Mice Recall Phone Call

[guidofatherof5]

Nationwide recall of reptile food (http://www.examiner.com/x-54642-Hartford-Pets-Examiner~y2010m7d28-Nationwide-recall-of-reptile-food)

I received a phone call from a NY Times reported tonight. He advised me of a frozen mice recall from Micedirect.com . I spoke to him for about 30 minutes. He asked a lot of question about keeping snakes. I made sure he understood these were no ordinary snakes, these were Garter Snakes.
He said he may have a photographer get in contact with me. They would like a photo of someone feeding these frozen/thawed mice to a snake.
The guy was very professional.
He got my name off the Micedirect website since I left a comment about their product.

[Mommy2many]

Cool! Another celebrity amongst us!

[Hollis_Steed]

Nationwide recall of reptile food (http://www.examiner.com/x-54642-Hartford-Pets-Examiner~y2010m7d28-Nationwide-recall-of-reptile-food)

I received a phone call from a NY Times reported tonight. He advised me of a frozen mice recall from Micedirect.com . I spoke to him for about 30 minutes. He asked a lot of question about keeping snakes. I made sure he understood these were no ordinary snakes, these were Garter Snakes.
He said he may have a photographer get in contact with me. They would like a photo of someone feeding these frozen/thawed mice to a snake.
The guy was very professional.
He got my name off the Micedirect website since I left a comment about their product.

Steve,
Stay Well!:)

[ConcinusMan]

Just make sure this guy is legit. You never know what some people may be up to.;)

[guidofatherof5]

Ny Times photographer is due here any moment.

[Stefan-A]

Just don't give them anything that they can use against us. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, no kidding. That would be awful.

[guidofatherof5]

Just don't give them anything that they can use against us. :D



:confused::D

[ConcinusMan]

You never know if they are going to write a negative article about garter snake keepers or in Steve's case "hoarders" LoL.

Just bombard him with all your endearing stories and show him how smart and sweet they can be. That's something that the average person just doesn't realize.;)

[mustang]

if they give us a negative article ill send him a rattler with no return adress and a bit of held in agression

[guidofatherof5]

Received a response to my email to Mice Direct.
I'm satisfied with their handling of the situation.


Hello Steve,

Quick Note: Hey, sorry that you were contacted by ny times. Please read
following statement. Thanks, #####

We apologize for the time is has taken to respond to all of our customers
individually. We are a small company and have been working day and night to
resolve this issue and are trying to keep our doors open for business. Your
support is greatly needed. The outpouring of support that we are receiving
is very much appreciated as we are 100% committed to our customers.

It is important to understand that this type of Salmonella does not transfer
to reptiles. The only harm in having handled this product is to humans and
not reptiles. Good Hygiene effectively mitigates chances of transfering
Salmonella to humans.

In this recall, it is asked that you either return the product in its
original container or destroy the product. We cannot force you to return or
destroy the product. The decision is yours.

As of 7/24/10, we have started irradiating our product which eliminates
bacteria and disease. This process does not change anything about the
rodent, except killing contaminates. We are not aware of anyone else using
this method. Please advise us as to your decision and we will accommodate
you. We are attaching the statement that we have on our website for you.

Please forgive this form type email, as we are receiving many emails and are
trying to accommodate all the requests we have. We very much want to
continue to earn your business and trust by provided you healthy food for
your animals. Your support during this very difficult time is most
appreciated.

Best Regards,

############

MiceDirect

[guidofatherof5]

Well, the article is out in the Times. The snake pictured is one on my T.s.parietalis(Red Sided Garter snake)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/business/global/30mice.html?_r=1&hp

[MasSalvaje]

Interesting Steve. There seem to be some contridictions between the email you recieved from MiceDirect and the article. I am curious to see how this affects MiceDirect directly and the reptile industry as a whole.

Very good pics by the way.

-Thomas

[Jeff B]

I wouldn't say this is exactly "good press" nor good attention for the hobby. Most of the public is going to look very negatively at this and towards snake and reptile keepers and think that we are filthy, with disease infested freezers and homes, and that we are the cause of the spread of salmonella, as if they didn't already, this is just fuel to the fire.
I received the same email from Mice Direct after I emailed them yesterday seeing the release. I'm not to worried about it, in fact I would be even more likely to buy, in fact I may start buying exclusively from Mice Direct now that they will be irradiating everything, doesn't get any safer than that, in fact that is probably overkill, but I'm sure they are forced at this point to take a "better safe than sorry" stance.

[drache]

oops
couldn't find this thread for some reason, and started a new one with the Times article

[Selkielass]

Handling recalls is a tricky business. I used to work for a major retailer, in the quality assurance department, and the line between sufficiently warning people of possible dangers and inciting fear and inviting a lawsuit is a fine one indeed.

I'm *very* impressed that they are going to be irradiating future shipments- If I were going thru enough mice to make a bulk order worthwhile I'd choose their product over non-irradiated rodents.

[MasSalvaje]

I wouldn't say this is exactly "good press" nor good attention for the hobby. Most of the public is going to look very negatively at this and towards snake and reptile keepers and think that we are filthy, with disease infested freezers and homes, and that we are the cause of the spread of salmonella, as if they didn't already, this is just fuel to the fire.
I received the same email from Mice Direct after I emailed them yesterday seeing the release. I'm not to worried about it, in fact I would be even more likely to buy, in fact I may start buying exclusively from Mice Direct now that they will be irradiating everything, doesn't get any safer than that, in fact that is probably overkill, but I'm sure they are forced at this point to take a "better safe than sorry" stance.

Well said.

-Thomas

[Kevinh583]

Does anybody else have any reservations about feeding their pets irradiated food? I would be especially hesitant if irradiated pinkies would make up most of the snake's diet. From what I understand the irradiation process affects the food much like the cooking process would breaking down certain vitamins, amino acids and destroying enzymes. Of course it would be hard to know to what extent this would affect the snake without some kind of a study being done and of course there are some obvious benefits to irradiated food.

Also, in addition to the possible nutritional issues haven't irradiated foods caused problems in certain animals, for example cats. It sounds to me like Mice Direct would be the first company to sell irradiated mice, it would be horrible if a few years from now we would have a bunch of unhealthy snakes. I realize pet diets can be a controversial subject and don't want to start a big debate, just wondering if anybody else shares these concerns.

I should add as a disclaimer that I am the type of person who pays twice as much for organic food and avoids any GM or processed food as much as possible. So it is only natural that this philosophy would carry over to the diet of any animals under my care. I admit some of my concerns may be a little irrational or overblown at times.

[Hollis_Steed]

Kevin,
I feel the same way. In fact I would be more comfortable feeding wild caught mice than irradiated. But of course to each his own.

[ConcinusMan]

Well Kevin it has been proven that snakes get more energy from, and digest easier, food that has been cooked. However, the level and type of radiation, and duration of irradiation, does not affect the food at all. It simply damages the DNA of microorganisms, affectively killing it or at least preventing it from reproducing. And Hollis, one would be very foolish, or least misguided to believe that wild mice would be better than irradiated mice from this company. Wild mice are almost always infested with internal parasites.

I wouldn't even send the recalled mice back, or destroy them. I just wouldn't handle them and I'd bleach surfaces, tongs, etc. after contact. That is all that is needed. Wearing neoprene gloves when feeding isn't a bad idea either.

[Hollis_Steed]

Well Kevin it has been proven that snakes get more energy from, and digest easier, food that has been cooked. However, the level and type of radiation, and duration of irradiation, does not affect the food at all. It simply damages the DNA of microorganisms, affectively killing it or at least preventing it from reproducing. One would be very foolish, or least misguided to believe that wild mice would be better than irradiated mice from this company. Wild mice are almost always infested with internal parasites.
Richard,
I'll assume that you are calling me misled rather than foolish...

[ConcinusMan]

I edited and changed the word to "misguided" but yeah. Bubblegum or little smokies would be better for them than wild mice.:rolleyes: OK, maybe not but you get the point.

[mustang]

well it dosnt do the hobby any good (as previously stated) but most people dont get it that you can get selmonelia from dogs cats and birds too! its not just a reptile and mice thing!

[ConcinusMan]

that stuff lives everywhere. If you swabbed your kitchen sink drain right now, even if you think it's clean, and tested it, there would be loads of it. The funny thing about this recall is that a person is really not likely to get sick from this unless he eats the mice himself. The bacteria itself isn't what causes illness. It's the toxins they produce by consuming their food. If, and only if, a person swallows that food, and there are significant numbers of the bacteria's waste products in it, he will become ill. It's the waste product from salmonella that irritates your digestive system and makes you ill. Bacteria poop, if you will.

But you're right, the reptile industry gets too much negative press when it comes to this.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, and dogs, reptiles, etc. have a special protective layer in their digestive system. That is why they are not affected. That is why they can eat carrion and not get ill.

[BUSHSNAKE]

plus the good bacterias that help too

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, the "good" bacteria you speak of, actually help you to digest your food, and they also feed on harmful viruses. If you were to kill all the microorganisms present in your digestive system, you would be in big trouble. You need them as much as they need you.

[Kevinh583]

I won't get into the raw vs cooked because I think there are benefits and drawbacks to both. However, I would disagree about the irradiation process not changing the food at all. Everything I've read indicates that some vitamins and nutrients are reduced. Also enzymes and beneficial bacteria are destroyed during the process. These deficiencies could of course be reversed by supplementing the animals diet and would really only be a major problem if irradiated food was the only food provided.

One problem that can't be counteracted occurs at the molecular level. Free radicals (atoms which have lost an electron because of the radiation energy) produced as a result of the irradiation process can cause an increase in carcinogenesis and mutagenesis. Free radicals are implicated in a myriad of diseases including arthiritis, kidney disease, and cardiovascular disease and cancer. These problems affect certain foods differently and would need to be tested in each case to determine the amount of damage. Also, it seems certain animals are more sensitive. Cats for example have had serious health problems when consuming irradated food resulting in huge recals and even being banned in certain countries.

So I don't think anybody can say that the process does nothing to the food, it is simply a matter of weighing the risks vs the benefits. It is also a shame that the FDA doesn't do a better job of testing some of these things and pretty much leave it up to the food companies to do the testing. There is a conflict of interest if you leave it up to the companies because irradiated foods are more profitable. But I'll get off my soap box now.

[mustang]

One problem that can't be counteracted occurs at the molecular level. Free radicals (atoms which have lost an electron because of the radiation energy) produced as a result of the irradiation process can cause an increase in carcinogenesis and mutagenesis. Free radicals are implicated in a myriad of diseases including arthiritis, kidney disease, and cardiovascular disease and cancer. These problems affect certain foods differently and would need to be tested in each case to determine the amount of damage. Also, it seems certain animals are more sensitive. Cats for example have had serious health problems when consuming irradated food resulting in huge recals and even being banned in certain countries.



ahhhh chemistry class is haunting me !leave me the hell alone aaaahhhh:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Stefan-A]

Oh, chemistry isn't that bad. When you get down to it, it's really just physics.

[mustang]

:eek::rolleyes::(great im takn phisics ap next year thanks for the support:rolleyes::((extream sarcasm)

[guidofatherof5]

I just got off the phone with one of the owners of Mice Direct. He was confirming an order I had placed earlier in the week.
That's good customer service when the owner take the time to call you.
We had a pleasant conversation about mice and life. Hoping he will come by the Ranch some day to meet my kids and snakes.
I'm glad I am doing business with this company.
https://micedirect.com/

[sschind]

I edited and changed the word to "misguided" but yeah. Bubblegum or little smokies would be better for them than wild mice.:rolleyes: OK, maybe not but you get the point.

No way are my snakes getting any of my little smokies. I'll share may home with them but my little smokies... never.