Found a garter in need of help?

[svon89]

Two days ago my kids and I saw a garter in the road in front of our house. Not unusual, they always seem to sun themselves out there. I moved this one into the grass next to the road and left it. Two days later it was in the same spot so I decided to bring it back to the house and see if it needed water.

The snake was strong, right through it's tail so I do not believe it had been run over. The snake is not responding the way others have. When you put it down it will just stay in one spot.

Any suggestions? What could I look for?
Thanks
Not looking to make it a pet, just want to see if I could help it along.

[Mommy2many]

Welcome. Can you post a picture? Have you tried feeding it yet? You said no obvious injuries?

[Snakers]

Did you see it drink? put its head right in the water bowl sounds dehydrated, Welcome!

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like it may be sick. Most unusual when an animal doesn't try to get away when first approached.
Is it doing a lot of tongue flicking?

[mustang]

hope it gets better ,everyone else has said what i would have

[svon89]

I tried putting it in a flat plate of water( I tilted it so it was dry and water was right next to it), it didn't want any part of that. Not a lot of tongue flicking. If I were to feed it, do I just put a small part of worm in front of it?

I can get a picture of it tomorrow.
Thanks

[ConcinusMan]

Sometimes if a snake has been run over or received some sort of internal injuries, they will appear quite calm and even a little limp, then take days to die. But, we dont' really know at this point if your garter is OK or not.

But really, a healthy wild garter from outside should flee immediately or put up some fight when you pick it up.

[guidofatherof5]

I wish you the best with this snake.
Give access to water, a hide and food.
The next few days should reveal if there's a problem.
Active tongue flicking is a sign of a healthy snake.
Some photos would be great and please keep us informed about your special snake.

P.S. Thanks for talking the time to show an interest in its welfare.
It's greatly appreciated.

[svon89]

Here are a couple of pictures. Still not very much tongue flicking.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh hey, you mentioned the tail and you said it looked like it possibly got run over. Just about all my females look like that right now. Why? They all recently gave birth and that's what that snake looks like to me. A female that recently gave birth. Lot's of food and a few weeks... they fill back out in no time.

[Snakers]

Idk it looks to me she is dieing of old age....

[svon89]

Maybe old age. No interest in a cricket. It basically danced over her head and she didn't do anything. Will still curl itself back up if moved, but not interested in going anywhere. I found another today and in comparison there is no tongue flicking. The one I found today was smaller, active, and had the tongue out a lot.
Keep any ideas coming.

[kibakiba]

They don't eat crickets, or any other type of bugs for that matter. They usually eat worms, slugs amphibians or fish.

[guidofatherof5]

Maybe old age. No interest in a cricket. It basically danced over her head and she didn't do anything. Will still curl itself back up if moved, but not interested in going anywhere. I found another today and in comparison there is no tongue flicking. The one I found today was smaller, active, and had the tongue out a lot.
Keep any ideas coming.

Check out the care sheet: Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[ConcinusMan]

Snake does look old and worn out. If I tried to feed you a cricket I imagine you wouldn't be interested either since neither snakes nor humans eat bugs. (well, most of us don't):p

Whatever you do, never leave live crickets in with snakes or any other herp for very long or the cricket will start making a meal of the snake.

[svon89]

Thanks for the tip. The snake is actually outside in an area that it is protected and has access to water. Today I will try earthworms and see what happens.

Another question: We are supposed to get some heavy rains from hurricane Earl, I intend to bring the snake in to prevent it from getting too much water. I intend to put it in a large cardboard box, shredded newpaper at the bottom, a water source, and a hollow log for a hide. I am going to put a piece of plexiglass over the top. I plan to put small holes all around the top of the box for air. However I do not have a heat rock or heat lamp. The ambient temperature is around 70F-80F. Would this be alright for one day and night?

Thanks

[guidofatherof5]

For the short time you will have it inside I wouldn't worry about the heat. The air hole will also not be necessary since it's in a cardboard box.
Good job thinking ahead on the storm.
Keep safe.;)

[ConcinusMan]

I'm thinking a cardboard box is not going to be escape proof no matter what you do to it. make sure there is no tape or adhesives, regardless of what you use. A garter can squeeze through very easily. A cardboard box with plexiglass on top isn't going to cut it.

You're better off using a dollar store plastic container with holes punched in it for air.

[svon89]

Good news, as of tonight, the snake has moved on from where I had it. I had it in my wife's strawberry patch with 1" bird netting over it so I know nothing got to it. I was planning on bringing it in if we got Earl, but seems like it felt better today. Maybe the worms helped, although I never saw it eat any.

Thank you for the help.

[guidofatherof5]

Good news, as of tonight, the snake has moved on from where I had it. I had it in my wife's strawberry patch with 1" bird netting over it so I know nothing got to it. I was planning on bringing it in if we got Earl, but seems like it felt better today. Maybe the worms helped, although I never saw it eat any.

Thank you for the help.

Keep us posted.

[The Snake Whisperer]

This summer I've been dealing with 70 plus rescued garters of various ages and there are two foods that they have been willing to eat well. Earthworms is the #1 food they as well as my own pet garters, eat eagerly But recently, extremely dry weather conditions has made it tough to find areas in the woods that are damp enough for a productive earthworm dig so I turned to experimenting with a variety of other foods. The one food next to earthworms that the majority of the garters willingly eat, either 9 Lives meaty bites beef slices cat food or Friskies beef slices in gravy cat food-the two brands of this food are similar enough the snakes will eat either brand (one snake really astounded me with its show of intelligence, by reaching up when I was dropping a spoonful of the beef slices into a big paper plate for the snakes, and neatly taking a slice from the spoon. I offered a few more slices, one at a time, and this snake each time rose up and neatly took the slice from the spoon and repeated the behavior until it was satisfied. I tried to take a photo with the other hand, don't know if I managed to get a good pic or not coz I haven't had time to check the pics. If I didn't get a good pic, I'm sure going to try again because I doubt anyone, including myself until the day before yesterday, has ever seen a garter snake who taught itself to eat from a spoon!)
In addition five of these rescue garters decided I didn't have enough snakes to take care of and added over 150 little shoestrings to the population. A number of the baby garters willingly ate the beef cat food too although it has to be crumbled into really tiny pieces because a baby garter is easily intimidated by anything much wider than its own head.
I did have to cut the slices to make them thinner in width for the smaller snakes (yearlings and a few of the 2 year olds) to get them to eat and not be intimidated by the width of the food. Its strange that a garter will eagerly swallow a toad wider than itself but they are afraid to even try eating an earthworm that appears to be too large for them to swallow & from what I've seen so far, this seems to be true of everything I've seen a garter eat except for toads.
One note, try to wash the gravy off of the pieces of the food because the snakes eat the food more eagerly when they don't have to deal with the mess the gravy makes. This issue of gravy mess is even more important for babies, when there's more than just a tiny bit of gravy with the meat, they get sticky and have trouble moving around and have to be washed off. If they weren't washed off, they probably could become stuck to something because that gravy tends to have a gluelike effect when it dries.

Not only do most of the garters like it, but it was the one food that my handfed orphan baby robin was willing to accept in lieu of earthworms too, after the bird finally decided to eat on its own
Another food that I had some success with last year with a litter of baby garters was 9 Lives super supper bits rolled into shapes similar to earthworm shapes and once the babies figured out it was soft, they would willingly take bites out of larger chunks of it.

There WAS one other food the rescue garters liked when I tried it but after trying it, I decided it wasn't good for their health and that was canned smoked herring and because it was smoked and also quite salty, I discontinued it.

Foods I tried that the snakes rejected included canned tuna, tiny live fish in their swimming pool (I never have gotten a garter of mine to eat any kind of live fish, they will ignore the fish and let it live out its lifespan swimming among the snakes!), pinky parts, and chicken. Regarding canned fish, perhaps strong scent was why the garters would eat the herring.

I will post a separate thread detailing other things I discovered while working with these garters.
But you might try that beef slices cat food.

[guidofatherof5]

Great job rescueing the garter snakes.

Garter snakes will eat many thing that aren't good for them. They don't know when something is dangerous they just want a full belly.
Processed foods are not recommended (cat food, canned fish for people) They are not developed for reptiles. There is even controversy whether it's good for pets and humans. Things like sodium and preservatives are a major concern.
With the availability of other safe foods(frozen or fresh salmon/tilapia/trout) I think it would be much better to convert these snakes over.
I by know means am telling you how to take care or your snakes but the issue of cat food and canned foods in general have been discussed on this forum before and most members are in agreement that these food items can do more harm than good in the long run.
If I may use an analogy.
Most of us know someone who has smoked all their lives and lived a long life. Smoking doesn't seem to have had too big an impact on them.
That is a very small percentage of smokers. Most of us also know someone who has suffered the debilitating effects of smoking. I myself have lost my father and mother(secondhand Smoke) to smoking, along with a number of dear friends.
Converting these snakes over to a more safe food source is in their best interests.

[ConcinusMan]

Canned fish almost always contains a significant amount of salt. It might as well be poison. Garter snake's bodies do not need salt at all and they do not have a way to expel excess salt like mammals do. Marine iguanas are about the only reptile that can handle salt. Other than the salt or other additives, there's nothing wrong with canned fish even though it's cooked but cat food is a horrible thing to give your snakes.

It may seem expensive when you see the price per pound for safe fish fillets(trout, salmon) at the supermarket but I can feed 6 huge adult concinnus and about 50 babies for around $7 a month so it's not that bad.

[Mommy2many]

I don't think fresh fish is all that costly compared to pinkies. If you alternate between worms, fish, and pinkies, I think it is most cost effective. I certainly don't feed mine as many pinkies as they would like, I suppose:rolleyes:

[Mommy2many]

Most of us also know someone who has suffered the debilitating effects of smoking. I myself have lost my father and mother(secondhand Smoke) to smoking, along with a number of dear friends.



I as well. I lost my mother, she was 45, just after I turned 14 to smoking. I lost my dad at age 67, just after I turned 30. Back then, they did not realize the danger they put themselves in as well as those around them. My Mom was alive for 2 months after she was diagnosed with cancer. One of the first things she made my sisters and I promise is that we would never start smoking. That is a promise I have always kept.

[ConcinusMan]

This summer I've been dealing with 70 plus rescued garters of various ages

Wow. That's a lot of garter snakes. Makes me very curious though. How is it that so many snakes needed rescuing?

What I mean is, rescued from what?

I believe that many people with good intentions try to "rescue" animals that don't need rescued and are better off left where they were found.

svon89 started this thread about a snake possibly in need of rescue. There's no obvious signs of injury and it's apparent that the area where it was found has everything needed to support garter snakes so I don't believe there is anything to rescue it from. Just my opinion.

I've seen more snakes that needed rescuing from the people who were keeping them than one's found outside in need of immediate medical attention or relocation.

[guidofatherof5]

I as well. I lost my mother, she was 45, just after I turned 14 to smoking. I lost my dad at age 67, just after I turned 30. Back then, they did not realize the danger they put themselves in as well as those around them. My Mom was alive for 2 months after she was diagnosed with cancer. One of the first things she made my sisters and I promise is that we would never start smoking. That is a promise I have always kept.



Good for you and your family, Le Ann.;)

[The Snake Whisperer]

The attached photos will clearly explain why I ended up with so many rescued garter snakes this summer.

One day late last spring, the neighborhood kids came to me carrying a bucket containing 5 injured garter snakes, because I'm the person in the neighborhood known for being able to identify tracks, plants, gut piles, etc and for being the one person in the neighborhood who is likely to know what to do for an orphaned or injured creature somebody finds. So naturally, the kids brought these five snakes to me. Of course I asked them where they found the snakes. They led me to an area of the field behind my house where two years earlier, someone had dumped huge piles of carpeting and carpet padding. Over time the carpet remained intact but the padding was rotting and had become separated from its backing of mesh woven into tiny squares-this mesh may be nylon, it reminds me of fishing line although it's rougher in texture and a bit thicker. The squares that the mesh forms are just about the right size for a 2 year old garter snake to squeeze through-or at least get part of the way through it. There I found many trapped snakes, some alive, some dead.

The carpet padding has an insulating quality about it that makes it warm during the night and cool during the day. It also is full of folds, nooks, and crannies. Thus it attracts garter snakes by the dozens.
Inevitably the snakes try to go through one or more of the mesh squares and get trapped. When they struggle to try to free themselves, the mesh of the square acts like a sharp knife, slicing into their necks and bodies as they struggle to free themselves from it. Some of them hang themselves and strangle to death. Some of them get so entangled in the mesh that they are woven through several squares, each square's threads slicing into them like knives as they try to get free, until they die from their multiple injuries. Others become trapped where they are subjected to the full effect of direct summer sun all day and that kills them.

The day the kids first alerted me to the problem of the snakes in the padding, I came home and got an old pillowcase and a pair of good scissors, went back, and carefully cut the padding in big circles around trapped snakes so I could just put the trapped snakes, still trapped, into the pillowcase. I took them home where I could then use hemostats and a surgical scissors to carefully pull the embedded threads of the mesh away from their bodies enough to cut the pieces of mesh and free the snakes. Every single snake lay still during the process which amazed me, wild snakes never before having been handled by a human, laying still and cooperating while their first experience with being handled was to have a hemostat prodding in their wounds and a scissors cutting right next to their skin!

After cutting the snakes free, I would wash them in lukewarm water and then apply Panalog ointment to their wounds and put them in a plastic holding container so the Panalog could soak into their wounds a few minutes. Then I put them into a big plastic tub that I'd set up for them. Almost every single snake as soon as I put it in the big tub, ran to the container of water I'd set up in the tub for them to drink and swim in, and drank and drank. Some of them soaked themselves for hours in their swimming pool after being put into the big tub.

After this first episode, I started as much as I possibly could, to make regular daily checks of the padding for trapped snakes and rescuing whatever snakes I found in it that were still alive.

Had the padding been a reasonable amount, I could have put it in a big trashbag and hauled it out of the field, but there were no fewer than four huge piles of it. The photo of my German Shepherd dog near one of the piles will give you an idea of the size of these piles. There were also smaller pieces and piles scattered here and there. Since I couldn't remove the padding from the area, I put as much of it as high up on top of tall weeds or across the low branches of the few young trees growing in that area, to try to make the padding less attractive to the snakes. This helped although I suspect that what really made the numbers of trapped snakes dwindle until near summer's end it's become rare for me to find any at all dead or alive, is that most of the snakes in that area either had been trapped and died or else were in tubs at my house recovering.

Five of the trapped snakes that lived were gravid females and altogether they presented me with 150 babies. I fed the babies for a few weeks and then released all but a few of them either near the stream in the woods behind the field they were trapped in, hoping that the location is far enough from the padding in the field that they won't return to it (the last half of the summer has been extremely dry and the stream itself is the lowest I ever saw it, but it's also the only water source for the wildlife in the area so I'm hoping that fact will also encourage the snakes to stay in the woods near the stream) or on a nearby friend's farm where they could be as safe as a garter snake can be in the wild. I also released adults that were totally healed, eating good, and in good overall physical condition and behaving normally.

The rest of the adults (and yearlings and 2-year olds) that I couldn't release in time for them to be able to put on weight and condition for brumation, I'll have to keep through the winter and release them in the spring. There are a couple that can't ever be released because they probably couldn't survive at all in the wild, due to the effects of their injuries. The worst injured snake to survive has the rear 2/3 of her body scarred up, twisted, paralyzed, so damaged it's even permanently a duller color than the front third. However, she manages to compensate for it well enough to get around in her cage and swim and eat, etc although she does strike some very strange poses that no normal uninjured garter would ever get its body into!

[The Snake Whisperer]

Here are three closeup photos of the body of the girl whose body is so badly scarred and deformed. She does have feeling in her tail but she sort of drags everything of her body from the first deformed scarred spot on back and kind of throws that whole part of her body around in her process of navigating her cage, getting in and out of her pool, etc.
The photo where she is being held up was taken to show her paralysis more clearly. When a normal snake is lifted this way, it will either automatically bring the back part of its body up and wrap around your hand or lift the back part of the body with the front in an attempt to wriggle free from your grasp. As you can see, her back section just hangs. The section of her body that is discolored and twisted and scarred is apparently permanently discolored and scarred since it hasn't changed appearance when she sheds. It always remains much duller in color, resembling the way a normal snake's skin looks when its getting close to shedding. The front part of her body however, is totally normal.

[guidofatherof5]

How long have you had the snake?
I have one with a displaced spine that is doing well.
As long as it still has some control of its bowels and can shed(maybe with some help) it could live a long time.
Best of luck, keep us posted.

[gregmonsta]

You did really well saving them and doing the best you can. Like Steve said, if she is managing to process food and shed (even with your assistance) there is no reason why she couldn't have a good captive life with you.

[ConcinusMan]

I as well. I lost my mother, she was 45, just after I turned 14 to smoking. I lost my dad at age 67, just after I turned 30. Back then, they did not realize the danger they put themselves in as well as those around them. My Mom was alive for 2 months after she was diagnosed with cancer. One of the first things she made my sisters and I promise is that we would never start smoking. That is a promise I have always kept.

Sorry to hear that Le Ann. It's easy to blame the smoking and yes, that is definitely a risk factor, and it's a good choice to not smoke, but you just can't always figure these things. My father is one of 5 siblings. All but one have smoked most of their lives. Only one never smoked or drank. The second to the youngest of them. He died first in his 40's. Cancer that started in his throat and progressed to his liver.:cool:

The rest, including my father are still alive and still smoking.(The oldest is in his 80's)

Didn't mean to change the subject but I had to say something.

[The Snake Whisperer]

I agree that canned salmon & processed foods aren't exactly the healthiest choices for feeding the snakes. From the end of July on until mid to late November, there was such a serious drought locally that it was impossible to dig earthworms anywhere in the woods behind my house. The creek was the lowest I ever saw it before, it was so low there were only a few small nasty smelly puddles of water full of dead rotting leaves. I did learn though, when looking for damp spots elsewhere in the creek, that crayfish survive droughts by burying themselves deep in the creek bottom mud.

This drought was what forced me to seek other foods for the garters. Buying nightcrawlers wasn't an option for the majority of the garters, most of them weren't large enough to handle a full sized nightcrawler. Under normal conditions, I usually am able to easily dig plenty of smaller sized earthworms in the woods for the snakes.

The biggest problem with canned salmon I've had is that a few baby snakes stuffed themselves so much with pieces of food that they died, upon opening them up to see what I could find as to cause of death, they had eaten so much the food was packed all the way up to their mouths. Since then I've been feeding the babies the ground up type of canned cat food versus any kind of chunky food, because the ground up food has no large pieces in it.

I have tried washing the canned salmon & soaking it in water & rinsing it a few times in an effort to wash salt out of it, the problem with this is the difficulty of keeping the salmon intact in pieces large enough for the bigger snakes to be interested in eating them.

What kinds of fish can you buy frozen that garters will accept? I'm assuming I would thaw the fish and cut it into long thin strips to simulate the size of earthworms appropriate to the size of the snake I'm feeding. How long is thawed frozen fish safe for the snakes to eat? Should I put reptile calcium powder or any other vitamin powder on f/t fish before feeding it to the snakes?

What other meats, if any, can I buy frozen that garters will accept?

I started a worm bed in a deep opaque container too, & hopefully I can get the worms to produce well enough in time to be able to supply myself with garter food.

When spring comes, I plan to release a number of these snakes back to the wild. I couldn't release nearly as many as I wanted to before winter came, due to the severe drought & severe lack of food available in the wild.

[kibakiba]

You could cut the night crawlers, thats what I do and they take them just like the would another whole worm. Tilapia is good for feeding, but don't buy packaged tilapia, get it fresh and freeze it. Honestly, I'd say cut it out with the cat food and canned food, just buy some large night crawlers from the store and cut them up. It's so much more healthy for the snake and they wont stuff themselves if you feed them with hemostats or tweezers.

[guidofatherof5]

Even very large worms can be cut into small chunks.
Fresh Salmon, Trout and Tipalia will work. This also can be cut into small chunks so that the smaller snakes can enjoy.
Moving away from any processed food is a good move for your snakes.;)

[ConcinusMan]

What Steve said^^^ ;)

[The Snake Whisperer]

I've found out that my Easterns will eat canned salmon flavor & canned ocean whitefish/tuna combo flavor canned cat food. I also consistently group feed them when feeding canned cat food & I've found there is a definite pack style organization among snakes that are caged together. There is one snake in each group who consistently is first to eat and in each group I've noted the dominant snake consistently using a dominant stare behavior to tell the other snakes to back off and wait, this dominant stare is similar to that which alpha wolves use. The dominant snake will take a mouthful of food and carry it away to eat it & after that the others move in, each also taking a mouthful & carrying it away from the dish to eat it.

Let me make it clear that while I regularly group feed the garters when feeding cat food, I would never group feed them when feeding earthworms. When I feed earthworms, each snake is fed individually.

I've also noted that in comparison to their behavior when fed cat food, when the snakes are fed earthworms the movement of the worms excites them. I've also found the best way to get garters to accept pinkie mice or in the case of the bigger garters, pinky rats, is to first make sure to introduce pinkies when the snake is really hungry and less picky!! , scent live pinkies by rubbing earthworms on the pinkies. In a couple of cases I've wrapped an earthworm around a pinky & then offered the pinky to the snake to get the snake started eating the pinky. Otherwise, the scent of earthworm combined with the movement of the live pinky should motivate a hungry garter to eat the pinky.

In my experience, it's taken several times of feeding scented live pinkies before the snakes would accept unscented live pinkies. Later on when I didn't have live pinkies available, I found these snakes would accept frozen thawed pinkies, a couple of those big enough to handle fuzzies will eat fuzzies too.

Garters in comparison to other species I have & observe, don't like to eat anything that's much wider than their own heads, with the exception of toads! The garter snakes don't seem to be able to open their mouths as wide as constrictor species such as cornsnakes are capable of doing. Baby garters also get intimidated if an earthworm is too long & I've noted consistently that when in the presence of a baby garter, small earthworms try to stretch themselves out as long as possible to intimidate the baby snake! Cutting the worm into two or more pieces quickly solves that problem.

I've never had any luck getting any garters to eat fish & fish have coexisted with the garters in the garters swimming pools/water dishes up to several months before dying of natural causes! The snakes totally ignore the fish.

Another interesting behavior I've noted is that when a mother garter has given birth, when I go to feed her earthworms she is very careful to go over the worm thoroughly before eating it to make sure it's not a baby snake. I've never had an adult garter make any attempt to eat baby garters.

My observations of garters indicates this species is social and prefers the company of other garters. Even in the wild the garters I observe are rarely alone, there are usually at least two snakes together. A number of times I've seen three or four adult garters lined up alongside small runoff streams of water after a hard rain, reminding me of fishermen lined up together on a bridge.

What have others of you who keep multiple garters together observed in your garters, as to evidence of social behaviors & organized social structure with one individual clearly being dominant over the others?

What have others of you observed as to cleanliness instinct in your garters? I've noted mine consistently keep their den box clean and defecate away from the den box, even babies consistently keep their den clean and accidents are very rare. I've got a few adults who when put into a separate feeding container when fed earthworms, consistently relieve themselves in the feeding container after eating, as if they know if they relieve themselves there they won't have the mess in their cage. In contrast, I've not observed these individuals relieving themselves immediately after being group fed cat food in their regular cage.

The more I open-mindedly observe the garters, the more they teach me that they are intelligent, curious, have definite personalities, are social & have a definite social structure when living together in a group & also have definite cleanliness instincts. My conclusion so far is that snakes are perhaps the least understood & most underestimated creatures on the planet!

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to see you back on the forum.

Hmmm, interesting observations.
Cat food has been an issue brought up many times on the forum.
Seemed the consensus was it isn't a food which should be fed to garter snakes.
Cat food or processed canned meat is full of preservatives, additives and high in sodium and are designed and developed with mammals in mind.
Garter snakes will eat many things that are very bad for them.
I could fool my snakes into eating just about anything by scenting it with worm slime.
I would strongly suggest not feeding any canned, processed foods.;)

[drache]

interesting observations . . .

I'd stay away from the cat food, for the reasons Steve brought up - too many chemicals
I have a garter that once tried to eat a shoe, probably because it got walked over some junk food - just because they will eat it, doesn't mean it's acceptable

I wonder about some of your other observations
you must have special garters, because mine poop all over their cage

more later . . .

[ConcinusMan]

I've found out that my Easterns will eat canned salmon flavor & canned ocean whitefish/tuna combo flavor canned cat food.

Then why not use that to scent something more appropriate for snakes.


Another interesting behavior I've noted is that when a mother garter has given birth, when I go to feed her earthworms she is very careful to go over the worm thoroughly before eating it to make sure it's not a baby snake.

I doubt is has anything to do with the babies. Don't jump to conclusions. Garters will often do this behavior regardless. As to the "why" part, one can only speculate. To say it's because they just had babies is quite a stretch. The fact that the snake was checking out the worm at all tells me the snake already knew it wasn't a baby garter or it wouldn't have been interested in the first place.



I've never had an adult garter make any attempt to eat baby garters.

And you probably never will. However, try scenting your baby snakes with their favorite food and watch what happens. (not recommended) I've never had a garter attempt to eat a rock either because rocks aren't on the menu. However, if it smells like food, they will try. Accidents do occur. This is why we do not usually feed groups together.


Let me make it clear that while I regularly group feed the garters when feeding cat food, I would never group feed them when feeding earthworms. When I feed earthworms, each snake is fed individually.

The issues that can happen when feeding snakes in groups, happen regardless of what is on the menu.

As for the babies dying after feeding them canned salmon, I would be quite surprised if they didn't die after eating all that salt. Salmon is not canned without levels of salt high enough to kill a baby garter in one meal.

Cat food is not garter snake food. I would highly recommend that you stop feeding it to them. Also, watch the ingredients of what you do feed them. Any salt is very bad for them and could be deadly.

[RedSidedSPR]

I've had babies chomp down on eachother. Several times. Simply because he smelled food.. smell is mostly all they go by with food.

[d_virginiana]

Interesting observations. Snakes definitely aren't well understood creatures. Though, ditto to what everyone else is saying about the catfood/canned fish. Not a great food choice.



I've also found the best way to get garters to accept pinkie mice or in the case of the bigger garters, pinky rats, is to first make sure to introduce pinkies when the snake is really hungry and less picky!! , scent live pinkies by rubbing earthworms on the pinkies. In a couple of cases I've wrapped an earthworm around a pinky & then offered the pinky to the snake to get the snake started eating the pinky. Otherwise, the scent of earthworm combined with the movement of the live pinky should motivate a hungry garter to eat the pinky.

Another interesting tactic to get snakes on mice is to use organ meat. I got my new baby from feeder fish to unscented pinky bits in one feeding by cutting out the liver and offering it to her. I've noticed my adult also consistently prefers red organ meat if I chop a pinky and leave it for him. I've never heard of anyone else doing this (it is kind of gross...) but I think it's interesting.


Another interesting behavior I've noted is that when a mother garter has given birth, when I go to feed her earthworms she is very careful to go over the worm thoroughly before eating it to make sure it's not a baby snake. I've never had an adult garter make any attempt to eat baby garters.

My adult male does that as well, and I know he isn't concerned about it being a baby snake :rolleyes: . I think it's just a way of investigating what they're about to put in their mouths. An eastern will probably never actively try to cannibalize, but that doesn't mean it'd be safe to dip a baby in fish juice and put it in a tank with an adult. Also, as concinnusman said, the female garter would've known another snake was around before she got to the point of investigating. My snakes can tell when another garter is brought into the room even if they're in different enclosures.


What have others of you who keep multiple garters together observed in your garters, as to evidence of social behaviors & organized social structure with one individual clearly being dominant over the others?

Sometimes if people are looking for something they can see it even when it's not there. I believe garters are fairly 'social' as far as the term can be applied to snakes. Both in the wild and captivity they seem to feel safer around other garters, but I still don't believe this is on par with any sort of organized social structure. The 'dominant-submissive' behavior you talked about is likely due to the smaller, shyer snakes wanting to avoid getting bitten than out of social deference. I really do love my snakes; they have individual personalities, and there's way more to them than I'd ever thought there would be before actually working with them, but they're still snakes. Their brains don't have the capacity for that level of social organization. Don't get me wrong; I don't think their mindless automatons or anything, but they don't come anywhere near animals like dogs or wolves when it comes to empathy and society. That's why my snakes are much loved pets, but my dog is my best friend.