sometimes experienced breeders aren't really "experienced"

[Faunaofthenorth]

ok, so i was at the minnesota reptile show last sunday on the 15th in bloomington, mn, and aside from not really seeing any type of "non"-python/boa/rat/corn snake, there was one garter. This guy who was selling pythons and boas and baby caimans which i thought to be quite odd, had one snake that immediately caught my eye. He had a baby florida blue eastern, which he was from florida. Anyways, i looked at it and immediately was flabbergasted at the fact that he had it in this smelly little round container with about a dozens small crickets, i told him that insects are not part of their natural diet and he said.."well you are just the customer, and i am the breeder, and i'm also experienced so i'm not gonna take your word for it"...and he shut me out, i was like wtf!!! so i bought it to rescue it from probable death, and i told him that you must now expect to have dead garter snakes on your hands if you continue to keep them with these "ill-informed" practices. The baby was wild caught and is very shy and i had to result into force feeding it in order to save it as it was malnourished. It is doing alright, and it also was infested with mites so i'm battling them as well :mad:, but...:D happy that i got a new snake, i will post pics when i get the chance...man some people i tell you

[mustang]

man some people i tell youi know what you mean...idiots...surprised that bozo didnt pass himself off as a politician....hed blend right in with em.

[kibakiba]

Omg! Poor snake. I hate idiots like that. I cant believe he said that. Experienced my a**. At least your caring enough to take it in. I cant wait to see the cutie :)

[Stefan-A]

"When others do a foolish thing, you should tell them it is a foolish thing. They can still continue to do it, but at least the truth is where it needs to be."

[Faunaofthenorth]

exactly, stefan, i agree, and yea it is really cute, not sure on the sex yet, but it made me feel very uncomfortable the whole time i was there, that little baby should be in the wild in florida where it belongs, not all the way up here where its freezing 9 months out of the year, at least if its not captive bred, at least that's how i feel

[Faunaofthenorth]

this is actually the second time ive had to rescue a garter snake species from a different state because of accidents like this...the first time was at my local pet store before it shut down. the local owner used to get shpiments from LLL reptile, and other importers and he ordered only 3 xenocrophis vittatus, and i know it wasnt his mistake because i saw the order form and it said in bold "quantity-3" and when the shipment came in, there were at least 70. i used to go there twice a day once during open lunch in high school and then after school. That was 5 years ago when that happened. Anyways, i went there after shool and he was like "well...they arrived, only not exactly what i ordered...there were 70." I was like omg wtf, about 3/4ths of them died because of the quantity, and when i saw them, i immediately recognized an oddity out of place. In the shipment, by accident, a young, male, sirtalis annectans, or texas garter, was under the huge pile, i grabbed it and said i want it...how much and he said...ill give it to you for the price of the air we breathe, i was like sweet, and well i saved him and have had him for 5 years, and he was at least two or three when i got him, and hes as healthy as ever, hes my favorite out of the 100s ive kept

[Faunaofthenorth]

i have also saved a melanistic central american garter snake as well, which was awesome, although it died, sadly about 8 months to a year after i received it. I wanted to get a hold of scott f. back then but it died, at least i tried

[guidofatherof5]

Nice save. Thanks for taking the time and spending the money on behalf of that snake.
Very cool.

[kibakiba]

^^^ What Steve said. Once I get my job as a DJ I'm going to move into a 2 bedroom apartment and take in garter snakes that I find in pet shops :D I cant stand mistreated snakes. I'd rather have them for me instead, or another forum member of course. I only trust you guys ;)

[mb90078]

I'm not sure he even counts as an experienced breeder. He may (or may not) know about certain species of reptiles, but even if he does, that does not make him and expert on all of them.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm not sure he even counts as an experienced breeder. He may (or may not) know about certain species of reptiles, but even if he does, that does not make him and expert on all of them.

Print off a care cheet and give it to him. Do it in a professional way and maybe he'll even look at it. It never hurts to try;)

[infernalis]

This has been said before, but I will repeat it...

The major downside to "saving" snakes from pet shops is it promotes them to order more snakes in to replace the ones you "saved"

Sounds awful, but if you don't buy it.. the pet shop will most likely not order more of them.

[guidofatherof5]

This has been said before, but I will repeat it...

The major downside to "saving" snakes from pet shops is it promotes them to order more snakes in to replace the ones you "saved"

Sounds awful, but if you don't buy it.. the pet shop will most likely not order more of them.

Kind of a "Catch 22" Makes for a tough decision when dealing from the heart.:)

[Spankenstyne]

Kind of a "Catch 22" Makes for a tough decision when dealing from the heart.:)

Absolutely it's tough, but Wayne's right. It's that tough immediate decision that will pay off in the long run.
I've seen a few "petstores" out here stop selling most or all of their reptiles because "they're too much of a hassle to keep alive and nobody wants to buy them" (or some variation of).
Unfortunately still too many folks mean well and keep buying up someone else's problem animals that usually end up in heartbreak and big vet bill$.

The good places that research and have experienced people are still doing just fine.

I'm all for rescuing reptiles, it's thankless and very noble, but paying someone for those animals unfortunately feeds the cycle.

[Snakers]

I don't understand people like that!

[Faunaofthenorth]

that i completely agree with. I think he was trying to say he was experienced because of the amount of time he has bred. I personally feel that he was not experienced, at least like you said...in some reptile species. He did have "OK" quality boas but i still felt bad for them, though, but i'm happy i saved the baby, i only hope he starts eating on his own and hopefully doesnt develop any problems, and i hope i can irradicate the mites before they infest everything

[kibakiba]

Indeed, maybe you can take it to the vet? Poor thing. I really hate idiots like that guy. I like to act like I know what I'm talking about, especially with computers... But I'd never say I'm experienced. It'd make me look like an idiot. Lol.

[Spankenstyne]

I really hope you're not putting the rest of your collection at risk by having done this.

I totally understand where you're coming from. I think we all, as reptile lovers understand the sentiment behind weanting to help as many of them as we can. Your compassion is commendable.

[infernalis]

Just to clarify, Vendors are not always breeders, breeders are not always vendors.

BS flows at shows like water in a storm.

Table "A" will BS you about table "B" if it means getting the sale.

[Mommy2many]

Thank you for saving the baby.

[Faunaofthenorth]

ha thanks guys, i used a little bit of olive oil to at least kill most of the surface mites on him, but his cage though, ive cleaned it. If i see more ill take it to the vet and hopefully get some ivermectin which will almost be guranteed to take care of the problem. His pattern is so beautiful it will definitely turn out blue to greenish blue in the future, ill take a pic in a bit here to show you the little guy

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

While I understand it is hard sometimes, I wish more people could resist "saving" poor snakes that are stuck in these positions. If you get it for free that's one thing, but paying money for a snake like that only supports the problem, empowers that guy to go out and do the same thing.... and also puts any animals you already have at serious risk. You have saved this snake, but you have doomed the next snake that guy goes out and catches. I would have taken a picture or two of the snake, and then it at his table, and publicly call him out for the ignorant sod he is. Humiliate him at the show and maybe he will leave the next garter he sees where it is and stick to boas.

[ConcinusMan]

"I'm the breeder" now that's funny. Since when does taking a baby snake from the wild make you the breeder? It would be interesting to see how long you remain a garter snake breeder by attempting to sustain them on crickets. What a true nit-wit. Dang snake probably got mites because his entire collection is infested with them. I know it may sound cold but I flat refuse to buy a snake like that from an idiot. Sure, it would probably die but I don't want mites in my house and buying only encourages more snakes to be in that situation. Buying should never be done in these circumstances, even if your intention is to "save" the snake.

[guidofatherof5]

ha thanks guys, i used a little bit of olive oil to at least kill most of the surface mites on him, but his cage though, ive cleaned it. If i see more ill take it to the vet and hopefully get some ivermectin which will almost be guranteed to take care of the problem. His pattern is so beautiful it will definitely turn out blue to greenish blue in the future, ill take a pic in a bit here to show you the little guy

The problem isn't with the mites you can see. The young are microscopic and must be treated or they will re-infest your snakes. If you wait until you see them your problem is already big.
May I suggest Provent-A-Mite http://www.pro-products.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=59Placing (http://www.pro-products.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=59Placing)

Placing the snake in a warm and humid shed box will force many mites off the snake but there again it's the ones you can't see that will be growing.