Is Red Really Red?

[guidofatherof5]

I just noticed something about my girl Nova. Her red coloring is not just scales but also skin coloring. Her son, Rudolph is a great looking red radix but his skin coloring between the red scales is normal?
Now, when it comes to genetics I know next to nothing, so I'm asking for help.
Do you think this observation gives any insight to whether Nova's red scale color and skin color can be passed on. In the case of Rudolph I guess only part of it, right.
Don, Is your red radix, red scales or skin both? Just wondering since they came from the same area.
Nova:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nova12.jpg
Rudolph:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/red_nose11.jpg

[Snakers]

it will be interesting to see an answer!

[kibakiba]

I know nothing about genetics but I'm guessing it could be a possibility. Do one of those square things! Haha I don't know if that would help at all... I think my brain is melting away from not being in school ;)

[BUSHSNAKE]

that red phase radix may not breed true but the "red" is inheritable

[BUSHSNAKE]

i think you know what i mean...no two are alike, right?

[guidofatherof5]

that red phase radix may not breed true but the "red" is inheritable


i think you know what i mean...no two are alike, right?


Yes I do. Thanks.

[SilentWrath*]

More than likely there are separate genes that account for the skin and scale color.
So yes, unless both parents were red skin with red scales I wouldn't expect to see many babies with that double recessive genotype on both genes.

I don't know two much about genetics but I remember some from bio.

[ConcinusMan]

I've noticed that quite often. I've even noticed snakes that had a red appearance on their sides but the red was ONLY on the skin between the scales, and not on the scales themselves.

Pigments are often not just in the scales (take a look at a scaleless snake, it still has color and pattern). That pic you posted recently of a healed snake injury clearly shows skin without scales and yet it is dark grey indicating that there is melanin there in the skin.

Man, Nova is extremely beautiful. I only wish that radixes like her were more common. I'd love to have one. Seems it's easier to find albinos for sale than a very red radix.:rolleyes:

Want to know what I think? I think nova is a truly erythristic (mutated gene) snake. Not just your average red radix. Being erythristic, it's not surprising that red pigment happens on the skin between the scales. Sure, Rudolf has red, but it's not like what I would consider erythristic. The red doesn't take over everything and even bleed into the dorsal stripe like nova's red does and that brings up a good point. Red is not always red. One red snake can have the appearance of red but the pigment cells involved can be xanthosphores, usually associated with yellow but they can be red too.

One must consider that taking away certain pigments can give a snake the appearance of having excessive pigment of a different color. Just because a snake is very red doesn't indicate that it is erythristic but instead can mean another color is missing, leaving red behind. Just like some axanthic or anerythristic snakes appear somewhat blue. (see my avatar) It's not an addition of blue pigment but rather the lack of another, that gives them the blue appearance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that one radix may appear red for completely different reason than another one does. Trying to breed red radixes from the two different types might not result in great success. I would guess that novas color is a recessive mutation just like albino. I would breed her with that in mind and see if you can prove it.

[ssssnakeluvr]

my red female has red on the scales and the skin. she bred with my het albino male and threw 12 nice babies. they show no red yet, hopefully will show up later. will be holding back at least a pair to breed to see if the red will come out. :cool:

here's my girl

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF8051.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

She looks lonely. I happen to have a snake that needs a roommate:rolleyes:
Are you thinking what I'm thinking. Yep, send her to me. OK, it's settled.
I'll even pay the shipping bill:D

[ConcinusMan]

my red female has red on the scales and the skin. she bred with my het albino male and threw 12 nice babies. they show no red yet, hopefully will show up later. will be holding back at least a pair to breed to see if the red will come out. :cool:

here's my girl

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF8051.jpg

And I have two males and a female from that breeding if I understand correctly. Not sure what to expect from that but they do appear to be average every day normal radixes. Debating whether or not to breed an iowa male to that female, or breed brother and sister.

[BUSHSNAKE]

well there is two good reasons to breed the albino to the normal, first its always good to outcross and second youll know what your babies will be and that would be 100% hets

[ConcinusMan]

True. There is also a chance that any one of the three I have from this breeding are hets for albino (actually, nebraska AND iowa). Anyway I did all the correct calculations using the advanced genetics wizard and there's only a 25% chance that any one of these three is het for nothing. So, I suppose breeding them to an iowa albino has a good chance of producing albinos, plus I would know that all the offspring are 100% hets.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i believe the parents of your baby radix were het to normal, so they are 50% poss het albino

[ConcinusMan]

That's not exactly how it comes out. I figured it up correctly and there's a 75% chance that the babies I have are het for nebraska, iowa, or both. Don't really know how the red figures in but it would be nice if it popped up one day on an albino. I believe that one this female is big enough, I'll breed her to an iowa male I have that is also het for nebraska.

[BUSHSNAKE]

well, have fun with it

[mustang]

does anyone have a male with red skin? or is this just coincidence that the only 2 with red skin iv seen are female?

[guidofatherof5]

does anyone have a male with red skin? or is this just coincidence that the only 2 with red skin iv seen are female?

I have a male with red skin and scales but he's not at breeding age yet. It will be another year.

[mustang]

in the future this wil be a song
"i cant believe the snakes im see'n
red scales and skin
i see them with cloudy eyes
(enter crappy ear shattering voice)
ohhhh stteeevee cann maaakkkeee uuupppp ttthhheee rreeessssttt oooff tthhiiisss sssooonnnggg unnnttttillll iiii gggrrraaaddduuuaaatttee frrrrooomm mmmmuusssiiiccc tttthhheeeooorrryyy!"
haha

[guidofatherof5]

in the future this wil be a song
"i cant believe the snakes im see'n
red scales and skin
i see them with cloudy eyes
(enter crappy ear shattering voice)
ohhhh stteeevee cann maaakkkeee uuupppp ttthhheee rreeessssttt oooff tthhiiisss sssooonnnggg unnnttttillll iiii gggrrraaaddduuuaaatttee frrrrooomm mmmmuusssiiiccc tttthhheeeooorrryyy!"
haha

I used to wish I could sing................now, I wish you could:D

Sorry I just had too.:D

[mustang]

I used to wish I could sing................now, I wish you could:D

Sorry I just had too.:D
im in music theory i had to learn to...apparently im ranged the octavebelow middle c (the c before middle c through middle c)

[guidofatherof5]

im in music theory i had to learn to...apparently im ranged the octavebelow middle c (the c before middle c through middle c)

Huh.:confused: I have no music ability or knowledge. No art ability. Well, that's not exactly true.
I can draw flies in the Summer.:D

[Snakers]

I can draw flies in the Summer.:D
I wish I didn't have that talent.....

[mustang]

i draw snakes but i dont attract many lol my luck sucks

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a nice close-up of Nova.
She's got it go'in on:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/redred.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

That's not real. You went and hand-painted those scales, didn't you?:p

[guidofatherof5]

That's not real. You went and hand-painted those scales, didn't you?:p

She's the real deal. Nothing fake on her. She all natural.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Oh yeah, almost forgot, you have no art ability. No way you could have painted something so beautiful.:D

[The Snake Whisperer]

I wish I could find a nice rich red eastern boy to breed to my eastern girls. And a couple of girl red sideds for my two red sided boys! Red is my favorite color!

[ConcinusMan]

Well then, consider getting some of my beautiful Oregon Red Spotted babies? (There I go again with the pitch) Even with them, red is not red. More of a very dark orange.