Meet the gang!

[kibakiba]

In my 3 years of owning Snakey, I can honestly say that he hasn't ever musked me very badly, if at all. Today, I was picking him up so I could feed him on the top of the tank, like I always do... And the only difference from all the other times was I farted. Snakey freaked out and musked everywhere, and he bit me! Haha. I feel bad for him. I guess he thought I had musked on him :D Now he knows what it's like for us when they musk.... ;)

[guidofatherof5]

No that's funny.:D

[kibakiba]

He's hiding with his tail over his head. Awww. My poor little boy. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Musk envy:D

[kibakiba]

"Awww man, how can I make my musk smell like that!? Maybe some more fish will help..." Hehe :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Holy crap that's funny!!!!:eek:

[ConcinusMan]

My dream girl:

1. Her hands/fingers smell like tilapia and garter snake musk, sometimes several times a day between washings.

2. She would gladly accompany me through knee deep water hunting for garter snakes for hours, even if our only harvest is photographs.

3. She doesn't give a damn about the smell.

4. Her snakes come only second to her human family.

5. Oh yeah, it helps if she's good looking.

:p

As I was saying before, I like sunsets, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick!

Any girl that can handle that, fish, chopped up pinkies, and garter snake musk is OK in my book.

[kibakiba]

Haha. Honestly, my snakes come before my family. That is, because I don't really have a family. Well, I don't count my extended family as family, because they all hate me, mostly because of my snakes. My real mom, brother and little sister are the only real family I have. Then, if my boyfriend and I get married, his family is my family. They'd come first I guess. They already treat me like a part of the family, kind of. :D

[kibakiba]

I think Mama is gravid again. She's shed twice during July and is going into shed again. She's fully grown, so she wouldn't technically be going through a growth spurt. She isn't looking too fat, but then again I'm used to her being kind of fat.

[RedSidedSPR]

That would be awesome!... um is it good or bad? :rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

Bad. My mom threatened to throw her out the window if she had anymore babies. She was serious. I haven't told her yet... I think I might wait and play dumb for a bit.

[RedSidedSPR]

what's she care?!:D

Well that sucks i guess... Bad Snakey!:D

[kibakiba]

Snakey hasn't mated with Mama in over 6 months. She's retained his sperm, and she's making the babies herself. More like bad Mama!!!

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh... Well there's nothin' you can do better get your mom to join the dark side.:D

[kibakiba]

Haha. I'll have to wait until she gives birth, then grab a newborn and say "THIS BABY COMMANDS YOU TO JOIN THE DARK SIDE!!!! ... We have milk and cookies... :D"


She can't say no to a new born offering milk and cookies, right?

[RedSidedSPR]

Not possible. Newborns and cookies. Irresistible.

It's fool proof.

[kibakiba]

Eh, I told her anyways. She's angry, but you cant blame Mama for what her instincts are if she is. Besides, I'm sure someone will want them once they're born (if she is in fact gravid) She's pulled some fake gravidness on me before... Having her constant shedding, fatness and stress happen for a few weeks, then nothing.

[RedSidedSPR]

I find it weird pulling for no babies, but I guess I will.:D

[kibakiba]

Haha. I kind of want them, kind of don't. I love babies, I love how soft, cuddly and sweet they tend to be... But my mom doesn't like spending 3 dollars on worms every month to feed them. :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Holy crap $3. Lordy, no wonder she doesn't like them... that's awful.

[katach]

Well I have to agree with you and the cute and cuudly, sweet thing. They are very!

[kibakiba]

I know, they eat us out of house and home!

I like giving my babies pinkies, because that's what they like the most... But, cant afford that with over 12 snakes.

[Venti]

Holy crap $3. Lordy, no wonder she doesn't like them... that's awful.

Is three dollars a bad deal for a dozen night crawlers? That is what my local reptile store and Walmart sells them for.

[guidofatherof5]

Our local Walmart super center sells them for $2.96 and you get 20 worms.

[RedSidedSPR]

It was a joke. Sarcasm. I can't help it.

Mines the same price as Steves.

[kibakiba]

3 dollars is a GREAT deal, but my mom doesn't like buying 2-3 containers a month for the snakes.:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Exactly. It's a great deal, so naturally, I say it's horrific. I say it's unbearably cruel. I say it's highweigh robbery, or simply "holy crap, that unreal".
A good thing is a bad thing, no is yes. It makes perfect sense, is completelely logical. (there see I did it again)

Its called: SARCASM :D

That's how I am sometimes (ok most times). Sometimes I neglet a smiley... Get use to it :D
(sorry just wanted to clear that up :D)

Anyway, mines $2.90 or so, and I buy a few all at once, an with my 4 snake, it usually lasts me a month. A little fillet, some silversides, they last me longer. So really I don't have to spend too much on food. Although I'm sure it will cost more when the babies grow up..... yikes.

[Venti]

Okay, sorry then.

Anyway, my babies go though a dozen worms in one week, I feed them every other day. It's pretty crazy, I'll be glad when fall is offically here and I can gather more worms. Yum.

[kibakiba]

I mix a little fillet in with their food. Everyone gets one head sized chunk of fish, and some worms. Sometimes a pinky or pinky parts. I was feeding a mostly pinky diet, but it's gotten too expensive, for now.

[RedSidedSPR]

I feed almost everyday. But little meals, and little chunks. I think they grow faster that way.


Okay, sorry then..

No. Nopedy nopedy no. That came across wrong. Again. dont be sorry. Seriously didn't mean it like that.

[Venti]

No offense taken, I just have a bad habit of apologizing for everything. Everything.

I usually feed the babies small meals more often, and just toss in a biggish prey item for Theif every three to four days.

[kibakiba]

I feed every few days. But, my opinion is mine.

[RedSidedSPR]

That's fine too, didn't mean that.

[kibakiba]

I know, but people argue with me too much about what I think is the healthiest for my snakes. So, I don't feel comfortable voicing my opinion on feeding lengths anymore. :rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

Ember has been getting twitchy any time he sees his reflection... Is that normal? I've never seen a snake do that before. My office if filled with mirrors and doubles as a room for dancing, so the mirrors help with that... But, any time Ember sees himself in the mirror he starts slithering back and forth twitching his head. He stops doing it if I go near him, so I'm having a hard time getting him on video while he's doing it... It just seemed a bit weird.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ive never seen that... not normal, but I don't know if its bad...

[katach]

Willow kinda got skittish and spooked when she saw her reflection for the first time.

[kibakiba]

He's been in the same area for about 6 months, he's never done it before. Snakey stares at himself in the mirror with his head cocked to the side. :D

[kibakiba]

Runt is coming to trust me more. her partial blindness prevented her from getting too used to me, because she couldn't figure out what my hand was. She's starting to become more calm as she gets older. She's still bumping her nose against my hand and having trouble seeing where she's going, but she is letting me touch her without her flinching.

[kibakiba]

Mama has been acting a little weird. Trying to get out for hours at a time. When I let her out about an hour ago she stopped moving and hasn't been breathing much, not reacting to touch... There is just something in her eyes that says something is wrong. You know, its kind of like people then they say or act like their fine, but there's just something that's telling you they aren't okay. She just feels weak. Its hard to explain what's going on, but it scares me a bit...

[kibakiba]

I forgot to say that she was twitching slightly, as if something poked her, while being limp.
She perked up enough to take a worm from my fingers while resting in my shirt. It was kind of nice to lay down and rest with her even though it's saddening to see her like this. She rolled upside down and laid limp for a little bit, long enough to scare me into thinking she had died. I'm scared to sleep because she's just acting so weird.

[guidofatherof5]

That's a hard one to say. Hope things have improved later this morning.
Please keep us posted.

[kibakiba]

She's been laying with her head on the water dish side, looked up at me when I was looking at her, so at least she's still okay. It looks like Pumpkin is bugging her, haha... She's been trying to "dig" on Mama. It's kind of cute.


Mama and Azul just greeted me when I put my hand in the tank, Mama slithered up to me extremely slowly. Knowing she's moving around, even if it's just a little is comforting.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the update. Hope she continues to improve.

[kibakiba]

I do too. I'd hate for my best friend to be ailing. I'll go to bed and see how she's going when I get up. Hopefully the worm she ate has given her some energy and she'll be bright eyed and scaly tailed when I check on her!

[RedSidedSPR]

Hope she's OK!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Is it possible that it could be vitamin b or old age. I hope she is ok.

[kibakiba]

I do too. There's nothing to do but think positively about this whole situation.

[d_virginiana]

How old is she?
Hopefully she'll improve.. At least she doesn't sound really sick, just sort of lethargic. Keep us updated.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Awwww I too hope that Mama will improve soon. Thats sad when an animal is sick. Get well soon Mama.

[dieselbaby]

Im sorry your snakey isnt feeling well. Hope she is back to her old self in no time.

[kibakiba]

Mama's around 4 years old. She was wild caught, but based on the sizes of my snakes and their ages, 4-5 seems like the closest. She still had a bit of growing in her when I got her.

[katach]

How is Mama doing? I hope she gets well fast for you!

[kibakiba]

Still lethargic. She's been doing a lot of sleeping. She ate another worm for me today, too.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I sure hope that she gets better soon. you said she ate a worm for you but has she been drinking also? just wondering .

[kibakiba]

Yes, her head was in the water dish for quite some time. I always make sure all of my snakes are drinking. If I suspect that they aren't, I pick them up and put their heads in the water dish, if they start drinking, then they likely haven't drank anything for a while, imo.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

well its good shes drinking but I hope she gets better soon. Are you gonna take her to a vet? and how long has she been acting like this.

[kibakiba]

Vets in WA don't treat garter snakes. If they did, I'd happily take a loan out and possibly ruin my credit just for her. Mama is my everything and losing her unexpectedly would leave me empty. I'd give anything of mine just to know if she was sick, so at least I would be able to prepare for a loss.
She's been acting "weird" for about 2 weeks, I'm thinking there's a heat(heat as in mating heat) thing going on, because she got more frantic when I was holding Snakey close to her tank, she was trying to get to her, or it seemed like it anyways.
She's been lethargic since I first posted about it about 2 days ago.

[guidofatherof5]

Still eating is a very good sign.

[kibakiba]

Indeed it is. The first two worms took a little bit of trying, but she took them.

[ConcinusMan]

Wait a sec. She's not like the vegetarian shark on Sharktale is she? are you sure she didn't just hide them and let them go free when you weren't looking? :p

[kibakiba]

She better not have. Only way to get the worms elsewhere is in the tank, where runt would likely think they are for her.

[katach]

How is Mama doing Chantel?

[kibakiba]

She is going into shed, I believe. She has a really light green sheen on her belly, kind of like when they go blue on their belly. She's never done that(the green) but her eyes are very, very slightly cloudy.

[katach]

Well hopefully she will back to herself after shed.

[kibakiba]

I hope so. I still cant explain why she was twitching when she was sleeping. That was really weird.

[katach]

Maybe she was chasing really big pinkies in her sleep. :)

[kibakiba]

I hope that was it, hah. She's such a good snake.

4th time shedding in 2 months.

[katach]

Wow! That means you are doing a good job!

[kibakiba]

She might be gravid again, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[katach]

Well that should keep you pretty busy if she is.

[kibakiba]

Indeed. She chose a bad time to do it too, if she is. I promised my mom I'd let the babies go, but since it's already September, I cant see myself doing it. The weather is too iffy and I'd like to see them next year when I'm over my agoraphobia ;) If she does, it'll be a spring time release. It's hard enough feeding these 5 little monsters.

I also would like to see it happen, it'd be so cool.

[kibakiba]

You know a snake is comfortable around you when she sits in your bra for an hour getting a neck massage... :D

[kibakiba]

She's sitting on my leg getting another back massage, she's one calm, happy little snake.

[kibakiba]

Mama had some real trouble getting her shed off. I had to help her, and she didn't like it. after everything is off, she'ss beautiful and very angry. She doesn't want anything to do with me now. Poor Mama.

[guidofatherof5]

She'll get over it............ but not forget it.:D

[kibakiba]

Oh thanks! I was just trying to help her!! :p

[katach]

Glad you were there for her!

[kibakiba]

I'm glad she didn't go through with the bite she had planned! She had her mouth open and bumped it against my hand.

[katach]

See she knows you are helping her. :)

[kibakiba]

Yeah, she doesn't have to enjoy it, though ;) She didn't seem to enjoy me picking her up, either. Hopefully I'll have the old Mama back in a couple days.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Im glad u were there to help. I just had to help a baby also with a shed. Its hard to do sometimes when the wont stop moving around. But hey sometimes u gotta do what u gotta do , right.
I too hope she gets back to normal. Good luck sent ur way from Michigan. Say hello to pretty Mama for me.

[kibakiba]

Mama appreciates the compliment ;).
She's still a bit lethargic, but she was really struggling with her shed, so she's likely tired from that.

[kibakiba]

Snakey is getting old and he's starting to show it. He's calmed down a lot since Mama gave birth, he's slowing down in some ways, too. I don't mean in a brumation way, just in general. He spends his days wrapped in my hand with his tail around my pinky.

[PINJOHN]

[QUOTE=RedSidedSPR;174160]

Its called: SARCASM :D

I think you mean IRONY

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah...

[kibakiba]

Ember and Snap both shed today.... I was trying to get a picture of Ember when he so lovingly musked all over my hand, arm and shirt... His musk smells like dirty lady parts. Yuck.

[guidofatherof5]

His musk smells like dirty lady parts. Yuck.

A little too much information. :D

[kibakiba]

Well that's the only way to describe it. Rotten fish isn't good enough, it's worse than that. Lol.

[katach]

Ewww!!!! :D

[EasternGirl]

Seriously Chantel ewww....lol... Look I haven't seen pics of your snakes in forever...put some pics up!!!

[kibakiba]

I've got to finish getting all the pictures off of my camera so I can take some new ones! I have a lot of video that's taking up most of my space... Once that's all on my external, I can take some new pictures of my babies :D

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I'll be waiting...I want to see pics of all of your snakes!!! All of them!!!

[kibakiba]

That might take a while ;) Mama, Pumpkin and Thumbelina are easy to get pictures of, the rest... Well they don't like the camera much! Snakey is off with Kat right now, too so his picture will have to wait til he comes home.

[EasternGirl]

Well...why don't you put up some of the most recent pics you have? I was looking through this thread and it doesn't look like you've put pics up in a while...I wanna see pics!:)

[kibakiba]

I'll have to get pics some other time. Life is stressful this winter.


Ember had a bit of trouble going #2 tonight... He looked a bit prolapsed with some hard poo stuck to him. Poor guy. I noticed him doing some sort of death roll around the tank, and my first thought was him and Snap are together... But she was nowhere to be seen. I had to use a q-tip to clean him up and get all the blood and poop off of him. After he was done death rolling in my hand and all nice and clean (about as clean as a prolapsed area could be) he got a soak in some warm water for a while. He's doing fine now, but I think I'm going to be monitoring him for a couple weeks.

[EasternGirl]

What is a death roll? I ended up looking at your gallery pics at pics of your snakes recently :). Post new pics when you can. Keep us posted on Ember please!

[Bart]

What is a death roll? I ended up looking at your gallery pics at pics of your snakes recently :). Post new pics when you can. Keep us posted on Ember please!

Reptiles do it by rolling onto their backs. Crocs are known for deathrolling, so are cobras. It's called like that, because a venomous snake can turn itself in that way and bite a person that's holding it.

[RedSidedSPR]

Basically, it's um... rolling..:p

[kibakiba]

Little Ember is a bit slow today, I wouldn't be surprised if he is tired as heck from that little ordeal. He's usually lounging by the lamp, but today he's slowly exploring the tank.

[EasternGirl]

Poor Ember!

[guidofatherof5]

I hope Ember will be okay.
Please keep us posted on the situation.

[RedSidedSPR]

Hope Ember's OK!

[kibakiba]

He had a bit of a hard time pooping today, but there's no sign of the blockage. He got most of it out the other day. He'll be getting a nice long soak in the bathtub later on today. Hopefully it'll help him get it all out.

[EasternGirl]

Let us know how he is doing later today!

[kibakiba]

It happened again, only more bloody. I don't really know what I can do for him. I can't give him an enema in hopes that it'll help break it up, the only sort of syringe I have is one that's used for my current medication. I can try a longer bath, but touching near where that lump is causes him so much pain that he opens his mouth with hanging out for a couple seconds. Poor guy...

[EasternGirl]

Oh Chantel...I'm so sorry...I would Skype Steve and talk to him about it...he has experience with these sorts of things. I wish I could help but I don't know anything about how to help with these things.

[kibakiba]

I don't want to bother anyone on Christmas. I'm going to stick him in the bathtub and see if I can get him to at least try to go while he's in there. I had him soaking in a gallon bucket while we were watching a movie, but he didn't like that all too much. He kept trying to cling to my hand.

[EasternGirl]

Poor little thing. If Steve is online...he won't mind at all. He really would be the one to ask. Maybe post an urgent care thread too....you might get some advice from other members online that can help.

[chris-uk]

How high is the lump? Is the lump moving at all? If it's not too high some gentle downward manipulation (despite the discomfort) would be beneficial, if it's painful when you touch it it's almost certainly causing discomfort. If it doesn't move at all I wouldn't push try too hard, and as Marnie said I'd be trying to catch Steve on Skype (or John or someone we speak to who has kept garters for longer than us).
If you can't attempt an enema the warm baths and gentle manipulation are the best option, and I think if you manipulate the lump in the warm water it should soothe some of, the discomfort.

[kibakiba]

It's all the way down at his cloaca.There isn't anything more to manipulate, he won't even eat a worm for me. I figure a watery food should kind of help in some sense, but at the same time I don't want to add to his discomfort. If he could hold out until the 3rd of jan. I could buy a syringe for the enema, but I go ahead and talk to Steve about it when I'm done waking up and checking on everyone.

[chris-uk]

You mentioned that there's a lump at the cloacha, is it as big as the one Steve's just had? Or more subtle?
Keep up the warm baths for now, and I bet Steve will have some good advice for you.

[kibakiba]

It's barely noticeable. I only noticed it because of him doing the death roll, so when I picked him up and looked closely, it was there. That's how I figured it was impaction, not anything else. Well, and the fact he was trying to poo but couldn't.

[kibakiba]

Ember got a little bit of the blockage out, it was a small piece of carefresh. There's still a small amount stuck, but he's been trying to poop quite a bit. I'm hoping that with the syringe Steve is sending me, I can help ease his pain a bit. Even if he doesn't make it, I want to make sure that he's as comfortable as I can make him. I love my little fishy faced Ember.

[guidofatherof5]

Good to hear some of it's out.

[EasternGirl]

Poor little Ember...it makes you wonder what can we do to prevent these blockages? I thought carefresh was surely a safe bet...I'm wondering if I should start feeding my snakes on plain paper towels in a separate feeding tank with no substrate. We all try so hard but so many of them seem to get blockages by ingesting substrate of one kind or another. I really hope that Ember makes it...I'm thinking of you Chantel.

[kibakiba]

Well, one thing Steve and I were talking about was how nothing is safe for them to ingest, and I do agree with that. No matter how "safe" it is for snakes there can always be the one thing that can cause it. Embers on paper towels for the next few weeks, I need to keep an eye out for his poop. I'm hoping that even if I can't do anything for him right now, he may be able to do it himself.

I'm going to give him a really small piece of salmon that I have for scenting, I don't know if it'll help or make it worse but since it's going to be a small piece it can't hurt to try...

[chris-uk]

With a bit of luck getting one small piece out will help him move the rest a bit at a time. Still giving warm baths?

[kibakiba]

Yes. Warm baths don't do anything other than make him jump when the water touches him. He doesn't like water at all, I've already made sure the water wasn't too warm or cold, so it's not that.... He's not to graceful in the water, either... He's kind of like a fish flopping around in it. Haha.

He tried pooping again just a few minutes ago... Not a very successful attempt. He prolapsed some more and started bleeding a little bit. I feel extremely bad having to make him go through all this.

[EasternGirl]

Yes...poor thing...but you are trying your best to help. I know that when Steve was trying to get his Snake to pass an obstruction, he feed the snake worm to try to get things moving...said it was gentle and easily digestible. Have you spoken to him via Skype?

[kibakiba]

Yes. He's going to send a syringe, and had me put Ember on paper towels so I can see if he gets any more out.

[EasternGirl]

Good to hear...how is Ember doing?

[kibakiba]

He's hiding under the paper towel. He hasn't done much of anything to day. I might pick him up and hold hm for a while to make sure he's okay. He moves around quite a bit, so if he isn't as energetic I'll at least know something is wrong.

[kibakiba]

He's gotten a bit worse. He's really trying to poop now, he's had 4 attempts in the past hour and each time he just prolapses and goes into the death rolls. He did get some bloody urates out a couple times... But it's really not going very well. I don't know whether to pick him up when he goes into the death rolls and run warm water over the prolapse (it helps it to go back in) or leave him alone completely and just let him do his thing. I feel so bad for him...

[Selkielass]

Poor guy, I hope he comes thru ok.

[guidofatherof5]

He's gotten a bit worse. He's really trying to poop now, he's had 4 attempts in the past hour and each time he just prolapses and goes into the death rolls. He did get some bloody urates out a couple times... But it's really not going very well. I don't know whether to pick him up when he goes into the death rolls and run warm water over the prolapse (it helps it to go back in) or leave him alone completely and just let him do his thing. I feel so bad for him...

I think I'd just leave him alone during those times. Don't want to add any more stress to him.
Just my opinion.

[EasternGirl]

Oh poor Ember...I wish there was something I could do to help.

[ConcinusMan]

I'll have to get pics some other time. Life is stressful this winter.


Ember had a bit of trouble going #2 tonight... He looked a bit prolapsed with some hard poo stuck to him. Poor guy. I noticed him doing some sort of death roll around the tank,

Uh oh. That doesn't sound good. And just FYI, the "death roll" is usually a response to severe pain.:(

Sounds like an impaction. Possibly something causing a blockage / injury in there.

[EasternGirl]

How is Ember? Did he pass anymore of the obstruction?

[kibakiba]

I know the death roll is because of the pain. He doesn't do it at any other time, except when he's trying to poop.

He passes urates sometimes, but nothing else and he's still prolapsed. He ate a little bite of fish. I can't really tell if he'll be able to actually poop, because he hasn't eaten in about 3 weeks.

[EasternGirl]

I think it is a good sign that he is eating...if he was in horrible pain or terribly impacted, I don't think he would eat. I'm just guessing though...I'm just thinking of how I would feel...

[kibakiba]

He seems to be more comfortable when I'm holding him. He didn't eat when he was in the tank, but when I was holding him he tried eating my fingers, so I let him eat the fish. He also calms right down when I pick him up

[EasternGirl]

Poor little fella...

[kibakiba]

The syringe came today. I went ahead and gave him an enema. This is what came out, the blockage is still there for now, but he wont stay still now, so I'm giving him a break.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9683/sdc14207b.jpg

[kimbosaur]

Good luck! Hope he starts feeling better soon.

[EasternGirl]

That looks like mucus...I'm guessing some sort of infection or something but I have no idea...Steve said he would be on Skype tonight...I would send him a pic of that and ask him. Maybe it isn't a blockage though.

[kibakiba]

It is a blockage. Things like that can cause an infection after a while.

Also, does anyone want to help me explain to my mom that squirting a little tiny bit of water in ember isn't going to kill him? She was yelling at me saying that I was murdering my snake. He's no worse than he was earlier, maybe a little angry at me, but he's not dead.

[EasternGirl]

To Chantel's mom...Chantel is trying to help Ember...members on the forum who have experience treating these types of intestinal blockages in snakes told Chantel how to treat him and sent her the syringe. What she is doing should not make him any worse at this point...we are just trying to help him.

[guidofatherof5]

The syringe came today. I went ahead and gave him an enema. This is what came out, the blockage is still there for now, but he wont stay still now, so I'm giving him a break.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9683/sdc14207b.jpg

Doesn't look like anything that could cause a blockage.

[kibakiba]

It's still there, that was all that came out. I'm going to have another go at it. It's hard to control him and the syringe at the same time, so it stresses both of us out at the same time.

[kibakiba]

He still has a slight bulge near his cloaca, but he's pooping pretty normally, with a very minor prolapse now. I haven't seen him death roll today, and he had no problem showing his anger when I was checking around his cloaca... He dropped a nice heaping pile of urates all over my hand and a napkin.

[guidofatherof5]

No bad news is good news.
Thanks for the update. A little bird and I were wondering how things were going. :D

[kibakiba]

I'm not going to get my hopes up, but I am happy that he's doing okay, at least for now.

[EasternGirl]

Tweet tweet...little bird here...yes, I was kind of worried that you hadn't been on in a little while...I though maybe something had happened to Ember...so I am very happy to hear that he is doing a little better. Maybe the enemas flushed something through a little bit. Keep us updated...I get worried about him and you too.

[kibakiba]

It's the beginning of the month, so we're doing our shopping and I have a lot of medical appts this month, so I won't be on very much. I'm also out of my meds until the 10th, I believe.

Since he is still prolapsing, I'm guessing that there is still quite a bit blocking in there, but there is enough room to let at least something through. The bulge near his tail is almost gone.

[EasternGirl]

Well just try to keep us updated on his condition as much as you can. Hope all goes well with you until you can get your meds. Wishing you and the snakies the best.

[ConcinusMan]

Looks like mucous. A typical body response to an intestinal injury, irritant, or infection.

Urates is good, so is the lack of "death roll" (once again I think that's a pain response). What would be good to see is a nice solid turd and good feeding response. I hope Ember pulls through.:(

[kibakiba]

He hasn't had an actual solid poop, but I haven't been feeding him all that much because I was worried it'd add to the blockage. Do you think it's worth feeding him part of a pinky or chicken heart, so it's not a watery piece of poop, or maybe give hm more fish? He won't take earth worms or night crawlers no matter how much you scent them... I just don't want to risk adding to the blockage and his pain if I don't have to.

[chris-uk]

How long since he last ate and pooed?

My action plan would be to wait until the swelling has gone completely before feeding. Then I'd go with small cut pieces of fish, not chicken hearts because the fish is easier digested.

There shouldn't be an urgent need to feed him is there? He's large enough to go a month or two without eating isn't he? In which case, patience and let him heal fully before stressing the injured bowel.

[kibakiba]

He ate salmon a few days ago, but his last actual meal was about 3 weeks ago. He's getting a little slim, but not enough that I'm seriously worried about him going without food for about 3 more weeks. He was a porker when he was eating.

But, part of me wants to know if he can poop on his own, because he's not bleeding anymore and the prolapse isn't as big... I wouldn't be able to tell if he can poop unless he ate something. The salmon I give him is red, and dyes his poop a reddish colour... So, I can't tell if he's bleeding or giving me a normal fishy poop.

[EasternGirl]

What about trying some little pieces of tilapia...it's not red is it?

[kibakiba]

We have no money to buy fish, between getting money for my bus passes, shipping for late presents and getting my ID, we have nothing but salmon, chicken heart and pinky.

[EasternGirl]

Well I tend to agree with Chris that maybe you should give it a while before feeding him...I definitely wouldn't feed him the chicken heart or pinky. If you really want to see if he can poop and you don't want to wait...give him a tiny piece of salmon.

[chris-uk]

He may be getting better, but that doesn't mean the problem has healed completely. As you can happily go another few weeks without worrying about him not having eaten I would leave it at least another week and then reassess.
Although salmon leads to ping poo I think you should still be able to tell the difference between a normal salmon poo and pooed with blood in it - bloody poo should be a darker, rusty red. So I would still go with the first meal being salmon and cut it into smaller than normal pieces to make it easier to digest.

[PINJOHN]

He may be getting better, but that doesn't mean the problem has healed completely. As you can happily go another few weeks without worrying about him not having eaten I would leave it at least another week and then reassess.
Although salmon leads to ping poo I think you should still be able to tell the difference between a normal salmon poo and pooed with blood in it - bloody poo should be a darker, rusty red. So I would still go with the first meal being salmon and cut it into smaller than normal pieces to make it easier to digest.
i wait until my wife is not looking and sort of borrow her ....POTATO MASHER I THINK IT IS .....and pulp the salmon for the young ones, it sounds like this might be the way to go Chantel

[kibakiba]

Well, since he's mostly releasing urates (sometimes mixed with bits of the blockage, little pieces of poop and carefresh) it's a pinkish colour. There isn't a lot of blood, but when I'm watching him you can tell that he's bleeding, and it's tinting the urates pink. It's the same with his salmon poop. Both are a pinky-red and weird looking poop.

I can chop salmon into a little mush, I'm really good a cutting things up enough that it looks like mashed potatoes... if it were red, brown and whatever other colour their food is. Haha.

Perhaps I can "pulp" the salmon and add a minced pinky leg in it, making it just slightly more solid than regular salmon and just making it a little bit less pink. I don't know if it'd work, but let me know what you guys think.




Also, he's doing the death rolls again, with the full on prolapse. I gave him another little enema, but not too much water went in because he kept squirming, so I didn't want to risk hurting him. He keeps staring at me with his pitiful little eyes while I'm trying to do it and it makes it super hard to do...

[chris-uk]

Also, he's doing the death rolls again, with the full on prolapse. I gave him another little enema, but not too much water went in because he kept squirming, so I didn't want to risk hurting him.

Definitely hold off feeding for a while longer then. You want the blockage cleared and damage healed before stressing his digestive tract with anything.


He keeps staring at me with his pitiful little eyes while I'm trying to do it and it makes it super hard to do...
Bethan does that when I'm helping her with a bad shed, it's tough. Bethan has the nicest face and biggest eyes of all our snakes which makes it even worse.

[kibakiba]

Embers got a cute innocent face with big eyes. He's got a bigger, more open hole for his tongue, too.... It gives him a "fishy" face. It's just too darn cute. It could also be that he's a male... Him and Snakey have the biggest, cutest eyes of all my snakes. The boys always do. ;) Evil little begging machines.

[EasternGirl]

I'm no expert at all of this by any means...but I'm thinking that if he got a little better after the enemas then that must have been doing something for him. Also, I agree with Chris...if he is doing the death rolls again and displaying full on prolapse...I would definitely hold off on feeding him anything. Maybe try to give him another enema again after he gets some rest, since it seemed to help before. If he does poop at all...or pass any urates with the blood and stuff like you described, try to get a pic and post it for us so we can see exactly what you are describing.

[kibakiba]

The newer baby, who didn't exactly have a name, is dying. She's got the same thing going on as Speckles did. It's an odd coincidence that all of the babies that were born with a slightly lightblue/green tint were all frail. She looked just like Speckles.

She's really weak, skin is folded and barely moves. She's got a lot more life in her than Speckles did when I found her. I want to believe that if I can get her to eat something, anything, that she'll survive... But I'm pretty sure she's too far gone. I'm pretty upset that it's happened twice in a few months. Also, Runt may have escaped. I had the lid off when I was tending to the baby.

[kibakiba]

I got her to drink some water, she's flicking her tongue a little bit.

[EasternGirl]

Oh Chantel..I'm sorry to hear this...so it's a failure to thrive situation? That is rough. At least she has your love for the short life that she has. As far as the Runt situation goes, have you had snakes escape before? I just read something about putting a pile of warm towels on the floor...something about it attracting snakes that have escaped.

[kibakiba]

She's never really eaten much, just 2 tiny pinky pieces since she was born in Nov or Oct. She's flicking her tongue a little bit but she's really not doing well. With Speckles, I'm not sure what really caused her to die. She had a lump near her cloaca which was a tiny piece of carefresh with some poop, but it was small enough that it would be easily passed. She was all deflated looking, much like this baby is right now. She looks less folded and weak now that she's had her fill of water. I'm going to call her Angel for the time that she is alive, she's always been the sweetest little thing. I would really like her to pull through...

I found Runt... She was on my toilet.

[chris-uk]

It's always sad to read about these FTT situations, if she's drinking that's a start so there's still a chance that her feeding response will switch on. From what you described it sounds like she doesn't have an awful lot of time though.

I'm impressed with your toilet training. I've just checked on Lacrimosa and have a steaming pile half on the glass to clean up, if I could train her to slither to the bathroom....

[kibakiba]

She's still hanging on, ever so slightly. I'm tempted to chop up worm and pinky into a liquidy mush and using a syringe to get at least a tiny bit of foood in her... But, I don't want to risk that killing her.

[chris-uk]

I decided, after reading a lot about it, that I won't ever force feed a baby. If the feeding response isn't there, then force feeding seems to be unlikely to help (based on the balance of the reading I did) and with a baby snake there's the risk of damaging the mouth.
My personal decision when I was faced with a FTT was to look after her as long as she wasn't suffering, give her every chance to eat by herself, and to ensure that she didn't suffer by starving herself to death.

[kibakiba]

I'll admit that I probably would, depending on the circumstances. In this case, Angel has eaten, but a very small amount in a long amount of time. I've had to deal with mouth infections of tiny babies before, so I do know how to open the mouth without harming them (though, Angel is literally a ton smaller than the runt from my first litter, Azul). A death of a beloved snake, and another possible death of another, slightly more beloved snake is not how I would like to start my year, and it wouldn't help the fact I'm currently without a constantly working antidepressant for my already quite severe depression. I love all my snakes like my children, and it isn't something one can say "just put them down and deal with it" like my boyfriend did. If there's something I can do that could possibly save one of my snakes lives, I'd be happy to do it. I think Angel deserves a chance at living, she's gone this long. It seems to be longer than most, considering I sort of knew she was doomed from the start. I'm too much of a softy for my own good, I figure most people would have put her down a month ago if they were in my place.

[Jeff B]

I have assist fed many a baby garter that just didn't want to get started and would have surely died, and had them take off and be perfect and grow up to be very healthy and robust adults and breeders even. All they needed was a little help to get started. Basically I just stick a guppy up under the side of there upper lip the point it strait to the back of the throat and usually they will then start swallowing if not I push it in a little farther untill they have to start swallowing. I usually only have to do this once or worst case a few times before they will start feeding on their own. Granted some babies just fail and there is nothing you can do, but it's worth trying in my oppinion. Good luck with Angel

[kibakiba]

Thanks Jeff. I'd try guppies, but Bridges never carries them.... And likes to tell me gold fish are the same thing, and when you even look at the goldfish they are infested with weird white worms. Blech.

[EasternGirl]

I like the name Angel...that is a beautiful name for her, Chantel. I understand what you are saying completely. When I found that snake in my basement around my birthday..Sammy...I only had him for two days...but I cried when he died. I am so oversensitive when it comes to animals...I can't even watch animals die in movies. In general, I'm not much of a softy at all...I never cry and I watch crazy serial killer movies all the time..lol. But when it comes to animals...I just have this compassion that is overwhelming. I think it probably has something to do with our inability to connect with people. But anyway...maybe you could try just a tiny bit of the food mush in a syringe. If she has eaten before and she doesn't have an impaction, a little tiny bit probably wouldn't hurt her....but you be the judge of that. If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't have put her down either...I would be trying to find a way to help her too.

[chris-uk]

I would consider pushing a guppy into a babies mouth, but I think that is different to syringing food into them. "Introducing" a guppy you aren't forcing it down, you still rely on the snake to swallow it. Perhaps a bit of fish with lots of skin still attached? I'd even try goldfish if I couldn't get guppies (although not if they had visible worms), one or two wouldn't hurt and if it got her feeding. I think saying "put her down and deal with it" is incredibly unfair, I'd get slapped if said that to Char.

This situation is a bit different to my baby that never ate, if Angel has eaten in the past she's more like our Bethan than an FTT and I'd cry like a baby if I eventually have to euthanise Bethan if her back problem gets worse.

Don't let your love and compassion cloud the objective question that you need to answer every day - "Are my actions helping this animal, or causing it more suffering?" It's something only you can make the call on, and you've got advice and support around here whatever call you make.

[kibakiba]

No money to buy any new foods, for now. We have a whopping 1 dollar to our name right now. I mashed up worm pinky and fish and added a lot of water, kind of like a little... protien shake? for snakes. Haha. I just put that in a little dish for her. I decided against syringing of any kind.

Also, my boyfriend doesn't exactly have a way with words. He usually says things in a pretty harsh way, without meaning to.

[EasternGirl]

Perhaps he has aspergers.

[kibakiba]

Dunno, I only know he has a big case of adhd, and social anxiety. The only things that have been diagnosed... And I doubt he'll get it checked. He doesn't like psychiatrists.

[kibakiba]

Angel is such a sweet little snake. I was watching some youtube videos, she was sitting on my chest and she coiled up right under my chin and stayed like that for 45 minutes.I was very careful not to move so I wouldn't disturb her. I wish there was something that could guarantee her survival.

[EasternGirl]

Oh I wish there were too. Did she eat any of the mush stuff that you put in the dish for her? Maybe if you tried putting it up to her mouth...you know, not forcing it down with a syringe...but maybe you could get a little into her mouth and see if she swallows it?

[kibakiba]

I don't think so. I know she wont eat with me watching, both times I had her in a container in a dark area. I got it in her mouth, but she's not doing anything with it, just staring at me.

[EasternGirl]

Aww...the poor thing. I don't know what to tell you...just love her and comfort her. I guess it is all you can do at this point. I will be hoping the best for her.

[kibakiba]

She swallowed the rest of the pinky part and is moving around a little bit. Not much to report, other than she lives up to her name. She's the sweetest angel that has ever lived.

[kibakiba]

Moving around quite a bit more. I've been keeping her paper towels slightly damp, she sits in her dish and it's the smallest i could ever find (it's a little bit wider than a bottle cap, but not as high), but even then she has her head submerged and she's still too weak to lift her head out of it, so I only have it in when I can monitor her.

[kibakiba]

And now I wish I had better news, that she recovered fully and is nice and happy... But, alas, I don't. She just died.

[chris-uk]

Sorry Chantel. You did everything you could. I know that doesn't help.

[kibakiba]

I knew she wasn't going to make it, but I wanted to see if she could anyways.

[PINJOHN]

Sorry to hear your news Chantel i know just how you feel, i am still facing a similar situation two broods of checkerds both broods have some young that refuse to feed, they were born in august so they are being kept alive [in my opinion] by the vits in their water, i haven't given up on them but i don't hold out much hope.
i know that you can tell yourself that this is the downside to a passion that gives us much pleasure but it doesn't help much at all,... in fact to utilize the vernacular......it sucks

[kibakiba]

Yeah. I hope your little ones pull through, john.

[EasternGirl]

Oh, Chantel...I am so sorry. I was just catching up on this thread from last night and I saw she had eaten and was moving a bit more and I got excited there for a minute and then read that she passed. It's very depressing even if we did all expect it to be the outcome. I admit I had some hope that she might just pull through. I wish there were something I could say to make this better but I know there isn't. Just know that we are thinking of you and little Angel. Rest in peace, little girl.

[indigoman]

Sorry to read of your loss,we can only try what we can and accept the fact that we did all we could to change the outcome.

[guidofatherof5]

It's a shame the little one passed.
My thoughts are with you Chantel.

[EasternGirl]

I wanted to add that I am so glad that she had your love and caring for her in the end. At least she passed feeling loved and comforted.

[snakehill]

So very sorry!!! :(

[gregmonsta]

Sorry for your loss.

[mikem]

sorry to hear :(

[kibakiba]

In other news, Pumpkin saw snow for the first time. He loved looking around outside and seeing the new white wonder from the warmth of my hand. So cute.

[guidofatherof5]

I stepped outside yesterday with Tank in a blanket.
After feeling that cold air he looked at me like "get me back inside"
He such a funny turtle.

[EasternGirl]

I want snow!!!

[kibakiba]

Ember hasn't improved at all, there always bloody urates all over the tank... He still prolapses and I don't know if he'll get better. I really don;t want to put him down, he's my best friend... When I do the enemas I only do a spurt or 2 of water, I don't want to do too much and end up harming him... But should I do a little bit more than that, or keep going with just a couple quick spurts?


Mama has been giving me jellybeans since Angel was born... She hasn't been eating much eitehr and has been getting really skinny. I keep feeling for more, and cant find any but when I think it's done she pops out a couple more. Is there anything I can do for her, so I don't end up losing anotehr friend?

[EasternGirl]

For Ember...you are probably doing this already...but that one member who recently had a snake with an impaction, took it to the vet and the vet put the snake in a 20 min warm water soak and the impaction passed through. I would just try giving Ember warm soaks everyday if you can. For Mama, I just read something about retained eggs...it says to provide ventral heat...I would try a warm washcloth held on her ventral area. In the book I was reading, they were talking about using a heating pad...but I don't know if you have one. It also says to increase the heat and humidity in the enclosure and to try warm water soaks and enemas if nothing else is working.

[kibakiba]

I've been giving ember a lot of warm baths and enemas... I stopped doing it for a while because he would go into a death roll when I picked him up...

The heat in my room (i moved them to my bed room) is a constant 70, it can't go higher... with the lamps is 75 on the hot side and my rooms humidity is usually 55-60 as far as i can tel. I cant type much right now, but I have tried stuff like that and it's not working in my case.

[EasternGirl]

I figured you had probably been doing the warm baths with Ember...I know you have been doing enemas with him. What about a warm towel on Mama's vent area? Maybe put a warm towel on your lap and get her to lay on you for a while...it might help get the rest of the stuff to pass out of her...maybe...I don't know for sure...but I wouldn't think it would hurt her.

[kibakiba]

I could, but I cant while I've got the flu. I'd be scared of sicking up on her. I feel a little better, and she laid in bed with me for a while which was nice... If all of my molars weren't killing me (clenched way too hard while sleeping) i could eat a saltine or 2 and do it.. but nope.. cant chew.

[ConcinusMan]

I want snow!!!

You can have it. I'll take the sunshine and low 80's coming this week.:D

If I can find the time, I'm going herping for rattlers. If you don't hear from me again, something went terribly wrong.:p

[EasternGirl]

I forgot you have the flu! Sorry Chantel...I hope you get better soon. Well, as soon as you are up to it...try to do the towel thing with Mama. Maybe Ember could lie there with the two of you.

[kibakiba]

Ember wants nothing to do with me anymore, he just keeps getting more and more jumpy. I did the towel thing with Mama but nothing came out or anything.. She just kind of hung out with me and let me rub her chin. It was nice to sit with her when I wasn't feeling good. She's my little buddy, that's for sure.

[EasternGirl]

Well...at least you guys had some bonding time. It might not be an immediate thing either. I don't know...I'm just trying to find anything that might help you at this point. If Mama likes to sit with you like that...I would keep letting her sit with you on a warm towel...if anything, the increased heat is good for her immune system...increased heat is good when they are sick and the book I read did say to increase heat if a female is retaining anything after birth. Maybe you could put a warm dry washcloth in Ember's tank for him to snuggle up on...the heat might stimulate something to pass and it would probably make him more comfy. I say dry because it probably wouldn't be good for him to sit around on a wet towel.

[kibakiba]

Dampness does help him pass though, he always gets his prolapse stuck on he papertowels and everything else that's dry if it touches him. I'll do what I can for now, it's hard not being able to do much.

[EasternGirl]

I know...just do what you can...it's all you can do. Thinking good thoughts for you.

[kibakiba]

I'm going to put Ember down today. There's blood all over the tank...It'd be selfish of me to keep him alie any longer.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like the right decision Chantel. Our prayers are with you and Ember.

[kibakiba]

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3803/sdc14234l.jpg
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[guidofatherof5]

Sleep well Ember.
Thanks for all the joy you brought Chantel.

[mikem]

always a hard decision to make. RIP Ember :(

[EasternGirl]

I'm so sorry Chantel...you are doing the right thing for Ember...he will be at peace now. Rest in peace Ember....

[kibakiba]

those pictures and the video were taken right before I put him down. It was really nice to spend time with him. I kind of wish I loved on him longer but it also hurt to see him in the condition he was in. Not sure if it shows in the pics but he was literally skin and bones. This year has started off so badly, I'm not sure whether it's a sign that the year is going to suck, or hope that it's going to get better... I really hope it gets better because all these deaths are not making for a very stable me.

[EasternGirl]

I'm so sorry Chantel...I just know how much you must be hurting right now. I wish there was something I could say to make it better, but I know I can't. I know how much you loved Ember. You did everything you could. He is at peace now...just know that. He takes your love with him. Alright look...I am officially declaring that this year has got to start picking up, because it has started out so crappy for all of us! I will it to be so! Marnie has spoken dangit! Dangit sounds so stupid when I am trying to be forceful...stupid bad word blockers...argggh.

[kibakiba]

Well it certainly has caused my chest quite a bit of pain... It feels like someone punched my ribs.

I really do hope the year perks up, because if it stays this bad I have no chance of getting a job. God knows I need money right now. I'd be able to take better care of my snakes if I had more money. I'd also be more stable mentally because I could afford some actual medication for my problems!
You should have used doggonit... Uhhh... I don't know how to spell it.

[EasternGirl]

I need a job too...isn't it fun trying to find a job when there aren't any to be found and your depressed and feel like crap? I hope the pain eases up some...although I know it will take some time. I'm going to bed...dagnabit.

[kibakiba]

It isn't just that, it'd be my first job... Got agoraphobia but decided that the only way to get over it was to take it head on... Phobias and depression don't mix well.

[indigoman]

Sorry to read about Ember,my thoughts are with you

[chris-uk]

From what you described there was only one thing you could do for Ember. When you can get through a day like this and not feel like **** afterwards, that is when you need to worry. Tomorrow will because better day.
And hats off for taking your phobias on headfirst.

[EasternGirl]

Yes..Chantel...it's a very brave thing to do....facing your fears like that...good for you.

[katach]

Chantel, I just read about Ember. I'm so sorry. Call me if you need to talk. I have the 8th and 9th off. If you want this spring I will find a beautiful Puget or NW for you!

[kibakiba]

I'd love to have a puget, i've wanted one since I started taking care of snakey.

Perhaps if you do find one, we can trade off Snakey to see if he'll love on Blade some more... He's been sleeping a lot!

[katach]

That sounds great! Pugets are great! We go hiking at the same place quite often. I'll bring a proper snake transporting container next time we go. We are getting a male Puget soon from Michael. He's just a baby still, only a few months old. His name is going to be Bugs, because they have buggy eyes. After his quarantine we will be setting up a man cave for Fish Bait and Bugs. Then later in the spring Joe and I are doing a trade I'm sending him a NW and he's sending me a male Natrix (Kiff) So there will be 3 dudes in the man cave.

[kibakiba]

Hehehe. If it would be possible, I'd like a female. I wanna have a tank for just my girls... Snakey will have to live alone since his tank buddy died... :(

[katach]

I'll do my best. I'm not that great at sexing though. Are you sure Snakey wouldn't like a new roomie?

[kibakiba]

Well, he kept bugging Ember and courting with him... I think it would be less stressful for a new snake to not have the little horndog flirting all the time ;)

[katach]

Got it. :D I'll do my best to find you a girl. I might even be able to get one from Michael if you want a baby. I'll have to ask him though.

[kibakiba]

That would work too. Whatever works with you guys is fine :)

[katach]

Well I know we are going hiking there at some point so if you want an adult I can do that or if you want a baby, I'll talk to Michael. You pick. :)

[kibakiba]

A baby would be nice, because babies are always awesome, but if that doesn't work out, an adult is fine, too. :)

[katach]

Ok. I'll talk to Michael about it. You want me to get her switched to pinkies first?

[kibakiba]

Anything is fine, it's easiest to have a pinky eating snake... But, if that doesn't happen I can do it. :)


Snakey is coming out of brumation today! Yaaaay! He seems happy to see the light and start warming up. I missed my little sweet heart.

[EasternGirl]

Yay Snakey!

[kibakiba]

He's in my office right now, and he keeps trying to get out to me... So cute.. I love snakey so much!

[katach]

He is a sweety for sure.

[kibakiba]

He loves all the attention to be on him, at all times! :D

[katach]

I noticed that while he was here. :D

[kibakiba]

Yeah.. He's a silly little guy.... He's so loveable though!

[kibakiba]

He's currently trying to get out of the tank.. he smells the ladies... and he tried courting with my knitting needles... I would hate to be him!

[kibakiba]

Snakey is on a food strike now, apparantly. He won't eat his delicious pinky. He acts like it's a brussel sprout.

[guidofatherof5]

Snakey is on a food strike now, apparantly. He won't eat his delicious pinky. He acts like it's a brussel sprout.

I'm with you Snakey. At least as far as brussel sprouts would go.

and no, I don't eat pinkies either.:D

[kibakiba]

Snakey never rejects pinkies, unless there are ladies involved... So, he's going to be off food until blade is good and ready I guess... ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Oh Chantel..I'm sorry to hear this...so it's a failure to thrive situation?

NO. Not at all. "failure to thrive" refers to newborn snakes that just deteriorate and fail to develop, eat, and grow after birth. That is just not the case here.

Sorry to hear it Chantel. Very sorry. Don't beat yourself up over it though. These things just happen sometimes. Goes with the territory. I know you take excellent care of your snakes. It's not your fault. We all lose some sometimes.

[kibakiba]

I know. She was born thinner than a q-tip and neer got past the size of a q-tip. She was half the size of Azul, the first litters runt.

However, I should have done more in Embers case, to prevent it from happening.

[kibakiba]

Snakey is really weak... To the point where I'm legitimately worried about him. He's losing weight pretty fast and he moves a lot but as I said, he's weak... I think food would help him gain some strength back, but he's not eating because the in "breeding mode". Anyone want to help me think of something so he'll eat?

[guidofatherof5]

All you can feed him is what's available.
Any chance you can find some slugs?

[aquamentus_11]

does it help to separate them from the female when this happens or is he dialed in until he mates?

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...I was thinking the same thing. I think when I take Seeley away from Cee Cee for a while he eventually starts to get over it and focus on other things.

[kibakiba]

I have them in the same room, but he's been in a different tank... He ws like that even in a different room. At the moment I only have salmon and pinkies.I've offered him both, seperately and mixed together. Last time he went 3 months until I finally let him mate with Mama because he was getting so thin. I don't think he'll last that long this time. I have to keep him un-mated for Kat, since we have a breeding plan and I don't want to put him with Mama, because she's having issues from her last jellybean fest.

[EasternGirl]

Well...if I were you I would discuss this with Kat. You don't want to risk his health. You might have to bump up the breeding plan to an earlier date or cancel it if he continues on like this and just let him mate with someone else.