Help ID please

[stonyloam]

My nephew found this in central Missouri. Using my vast knowledge of garter snakes :)I am guessing Plains garter (T. radix). Does it look gravid to you? Thanks!!!!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/plains_garter1.jpg

[GarterGuy]

Ok, with just a top view it's really hard to tell if it's a T.radix or not. A side shot would work a lot better. The differance between the common (T.sirtalis) and Plains (T.radix) is that the side stripe is on the 3rd and 4th scale row (2nd and 3rd on sirtalis) and also they have a row of black spots between the side stripe and the belly. As far as it being gravid....doesn't really look like it.....kind of lean looking for a gravid snake. Hope this helps.
Roy

[adamanteus]

Hi Terry, I'm not the man to tell you what it is, I'll leave that to the other guys, but I can tell you what it isn't...it isn't T. radix! It does look gravid, doesn't it.

[Thamnophis]

It is T. radix or T. sirtalis.
Can't tell from the picture.
And gravid... can't really see.

[hjelte]

well a sideshot as mentioned is the best way to determine the species, but I have both a radix and a sirtalis, and I think that it looks much more like a sirtalis judging from the shape of the head and the colouring. Hope someone of the experts here at the forum will help you out!

Regards//Chris

[Cazador]

Hey Terry,

I can also tell you what it isn't... I'm pretty sure it isn't a tetrataenia, and I'm almost positive it isn't an infernalis :D. Beyond that, my snake ID abilities are pretty limited :o.

I can, however, tell you that the majority of the bulk on that snake appears to be in the front half of the snake. You would expect the bulk to be in rear half if it were gravid. I can't rule out the possibility that it's in the very early stages of gestation, though.

Rick

P.S. Just a word of caution... I'd strongly encourage you never to release this snake in New York, particularily if it turns out to be a radix.

[stonyloam]

"P.S. Just a word of caution... I'd strongly encourage you never to release this snake in New York, particularly if it turns out to be a radix."

Because it would not survive? It is in Missouri and will probably stay there.

[Josh]

it looks like my eastern

[Cazador]

"P.S. Just a word of caution... I'd strongly encourage you never to release this snake in New York, particularly if it turns out to be a radix."

Because it would not survive? It is in Missouri and will probably stay there.



Nah. It would probably survive just fine in New York. That's the problem, though. It's not native to New York, so you don't know if it would outcompete and displace the local species or worse yet, if it would hybridize and potentially reduce the fitness of offspring. It's the whole "invasive species" issue.

Rick

[stonyloam]

Oh OK! Invasive species can be a real problem. We have zebra mussels, spiny water fleas and round gobies infesting our waters (most came in ballast water from foreign ships coming into the great lakes):(. We also have a problem with wood beetles from Asia (from wooden packing crates) and are not allowed to transport firewood out of some parts of the state. We even had an outbreak of chronic wasting disease in deer (now under control) that came in on taxidermy materials from out west. We are lucky compared to some states like Florida (snakes, iguanas, fish birds etc.). Besides I would not want to disrupt my little genetic pool of stripeless, green, brown, blue, maybe maritime garters.:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

From the area it was found in, it's probably an eastern, t sirtalis sirtalis, possibly a red sided, t sirtalis parietalis, as they are found in missouri also. I have known red siders from Kansas to be lacking in red coloration......