New Female... and new questions...

[lauwersp]

Hi everyone...

Well... based on all of your helpful advice things are well in my home in Northern Michigan. My habitat for my male consists of a large, holey artificial rock (which he appears to really like) and Carefresh bedding and a large tupperware of water. I take him out about every second to third day to hold him and let him crawl over my hands, arms, and sometimes desk...

I'd REALLY like to get to start eating silversides which I also bought... he's too smart. I bought some fresh minnows and added a couple silversides all in his water dish. Eats all the minnows... doesn't touch the silversides...

Current plan is to let him get really hungry (2 weeks of no food) and try the silversides again. Opinions welcome.

On another note... I have a friend in lower Michigan who is deathly afraid of snakes (including garters) and has a big backyard which has generally had garters living in it. Making matters worse for her is the now vacant rental property next door. When the owner FINALLY had someone come cut the lawn, it apparently triggered a mass exodus of garters some of which went her way. Well... she found one in her house and went ballistic. She now wants to have an exterminator come to her property. Well THAT thought didn't sit well with me so I went down (and will continue to periodically do so) and saw/caught one garter in the vacant lots backyard. YAY! My first female. And she musked me RIGHT away just so I was sure. ;)

ANYWAY... I brought her home and now have more questions.

I put her in the tank with my male. They seem more than fine together. She still generally acclimating now.

Questions...

1. I know females are more aggressive, faster to run/jump, and can musk when upset. Does this mean people in general don't typically take their females out of the tank like I'm taking my male out? Is she likely to musk a lot if I do?

2. Should I be leaving a male and female together in the same tank?

3. Can someone help with proper identification of whether she's an Eastern Garter? If not then what? She's darker than my male and she's more oily black/tan than black/yellow although her belly is pretty yellow (but only around her head).

Thanks everyone!

[Selkielass]

Hello!
I'm in Michigan too, but I'm in SE MI, between Detroit and Port Huron.
In Michigan we have Eastern and Butlers Garters- see the Mi DNR page
DNR - Amphibians & Reptiles (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12201---,00.html)
and this page;Michigan Herps - Michigan's Snakes (http://michiganherps.webs.com/michiganssnakes.htm)

Placement of the side stripe seems to be key in telling them apart.

Beautiful snakes, are they as yellow as they appear in those pictures? If so I'm a bit envious! My Abby is far more tan than yellow.

I can't comment much on your other questions, I'm a newcomer myself, but I think the big risk in having them together is ending up with a litter of babies!

[ConcinusMan]

Very pretty snakes. I'll leave the ID up the experts but you can just go ahead and keep them all together if they have plenty of room, hides, and basking areas.

As far as attitude goes, larger snakes tend to be calmer, especially females. Musking is generally done once when caught, and perhaps a few times after that IF you startle or surprise the snakes by reaching in and just grabbing them. I've never had a WC garter continue to musk me. They generally figure out after the first time or two, that it doesn't accomplish anything. Once you get them to eat from your hand and they associate you with feeding time, you can bet musking will not happen again.

I'll bet they would eat night crawlers. Might want to try different kinds of fish too, such as trout or salmon. If all else fails, you can try frog legs from a meat market or WC frogs frozen solid for 60 days to kill parasites. Most frog eating garters will go for that.

[Laura]

Hiya, I have a lil girl and she is super fast! I wouldn't say she is aggressive at all but then again she isn't WC, however the pet store I got her from had not handled her at all so after the initial couple of bites after transporting her from the store to her new home she's never even attempted to do anything of the sort since and she's never musked me or Mark to my knowledge.

I get Lola out every day, so I wouldn't let the fact that she is female prevent you from doing the same :P obviously give her a couple of weeks to settle down in her new environment etc. and she should come round :) I'd help more but I have no experience with WC garters but there are loaaads of people on here that do so I'm sure my advice will be bettered in no time ;)

[drache]

are their sides really that yellow?
it's very attractive
congrats
the letting them get hungry thing is something I also do, and in most cases it works well
in any case it works better than pushing food at them all the time
I switch my garters to pinkies using the dead food bobbing in the dish with the live fish, and it's not like it works the first time - hardly ever - but I think it gets them used to the other taste/smell, and eventually it's not so foreign and they eat it
with silversides I don't bother with water because they have such a strong smell
you can try to let the snake(s) get hungry and then put them (individually) in a small container with the food item over night
good luck with that

[lauwersp]

Thank you for the advice all! I'm glad to know that the musking will not be an everytime thing and that I can take her out and enjoy her company.

As far as the coloring goes, he is a black and bright yellow. Very pretty. Hey black is a much more oily matte black and tan with the tan turning to yellow under her head.

I'm gonna work on feeding them silversides starting today...

[guidofatherof5]

Great looking pair.
Male + Female= babies. This is always a possibility, breeding season or not. If you are prepared for babies than leave them together.
Females as a rule are calmer and quicker to trust. Once in a great while I get a male that is easy to handle.
The musking should end soon.
Good luck.

[lauwersp]

Thanks Steve.

My male was great from pretty much day one. Every now and then he jumps a little when he hears the screen come off the tank top, but that's rare. As long as he isn't hiding I can easily reach in and pull him out for a visit.

Even though it's only the second day in her new home, she is very active in the tank and I've got pics of her lounging at the top of the big rock (which is almost as tall as the tank so the top is right near the screen. She hasn't run when then camera comes close for a pic or i poke my face (slowly) near her.

I'm anxious to take her out and see her.

I have no problem with babies and if they choose to procreate I'm prepared for the result. I have a large tank unused but ready should I come into a larger number of snakes. As I mentioned in my first post, the people downstate feel like there are a large number and they want them gone one way or another. It would really hurt me to think that they are going to be exterminated so I'll go back and spend a little more time there.

Hence, another post.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/7303-best-time-stalking.html

Thanks!

Peter

[guidofatherof5]

Keep contact with the people down the street. If they see you making an effort to remove the snakes they are less likely to do something extreme.
It's also a good chance to you to explain to them how harmless they are and the benefits to having them around.
I've turned a few of my neighbors around with this tactic.:D

[lauwersp]

Well... the only person who I need to worry about is my friend... and as much as I would like to convert her... this is not a person likely converted. I've never seen the girl cry, yet the day there was a garter in her living room she was hysterical and lying atop her kitchen counter calling me... who lives 4 hours away... sheesh...

Anyway, as long as I continue to put forth effort to eradicate (meaning REMOVE), she's fine... As I have room for more than two snakes, I am kinda hoping to make my trips more productive than one snake at a time...

Peter

[ssssnakeluvr]

yes, those are easterns. I have a very yellow male also.

[lauwersp]

Thanks Don! Are all the males usually brighter in color? I know it often works that way in the animal world...

[ssssnakeluvr]

sometimes...it varies with these snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

Sometimes?

[ssssnakeluvr]

not all males are prettier than the females.... some of my females are very pretty

[ConcinusMan]

No, I meant it only varies sometimes? You know, nevermind. I still think those really yellow easterns are some of the prettiest easterns I've seen.

[Mommy2many]

So far, my male easterns are more colorful than the females.

[ConcinusMan]

Purely coincidence.;)

[Mommy2many]

Girls look like Momma and boys are very pretty. Nice.