Stacked

[Stefan-A]

Found this when I came home on Friday.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/newterrariums-0.jpg


Size 75x60x36 cm, bought from M&S Reptilien in Germany. Communication worked fine and the enclosures weren't that expensive.

The quality was a bit of a disappointment, though. On 4 out of 6 enclosures, the hole plate the manufacturer had attached for ventilation had been bent so much that my males could possibly escape through the gap.

The gap between the sliding glass doors is so big, that I fear that even my 75cm female wandering garter might escape that way.

The E-profile tracks vary in length quite a bit. On one enclosure, the gap it left in one end, was almost big enough for me to stick a finger inside the enclosure when the doors were closed. That was easily fixed by just changing which door closes which end.

The cutting was pretty crude, too and the edges are really wavy. The holes they drilled before cutting the front are visible on most of the enclosures and the purple marker they used to draw the outline of what was to be cut out, still shows in a couple of the enclosures.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/newterrariums-1.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/newterrariums-1b.jpg

Only two snakes have moved in so far.

[guidofatherof5]

Have you ever bought from this company before?
Are you able to modify the problems to make them usable?
At a distance they look like a good setup.
Best of luck with them.

[drache]

they look good from here
as long as the flaws are fixable, a good deal is a good deal

[Stefan-A]

Have you ever bought from this company before?
Are you able to modify the problems to make them usable?
At a distance they look like a good setup.
Best of luck with them.
Nope, first time, but they have a good reputation. I don't blame the ones who sold them, but whoever designed and manufactured them needs to start doing some quality control. Modifying them is easy, but I'd rather not have to.

[Stefan-A]

they look good from here
as long as the flaws are fixable, a good deal is a good deal
I agree, it was a good deal despite the flaws. But they are still flaws that could have been prevented quite easily.

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/sloppy1.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/sloppy2.jpg

[lestat]

I would send them back and save your self having to modify them but that is me. They look good though and if you get the problems solved they should house a lot. Hope to see the little uns in them.

[Stefan-A]

I would send them back and save your self having to modify them but that is me. They look good though and if you get the problems solved they should house a lot. Hope to see the little uns in them.
That wouldn't save me the trouble of sending them back, though. Modifying them is easier and quicker.

[infernalis]

They do look like they are attractive enclosures once you get the bugs ironed out.

[justme]

I can understand the slight annoyance of having to modify but I am sure you are handy. These cages look very easy to clean which is a great feature. Good luck with your new setup. So far looks great! ;-)

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, it won't be a problem to fix them and cleaning should be easy. But it bothers me that they weren't designed, much less manufactured to be "escape proof" for the size of snake that would inhabit an enclosure that size.

[Spankenstyne]

That's the engineer in you talking now ;)

Apart from the problems mentioned they sure do look like they'll make great looking homes. I'm sure you'll have them fixed to your liking in no time.

[Stefan-A]

That's the engineer in you talking now ;)

No, the engineer in me started looking up local plastics companies, studying the qualities of different plastics, drawing models and considering requesting offers approximately 3 years ago. :D

That's not even a joke. For a while, I was seriously considering making a test series.

[Snaky]

A pitty for the small flaws. But if you can optimize them with small effort, they look nice :)

[guidofatherof5]

Yeah, it won't be a problem to fix them and cleaning should be easy. But it bothers me that they weren't designed, much less manufactured to be "escape proof" for the size of snake that would inhabit an enclosure that size.


How did the company advertise them? Were they designed for larger snakes? Did they tell you they would work for garter snakes?
Just wondering.

[Stefan-A]

How did the company advertise them? Were they designed for larger snakes? Did they tell you they would work for garter snakes?
Just wondering.
Durable, ventilated, easy to stack, sizes may vary a few millimeters. That's the ad in a nutshell. I didn't tell them what I was going to house and that was my mistake. One of them anyway.

I know people that would jam a 2 meter boa into one this size, but reason tells me that most of the snake owners among the target demographic are looking to buy enclosures for snakes with a length equal or less than the width + depth of the enclosure. That's a rule of thumb that's commonly used for determining the minimum size of an enclosure.

[adamanteus]

They look really good, Stefan. The flaws are an annoyance, but you can sort it!;)

[Stefan-A]

Anyway, this is the lighting solution I'm implementing:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/newterrariums-2.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/newterrariums-3.jpg

LEDs. Two 25 cm strips is plenty for enclosures this size. You could even cut it down to one per enclosure, if you want to leave some parts of the enclosures a bit darker. They produce no UV and virtually no heat. And at 0.96W per strip, they should be very energy efficient.

It's a pity they aren't IP67 rated, but I think it would be pretty easy to, for example, embed them in clear resin.

They also sell these in IKEA under a different name.

[mustang]

thats a good rack (if u fixed it)(no innuendo intended)

[Ameivaboy]

Wow, those are nearly identical to vision cages produced here in the US- I suppose that's where they got their "idea" from.

[Ameivaboy]

Have you notified the company of the issues with the cages?

[Stefan-A]

thats a good rack (if u fixed it)(no innuendo intended)
You know, the term "stacked" means more or less the same thing. You could say that I beat you to the pun. :D

Stacked - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stacked)

[Stefan-A]

Wow, those are nearly identical to vision cages produced here in the US- I suppose that's where they got their "idea" from.
Yeah, I noticed it's indeed identical to the V300 Vision cage.

V300 Vision Cage (http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/vision-cages-racks-tubs-and-visionariums/vision-cages-and-tubs/-/v300-vision-cage/)

M&S Reptilien (http://www.ms-reptilien.de/product_info.php?cPath=4_48_489&products_id=19479)

It's not even funny, is this company selling Vision cages that were rejected by Vision's quality control? :rolleyes:


Have you notified the company of the issues with the cages?
No, but I will.

[Stefan-A]

We are not amused.

So, earlier today I unpacked the last doors and guess what I found. One of the doors had some clear tape stuck to it. And when I say "some", I mean it was stretched straight across the entire pane. Well, after about 10 minutes of scratching off tiny pieces of tape (well of course it wouldn't come off in one piece), I ended up with a piece of glass with a 5 cm (48 mm to be honest) wide trail of adhesive running across it. So, until I can get my hands on a suitable solvent for removing the adhesive, that door is useless. Well, that door will go nicely with one of the enclosures, because as I found out about 10 minutes after I gave up on the glass door, the plastic around the front was warped to the point where you can't even shut the door without using force.

[mustang]

You know, the term "stacked" means more or less the same thing. You could say that I beat you to the pun. :D

Stacked - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stacked)
well see im not so good at admitting i wasnt first so well just say i got it lol:D:p:rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Jeez you guys, I know it's easy for you to think I'm just saying it, but I actually caught that very early in the thread "stacked, rack... haha" I just kept quiet about it 'cause I didn't want to sound like an as. I do that enough without even trying. Thanks for sounding like one for me... lol..just kidding.

I actually walked into a local reptile shop not long ago and they had a locked room with a window that the public could see through, and inside I could see some very nice rack setups. Just for fun I exclaimed in front of several people "Oh wow, check out that rack!" :p People actually turned and looked at me. A few guys snickered.:D

But seriously, sounds like the flaws with this product are downright horrible. I don't care what kind of discount one gets, when it comes to our snakes, lousy housing just won't cut it.

Hopefully Stefan, you'll be able to work on these and make them adequate. Without the flaws, I'd say these are pretty darn cool. I could go for something like that. Much more desirable than a traditional drawer rack imho.

[Stefan-A]

But seriously, sounds like the flaws with this product are downright horrible. I don't care what kind of discount one gets, when it comes to our snakes, lousy housing just won't cut it.
Yeah, apparently they come "from China". No wonder they didn't mention any brands or manufacturers, it looks like the enclosures are Vision knock-offs.

Anyway, I glued a few pieces of 2 mm thick aluminium to the doors. Got the space between the doors down to a little over 3 mm. Should be enough.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/space-solution.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

I've dealt with sliding door front enclosures before and always had issues with them such as the gap between panels, and also stuff getting in the tracks. I guess that's why I'm a bit turned off to them. I did go and visit Redspot (Nate) and he had some really nice enclosures similar to that, but the doors swung open and there was a good 3 inch lip at the bottom. Anyway, these were very nice enclosures, very expensive too, but they did look somewhat similar to yours.

He had small ones with garters all the way up to huge one's with full grown cribbo's in them.

[Stefan-A]

I have a strong dislike of swinging doors, unless it's in a top-access enclosure. I've had enough problems with the ones I've used.

I did have plans for doors for one of my earlier enclosures, that could both swing and slide and that would seal the gap to practically nothing.

[guidofatherof5]

Yeah, apparently they come "from China". No wonder they didn't mention any brands or manufacturers, it looks like the enclosures are Vision knock-offs.

Anyway, I glued a few pieces of 2 mm thick aluminium to the doors. Got the space between the doors down to a little over 3 mm. Should be enough.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/space-solution.jpg

Sounds like you've solved your problem, right? I get the feeling your not exactly happy with your fix or am I reading it wrong.

[Stefan-A]

Sounds like you've solved your problem, right? I get the feeling your not exactly happy with your fix or am I reading it wrong.
Having to fix it, is the part I'm not exactly happy with. Whoever designed that feature, was stupid and I've ended up paying for his stupidity.

[guidofatherof5]

Having to fix it, is the part I'm not exactly happy with. Whoever designed that feature, was stupid and I've ended up paying for his stupidity.

That's life. I'm finding that to be the normal.
Too bad it has to be that way but I just don't think companies try things out. They just design, produce and ship.
Let the customer deal with it seem to be their philosophy.

[Stefan-A]

That's life. I'm finding that to be the normal.
Unacceptable.


Too bad it has to be that way but I just don't think companies try things out. They just design, produce and ship.
Let the customer deal with it seem to be their philosophy.
Indeed. But you'd think they'd do at least some rudimentary requirement analysis before they start designing these things.

[guidofatherof5]

Indeed. But you'd think they'd do at least some rudimentary requirement analysis before they start designing these things.

Any normal person would think so.

I bought a large shopvac 10 years ago. It was full of design flaws that made it a big inconvenience to use. These were easy fixes and I thought common sense would have shown them this before they ever put it into production.
I called them and tried to explain what was wrong. The guy I talked to could have cared less about the products inability to do its job or its inconvenience to the customer.

[Stefan-A]

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself and I'd really like to start designing enclosures thanks to this case.

[drache]

what do you expect in an age where salesmanship apparently reaps more tangible rewards than craftsmanship?
it's really quite sad once I get past the part where it doesn't make sense