identity please

[PINJOHN]

hi this is kenzo she is a rescue snake, she was brought into a local pet shop with a large hole in her side about six years ago, the pet shop owner knowing my interest in garters ask if i would take her, he was doubtful of her chances [so was i ] but she pulled through, the hole in her side healed but a large depression remains, because the original wound was so deep it was necessary to make sure her food was kept to small pieces this is done by feeding her mostly cat food from sachets, the type i use is whiskas which has vitamins and minerals but also no artificial flavourings i am able to cut this up into pieces much smaller than she would ordinarily swallow to allow for the damage to her stomach she has grown a fair bit since she has been with me the cat food comes in many flavours and she loves them all even the none fish variates she is easily the most placid friendly snake i have ever owned . but i have never been totally sure what type she is. i hope the photographs are good enough to do the job

[kibakiba]

Ummm I don't think cat food is good for a garter snake. I can't remember the name but maybe someone will tell you, its on the tip of my tongue though ;)
Perhaps you should feed her something more nutritious, like a cut up guppy or some cut up trout, or earthworms.

[Stefan-A]

T. radix.

[drache]

Thamnophis Radix - Plains Garter
Steve can tell you all about them
great job with the hole
you probably can switch her to real food now

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful T.radix.
Get her switched to real radix food. Start with night crawlers, fish fillet(salmon or tilapia), pinkies(mice)
You did a great job caring for her wound. It looks healed.
Check out the care sheet for more on food types:Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet#Food_Types )
Thank you for taking the time to care for her.

[ssssnakeluvr]

definitely a plains garter. and definitely get her off cat food (she is not a cat :rolleyes:)

[PINJOHN]

thanks everyone for your swift replies i thought she was radix with that beautiful orange stripe, it was the blue sides that gave me some hesitation, all though i know that radix can vary a fair bit. i noticed some worry from you all about her diet but i can assure you that the cat food that she receives contains whole pieces of fish i know using cat food is a controversial subject but i have been using it for very many years, long before the birth of the internet and before most of the books on garter snakes were written. what i mean by that is if i was just beginning with garters i would take the advice and avoid the cat food, in reality i have raised very many broods of very healthy garters with no problems at all, i do vary their diet of course with rodents but the cat food remains the staple. only kenzo has been fed cat food exclusively but after noting what you all had to say i will introduce pinkies to her diet [ chopped up to enable it to pass the narrowed part of her stomach caused by the scaring ] it was the worry of something sticking in the narrow part [bone and such] that has made me over cautious with kenzos diet < i dont think i have had such a great affection for any other snake in all my year of keeping them> i hope my mention of the many years i have kept garters does not paint me as some kind of know all its actually quit the opposite, since discovering the internet and thamnophis.com in particular i now know just how little i knew, and read the threads to pick up hints from other peoples observations and experiences. once again thanks for the help

[guidofatherof5]

My concern is the fact that cat food is a processed item. Specifically designed for a mammal. Garter snakes will eat many things that wouldn't be considered good for them but they will eat it anyway. They don't care, it's food. Even if it's bad for them. My suggestion is to slowly replace the cat food with other more natural foods.
Just my opinion.
There is no deigning you've done a great job with her.

[drui9201]

Stop feeding that crap to your animals. Even "name brand" cat foods, wet and dry, aren't even particularly healthy for your cats. They're processed and contain far too many things that are unhealthy, or are straight up indigestible.

Aside from this, cat and dog food contains far too much (processed)fat in it to be used as reptile food. Your snake looks like it's stuffed with fatty build up like a sausage. I'm specifically talking about the first image. From what I understand, considering her age and captivity, that she is not gravid. There's no reason for her lower end to look as stuffed as that.

Honestly, would you feed your children cheeseburgers from McDonald's every day and say "Well, they're not dead or in the hospital so obviously what I'm doing works."?

[PINJOHN]

drui9201 your reply seems somewhat aggressive are you perhaps out to impress us all with you indignation on behalf of my poor abused radix. the cat food used consists of whole pieces of fish, its true that it is surrounded by aspic jelly but this is easily removed, while i have always been satisfied that that my diet fed to my snakes was healthy, i am thinking that i should at least take into account what some experienced snake keepers are telling me. BUT JUST A THOUGHT. there have always been things accepted as fact, sometimes for generations only to be turned over at a later date. but perhaps i am being unfair, maybe you are a scientist with an extensive load of research in to transfats fattyacids and such and their affect on garter snakes OR PERHAPS YOU ARE JUST REPEATING WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD OTHER MEMBERS ALREADY SAY

[Snakers]

Stop feeding that crap to your animals. Even "name brand" cat foods, wet and dry, aren't even particularly healthy for your cats. They're processed and contain far too many things that are unhealthy, or are straight up indigestible.

Aside from this, cat and dog food contains far too much (processed)fat in it to be used as reptile food. Your snake looks like it's stuffed with fatty build up like a sausage. I'm specifically talking about the first image. From what I understand, considering her age and captivity, that she is not gravid. There's no reason for her lower end to look as stuffed as that.

Honestly, would you feed your children cheeseburgers from McDonald's every day and say "Well, they're not dead or in the hospital so obviously what I'm doing works."?
:eek:.............................................

[Snakers]

drui9201 your reply seems somewhat aggressive are you perhaps out to impress us all with you indignation on behalf of my poor abused radix. the cat food used consists of whole pieces of fish, its true that it is surrounded by aspic jelly but this is easily removed, while i have always been satisfied that that my diet fed to my snakes was healthy, i am thinking that i should at least take into account what some experienced snake keepers are telling me. BUT JUST A THOUGHT. there have always been things accepted as fact, sometimes for generations only to be turned over at a later date. but perhaps i am being unfair, maybe you are a scientist with an extensive load of research in to transfats fattyacids and such and their affect on garter snakes OR PERHAPS YOU ARE JUST REPEATING WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD OTHER MEMBERS ALREADY SAY
Hey seeing that the cat food contains fish why don't you try f/t silversides from most pet stores.

[Stefan-A]

Hey seeing that the cat food contains fish why don't you try f/t silversides from most pet stores.
Geography.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I am going to simply say what I have to say. I personally would not feed my garters cat food. The snake does not appear overstuffed to me, it just looks well fed. I would have to guess you are feeding the whiskas purrfectly fish pouches? Have seen them before, they literally have whole cross sections of fish in them surrounded by gravy. What worries me, is what is actually soaked into that fish from that nasty gravy. Trust me, being made by whiskas, that gravy's got some gross stuff in it. And the fact remains that if you cut into the fish you can see that it has still been heavily processed. Sadly, whiskas, purina, pedigree, science diet, mostly all of those big names in dog and cat food sell garbage that is packaged as if it were canned gold. They utilize a lot of nasty by-products and fillers. If I had to feed a snake canned fish of any type, I would use plain canned fish in water... to avoid the nasty additives that you can not see merely by reading the ingredients in cat food. There are a few good books that will go into detail about how most processed dog and cat food is made. Processed cat food is not even very good for cats... which is why I advocate the raw fed diet. Not even cats are made to eat processed food... and it is shown in the sheer numbers of cats that end up with urinary tract problems, allergies, failing kidneys and livers each year. I get customers DAILY that need help to choose healthier feeding regimens for their cats or dogs because of the problems caused by processed foods. They are appalled by the price difference between the good stuff and the junk stuff, but even then, you have to be careful because prices and packaging (such as science diet) can be deceiving.

[PINJOHN]

thank you snakelovinbabe your information is very welcome and has certainly given me pause for thought, it looks like i should take another look at my regime. just as an aside my kids pointed out to me that we have not had kenzo for about six years as stated but for over ten years [ i am hopeless at remembering time spans, ask my wife] and as she was an adult when we got her she has to be twelve minimum what does this make her in human terms [age wise],
it would be tempting to say that her diet has done her no harm at all but it occurs to me that there are all ways exceptions like the people who smoke forty a day and live into their eighty's perhaps kenzo has survived in spite of her diet not because of it

regards pinjohn

[drui9201]

No, I'm not trying to impress anyone. My post was aggressive because that is down right terrible to feed to a snake or any reptile. I don't care if your snake has been alive on it for its entire life, that does not make it healthy at all.

You shouldn't need someone on this forum to give you an education on the fillers and crap by products that are in processed foods fed to cats and dogs. It's right on the ingredients list. Like I said, those foods aren't even particularly healthy for the animals they're made for, let alone a reptile.

[gartermorphs]

drui9201 i believe you are acting very irresponsible first of all Pinjohn is on here to learn more not to be yelled at. and you really need to watch your language there are children on this forum even though you may have forgotten.im personally very happy to see pinjohn willing take advice

[guidofatherof5]

Well said, Beth.:)

[kibakiba]

I have to agree with drui9201 on this. It's probably a lot cheaper even to feed her something like nightcrawlers or pinkies. They can be cut up if she needs something smaller. Just because she has lived for that long doesn't mean you should do it, you could be harming her and not know it. As in LONG TERM harm. feed it something nutritious, make the poor snake happier with food that's real proper snake food. Not junk. You wouldn't feed the snake hamburger just cause it'd be easier for her to swallow and because she took it would you? I doubt it, its unhealthy even for humans to eat it. Maybe you should just take the forums advice and feed her guppies, or silversides or even worms.

[guidofatherof5]

I believe PINJOHN has been very open minded to the replies he's received. We were all once just starting out in this garter snake thing and have all made our share of mistakes. I for one used to feed minnows but because of the forum and it's caring members I don't feed them anymore.
I for one don't want to throw any rocks as I live in a glass house, also.:)

[kibakiba]

Thats true but to me I can't understand why someone would be informed that feeding them cat food is a bad idea, and still say that it's healthy for them. I just can't. It's a lot cheaper to buy "snake chow" than it is to buy wiskas soft food... junk. Here, those cost 10 dollars, and only have like 30 pieces in them. For 10 dollars I could get 6 pinkies and 3 fuzzies and feed my snakes for a month and a half, I breed night crawlers and have an unlimited supply for free. It's just more sensible to do what's right for your snake. They don't need the extra preservatives and junk that's in CAT food. I can understand something like that for something short term or absolute last resort, or even to see what happens... But as a primary food source, no way.

[kibakiba]

I read through my post and I might sound mean to some people, but the intention of my posts wasnt to be rude or sound rude. I'm neither trying to be mean or nice in this case, I'm seriously concerned for the well-being of the snake, for obvious reasons. And I just don't understand why someone would make a mistake, be told its a mistake and then continue doing it. I love garter snakes, every one of them and I'd like to see more people take care of theirs properly. When I used to catch garters I thought they ate bugs, thats what my mom told me, so I always tried feeding them bugs. Even with Snakey when I first got him I fed him crickets and grasshoppers. I didn't know any better, but the day I found out they cant and shouldnt ever eat those, I rode my bike 3 miles to the nearest store that carried night crawlers so he could have something better for him to eat. I didn't take any time to "consider" whether I'd rather feed him something he cant eat or feed him something that costs me a lot of money(I have no job, so 10 dollars is a lot ;) ) but anyways. Sorry if I sounded rude, demanding, pissy or anything like that. I just feel major concern.

[ConcinusMan]

Ok, I think everyone has been very civil here. We all agree that cat food is a bad idea. The snake in question is not necessarily going to just up and die because of it and PINJOHN is here asking our advice which is good, and the sign of a concerned and responsible keeper. Same goes for kibakiba when he came to us for advice because his snake wouldn't eat the "bugs" that were offered.

I think that PINJOHN's snake would readily take to trout fish fillets, or any safe fish he can get in his area, and of course, radixes usually love night crawlers too. Good looking out for your garter PINJOHN, and let's look forward to hearing about success with introducing these foods to his rescued radix.


I read through my post and I might sound mean to some people, but the intention of my posts wasnt to be rude or sound rude. I'm neither trying to be mean or nice in this case, I'm seriously concerned for the well-being of the snake, for obvious reasons. And I just don't understand why someone would make a mistake, be told its a mistake and then continue doing it. I love garter snakes, every one of them and I'd like to see more people take care of theirs properly. Sorry if I sounded rude, demanding, pissy or anything like that. I just feel major concern.

Totally understandable. I get a bit "over the top" at times when it comes to seeing animals mistreated, even if it's unintentional. your response is forgivable.;)

[kibakiba]

I'm a girl ;) and I didn't come here to see that garters eat worms (though, it was one of the sites i had visited to get more info) but anyways, at least you understand :)

[ConcinusMan]

Of course I do. Also, if you could do some editing with your profile, I wouldn't look so stupid as to call you a "he".;)

Remember, if sex is unknown, whether it be a screen name or snake, all are "he" to me until otherwise known.;)

It helps to know age and sex of the person you are talking to. It really does.:cool:

So just to clarify, I am a 40 year old male not far from you.:D

[kibakiba]

Haha, indeed. Just like when I called flicker a "he" :P
I already knew you were a man and an older one, not trying to be offensive, compared to me you could be my dad ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Not offended at all. I am more than a dad. I am a grandfather.:eek: My daughter is 21 and recently had her first child.;)

[kibakiba]

Nice, I'm an auntie to 10 kids, probably more on the way too. Haha.

[ConcinusMan]

I only have two nieces, I love "to pieces" LoL. One is 17, the other is 6.

[kibakiba]

Haha ;) My oldest is around 13... I think.. there's so many I cant keep track!

[ConcinusMan]

I guess I compensate with my garter snakes... "there's so many, I can't keep track"

No, not really. Just kidding, but some days, it seems that way.

And to think, I can't wait until they all have their babies. Talk about a lot to keep track of!

But seriously, when this baby season is over with, I will not only be parting with all those babies, but will be also parting with some of those parent snakes in favor of new babies / species / morphs for future breeding.

I mean, look at this. All huge, all gravid.. snakes, and snakes, and snakes, "oh my!"

http://a.imageshack.us/img411/6716/gedc1472.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img96/5253/gedc1578.jpg

[kibakiba]

Wow,lovely snakes :) Snakey and Mama bred but both are young and snakey didn't brumate so I doubt she's gravid :P By now though she'd be pretty big, she's not ;) I had them together when I thought they were both girls lol. Snakey showed me he wasn't a girl...:rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Hey, they are northwesterns. Don't forget, the females are.. well, sluts. They will accept sperm from a male perhaps in spring. Hold onto it, breed again with another male in the fall sometimes. And again with a third male in the following spring sometimes. They ovulate when they want to. Just because a mating has taken place, you can't count on babies a certain time later. If and when she's ready, she'll ovulate and the eggs will be fertilized by one or more fathers. You can't predict when she'll have her babies based on the day of mating. Not at all. She'll sleep around and she gets to choose if and when she becomes gravid.

What a life a snake has huh?

[kibakiba]

Well she's pretty into the new handsome boy who just shed 5 minutes ago, they're courting again and there was quite a lot of tail holding going on just now ;) Tried to get a picture but my camera was doing a drunk looking double vision thin, so I just got the top of their body :/ I'll post pictures on my thread after I crop and resize :D

[PINJOHN]

i would like to apologize for the tone of my reply to drui9201
the thing i have come to value this sight for is the exceptional friendliness of the members , on discovering this sight i was blown away by the enthusiasm of the members to help out on the numerous questions and problems which came up,
no sooner had a problem come in than the screen would fill up with replies from members trying to help out.
the sarcasm which i employed was definitely not in the spirit of thamnophis.com
any future contributions from me will be inquisitive or supportive, definitely not negative. so folks while i work on developing a thicker skin, you lot stay the friendly helpful crowd that you are.

[ConcinusMan]

We can't be as awesome as our snakes. - We're only human.

[Hollis_Steed]

i would like to apologize for the tone of my reply to drui9201
the thing i have come to value this sight for is the exceptional friendliness of the members , on discovering this sight i was blown away by the enthusiasm of the members to help out on the numerous questions and problems which came up,
no sooner had a problem come in than the screen would fill up with replies from members trying to help out.
the sarcasm which i employed was definitely not in the spirit of thamnophis.com
any future contributions from me will be inquisitive or supportive, definitely not negative. so folks while i work on developing a thicker skin, you lot stay the friendly helpful crowd that you are.
Good form! This is a great place to be isn't it! Great people, great snakes...now if we could just share great food we'd have it made!:)

[guidofatherof5]

Let's all meet at Jeff's. He'll throw something on the grill. Sounds like a great time.
Jeff, what time do you want us over?:D

[Hollis_Steed]

Let's all meet at Jeff's. He'll throw something on the grill. Sounds like a great time.
Jeff, what time do you want us over?:D
Well, let's see...I'm guessing it would take you about 16 +/- hours to drive to my house, and then I still have to put the coals on...so let's say about....aw heck, how 'bout tomorrow evening!:D

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds great.
"Start packing kids, we've got us a road trip.":D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm already on my way!

[Hollis_Steed]

The door is always open! Anytime!

[guidofatherof5]

If and when I get there I will be bringing a couple hundred radixes. They like their worms and pinkies raw.
"T.radix, never leave home without one"
I think it was Karl Malden who made that line famous.:D Credit where credit is due:D

[Hollis_Steed]

If and when I get there I will be bringing a couple hundred radixes. They like their worms and pinkies raw.
"T.radix, never leave home without one"
I think it was Karl Malden who made that line famous.:D Credit where credit is due:D
What do you mean "if" I get there?:confused:
Oh well, I won't start the charcoals until I see you drive up:D

[guidofatherof5]

What do you mean "if" I get there?:confused:
Oh well, I won't start the charcoals until I see you drive up:D

Sorry, I've got too many babies that need attention.:D I'll let you know when we start out.

[ConcinusMan]

As much I'd love to, I'm not going anywhere. It's snake birthing time. One already in labor, a second one looks to be close behind.

[PINJOHN]

dont forget me i will be ASAP NOW WHICH IS THE NEAREST AIRPORT TO NORTHERN UTAH

[Hollis_Steed]

dont forget me i will be ASAP NOW WHICH IS THE NEAREST AIRPORT TO NORTHERN UTAH
Salt Lake City! I'm about an hour and a half north. the beautiful Cache Valley!:D