure hes a garter but.. i could be wrong

[Stefan-A]

Ribbons have a little bright white bar in front of the eyes, no labial markings and the lateral stripe is in the third and fourth scale rows, instead of the second and third like on most other garters.

[ConcinusMan]

They just have different look that is very recognizable to me, especially the head and face. They are generally longer and much thinner than garters too. Stripes are always very well defined and bold on a ribbon.

Take a look at how long and thin the body is on a ribbon snake:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:oZZEaLXUT64ehM:http://www.agfc.com/%21userfiles/int_images/snakes/westernribbon_big.jpg&t=1

And now, a garter: (note how the head and face look too)

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/garter-snake-431x300.jpg

And now a ribbon snake head and face:

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/media/blogs/calarti/IMGP0569.jpg

It's kinda hard to explain but for some reason, I always recognize a ribbon snake and I don't mistake them for garters.

[Stefan-A]

I don't mistake them for garters.
They are garters.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Not buying that.

[infernalis]

Thamnophis is Thamnophis, no contest.

The term "ribbon snake" was created as a description of the long slender build.

"Garter snake" was derived from the stripes resembling the garters that held up socks.

However you want to look at it.. Thamnophis is the classification for both snakes.


Ribbon snakes are slender and long.
http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/PG1/images/greeny.jpg

http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=32&pictureid=677

Non ribbon snakes are thicker and stockier.

http://www.thamnophis.us/felzer/sky.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.us/radix/dix.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Not buying that.
Just stating a fact. Not asking you to buy anything.

[ConcinusMan]

Thamnophis is Thamnophis, no contest.

The term "ribbon snake" was created as a description of the long slender build.

"Garter snake" was derived from the stripes resembling the garters that held up socks.

However you want to look at it.. Thamnophis is the classification for both snakes.


Ribbon snakes are slender and long.
http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/PG1/images/greeny.jpg

http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=32&pictureid=677

Non ribbon snakes are thicker and stockier.

http://www.thamnophis.us/felzer/sky.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.us/radix/dix.jpg

Agreed. They are all Thamnophis. But I wouldn't call all "homo" human beings. And clearly ribbon snakes are different or they would just call them garter snakes:rolleyes:

[mustang]

wow similarities and differences pop up now between the garters and ribbons that i havent noticed before

[Stefan-A]

Agreed. They are all Thamnophis. But I wouldn't call all "homo" human beings.
And why not?

[infernalis]

I wouldn't call all "homo" human beings.


...

The word homo is Latin, in the original sense of "human being", or "man" (in the gender-neutral sense). The word "human" itself is from Latin humanus, an adjective cognate to homo....

[Stefan-A]

He would have had a pretty solid case, if he had said "Homo". That would have been the genus we happen to belong to and it does have (used to have) non-human (Homo sapiens) members. But somehow I don't think he was talking about taxonomy.

[infernalis]

I'm sorry.. I guess I should have continued my education past learning to eat and change my socks.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm sorry.. I guess I should have continued my education past learning to eat and change my socks.

Good one! LMAO



He would have had a pretty solid case, if he had said "Homo". That would have been the genus we happen to belong to and it does have (used to have) non-human (Homo sapiens) members. But somehow I don't think he was talking about taxonomy.

You dang right I was talking about taxonomy, I did say "homo" and you just pushed my point home even if I screwed that up myself.

My point is, not all members of the genus "Homo" are homo sapiens. And I only consider our species to be 'human beings' (set aside the Latin meaning of homo for now) OK, maybe I should have said I don't consider other members of our genus to be"people" , I also do not consider all members of the genus "Thamnophis" to be garter snakes. Some are ribbon snakes you homo!:mad:

;);):p

[Stefan-A]

Unfortunately, you would only have a case if you said that not all Thamnophis are common garter snakes or plains garter snakes. :p

Common names ftl.

[ConcinusMan]

I had a feeling you would say that. Dammit. You got me.;)

[Ringosmama]

im still confused cause my little bugger is so small!! haha

[kibakiba]

He doesn't look anything like a ribbon, he's just a baby.

[Ringosmama]

oh ok good :) hey do they change their looks at all threw out thier lives?? like at all?

[kibakiba]

No, besides getting bigger or more colourful or less colourful. My snakes have stayed the same, Snakey's red stripe is more vibrant now.

[Ringosmama]

ohhh so mine wont change much?

[kibakiba]

Probably not, more experienced members could tell you more probably, but in my own experience, they don't. Mama's also gone from black to very dark brown with black spots. :)

[Ringosmama]

ohhh cool!!! i hope he grows and everything goes right!

[kibakiba]

As long as you feed him, give him clean water every day and give him lots of love I'm sure he'll be just fine :)

[Ringosmama]

ok :) ok so about parasites, are they common??

[kibakiba]

Honestly, I wouldn't know. Luckily I haven't had any problems with them. I read that they're somewhat common in wc garters, but an experienced member could answer your question, I'm sure!

[Ringosmama]

yeah i read that and i was kinda like uh..

[Ringosmama]

and whats the best way to START a snake on pinkies? i still havent tryed feeding him, i want to get him on pickies..

[infernalis]

Several methods work well.

Try rubbing fish all over the pinkie first, then offer it by holding in tongs in the snakes face.

another method is to put a pinkie or two in the water dish with a couple swimming fish.

I'm sure there are others... these two ways work great for me.

Many times the snake will gobble up the pinkies as well as the fish.

[Ringosmama]

haha ok thanks!! :)

[kibakiba]

And also rubbing worms on them. It's overall just way easier and less costly to go for worms.

[Ringosmama]

yeah haha :)

[Selkielass]

ok :) ok so about parasites, are they common??

I got lucky with Abby- she had no mites (Or shed them and they were discarded along with the damp moss I had her in for the first couple days after I found her.) and tested clan for worms when I had a fecal float done by a local vet.

If you are keeping Ringo on white paper towel substrate, you will see black pepper like spots on the paper towel or in his water dish if he has mites- *then* you can look into treatment options.

He's just a bayby though- you *might* have found him before he had a chance to pick anything up. (We can hope, eh?)

Abby was about 13 inches long when I found her, and I got her to take a pinky mouse about a month after I found her- It had been thoroughly and repeatedly scented with worm slime, and I teased her with it by manipulating it on the substrate with a pair of black plastic feeding tongs that I'm pretty sure she sees as another snake. (She acts like she is stealing the other snakes food, and looks very satisfied with her cleverness.)

I've managed to get Abby to look forward to handling by feeding her only after a handling session. When we get her out, she goes into alert mode, and if hungry cruises around alertly but calmly, exploring our hands and arms. When returned to her cage, she immediately goes to the foilage 'where the food is' and hides in waiting until the food makes its appearance. (Sometimes just a tiny worm snack, sometimes more, as appropriate.)

When 'that other snake' (The feeding tongs) makes its appearance, she immediately comes out rearing like a cobra, sneaks up on her 'victim' and 'viciously' steals his lunch, looking very pleased with herself by the whole process. Its good fun for everyone, and she seems to enjoy handling more now that the associates it with hunting and food when she returns home.

[ConcinusMan]

Most common thing a WC northwestern can have is tapeworms and hookworms.(internal worms) I've never seen mites on WC reptile in the Northwest but in drier warmer parts of CA I have seen mites and ticks on lizards but not snakes. Tapeworms in WC adults are the only thing I've seen them have, that causes any problems, and even those have been few.

Mites are far more common a problem in captivity and if your collection gets mites, it usually comes from a new captive snake.

You don't have to worry about mites from that snake and the younger it is, the better the chance that it is parasite free. A northwestern that small, if it has taken a meal in the wild, it was probably worms or slugs so not really a problem. Best to leave the snake untreated in this case. He's too small and I wouldn't even treat an adult unless it was a bad infestation.


Sometimes the best method for getting them to eat pinkies is to just offer them some.:rolleyes: My baby northwesterns ate chopped pinkies the first time I offered.

And to answer another question you had, northwesterns are usually born "grayed out" in color. What I mean is, the color of the stripes isn't really there right away. Especially red, orange, yellow develop over time as they grow. Chance are, your snake will change some as it grows. His stripe is very likely to change color but it could stay the same.