Babies!!!

[Sputnik]

...OR THE DANGEROUS IGNORANCE OF THE AMATEUR... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Little story for you all...

Once upon a time there was a girl (not so much of a girl, more of a woman really, in fact not a girl at all...), called Rosina (though her name wasn't really Rosina either, that was the name of her youngest cat, but she used the name on the Gartersnakeforum, so she wouldn't have to use her real name, Esther, oooops!).
Anyway, Rosina, got her first 2 garter snakes in January and was told they were both little boys. They were gorgeous, but not very big, especially one of them. So Rosina asked a clever man, called Alan (that was his REAL name, suprisingly) and he told her to feed earthworms, which was a huge success! The little snake, named Zuki, grew and so did his brother Zulu. Zulu in fact, grew quite fat, but as he'd been eating juicy pinkies, then fuzzies instead of the pathetic little lance fish, the seller had advised to feed him, Rosina, just assumed he was finally catching up. Though, there was this niggling little thought burried in the back of her mind..well, could he, naaah, don't be stupid.. he is a HE after all.

One day, Rosina's best friend came to visit. After prodding Zulu and Zuki, in the kindest way possible, he announced that they were, in his opinion, girls afterall! Well, hurray!
Only a week after having been squeezed by the handsome stranger, and after refusing more than just a wriggly little earthworm, Zulu provided Rosina with the biggest surprise of all...
Rosina had a peep into the tank,as often she did and saw dry skin. She yelped at her kids, that the snakies were shedding but, then squealed in hysterical suprise, when she spotted a tiny little head and another one and another one... FLIPPING HECK! Zulu had given birth to 10 babies!!! Sadly only 3 survived, but they were gorgeous and as 3 is Rosina's favourite number, she had done it again!

And hopefully they will all live happily ever after!


Photos on their way, advice will be gratefully received! Much needed too! :p

[adamanteus]

Congratulations Esther! I'm sorry to hear you lost seven of them, what happened?

[Sputnik]

Thanks, James.

I don't know what happened. When I realised, it was all over. I found the 7 dead babies when I saved the living ones from being mistaken for worms by the adults.

[reptileparadise]

Awesome!
Congrats!!!
To bad you lost 7 of them...
pics please... :p

[adamanteus]

Maybe they were still-born. It would be nice to see pictures of the three survivors, Esther.

[Snaky]

If it's the first clutch you'll have a big possibility that they are still-born. Well good luck with the 3 survivors. Just treat them as the adults, just adjust the food to their size and everything will be fine.

[Sputnik]

Happy to oblige...:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/STA60029.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/STA60028.jpg

[adamanteus]

Fantastic! I'm really pleased for you!:D

[Snaky]

They always look so fragile, those little one's. Congrats with them!

[Sid]

Congradulation Rosina:) . Small feeder guppies and small worms will do nicely to start the babies. Feed small amounts every 2 or 3 days . Then as they grow simply increase the food item size.

Sid

[Cazador]

Rosina,

I always enjoy your writing ;). I think the first three concerns with babies are that you separate them from the adults, have the humidity high enough that they can get through their first shed, and get them something to eat.

Separate them from the adults because an adult could simply lie on top of a baby and impair its breathing.

They should shed within a few days, but it won't be a normal shed... more like peeling skin. Little ones are more prone to dehydration, so give them a humidity box or something.

The fourth thing to consider is that young snakes usually thrive A LOT better when they are photographed often and posted on the internet. This is a very important consideration not to be overlooked.

Rick

[Snaky]

I will post another reason why it's sometimes interesting to seperate them from the adults. In very rare cases they get eaten by the adults. At this moment, I've only heart about males doing that and it's rare, but it can occur. It's no fun when you see that your snake has had babies, just to see that your male has eaten half of them before you noticed the babies...

[Sputnik]

The fourth thing to consider is that young snakes usually thrive A LOT better when they are photographed often and posted on the internet. This is a very important consideration not to be overlooked.

Rick


Duly noted. ;)

Thank you, Rick.

[adamanteus]

I will post another reason why it's sometimes interesting to seperate them from the adults. In very rare cases they get eaten by the adults. At this moment, I've only heart about males doing that and it's rare, but it can occur. It's no fun when you see that your snake has had babies, just to see that your male has eaten half of them before you noticed the babies...

I had that happen to me once, a long time ago. T. m. marcianus was the culprit, as you say, it was the male.

[LeapinLeo]

well good luck! To bad more didnt live though

[Odie]

Congradulation Rosina :D

[suzoo]

Congrads!! The babies are so CUTE!!!!

[Sputnik]

Thanks, everyone. Yeah, they are absolutely gorgeous. :D Two of them had their first meal today, the third one was a little confused, so I'll try again tomorrow. I've taken pictures, but only on my mobile phone, so they might be a bit blury, I'll check them this evening.

[Sputnik]

Day 1, the survivors:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/DSC00757.jpg

Babyface:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/babyface.jpg


Day 2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/day2004.jpg

[adamanteus]

Are they the pictures you took on your mobile 'phone Esther? Obviously I need to update my mobile! Beautiful babies, by the way.

[Sputnik]

Thanks, James, yes they are. The camera on the phone sometimes works better than the proper camera. :cool:

[adamanteus]

Two of them had their first meal today

What did they take as their first meal, Esther? Let us know how the third one goes on.

[LeapinLeo]

and how much?

[drache]

Congratulations Esther (oops)
Those are beautiful babies.
How exciting!

[Sputnik]

They had a very small earthworm each. The third one will hopefully have some breakfast tomorrow.

[LeapinLeo]

thats good to hear

[adamanteus]

Maybe, if he still won't eat tomorrow, you might consider separating them. It may be he is intimidated by his siblings, and needs a little time alone with his meal!

[Sputnik]

I fed them in a separate container, one at a time. :)

[adamanteus]

Oh right. We can only watch and wait then Esther. Good luck.

[Sputnik]

Sadly still no luck with one of the babies. I assume it's the same one as last time. Oh well, I'll persevere, I'm sure it will get the idea eventually.

A couple of new photos of the babes at home:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/april1812.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrsSputnik/april1820.jpg

[Cazador]

Now THAT's funny! I'm curious... do you use that blanket to tuck them in at night or to make their bed a little softer? Do they sleep on their backs or stomachs? ;)

Seriously though... you know how you have to try a lot of different things sometimes in order to get snakes to eat. Sometimes separating them helps, but sometimes putting them together helps. As the folks from the Netherlands say, "seeing eating causes eating." Just cut the worm pieces fairly small, and keep an eye on them but remain still. You'll have to keep experimenting with different techniques and different food items.

Rick

[Snaky]

Very nice pictures!:D

I agree with Rick, cut some worms in very small pieces. Stay close and still and watch over them, it might stimulate the one that's not eating.

Another trick might be to take live fish and make the water level so small that the fish will splash. That sometime's gives a very good response.

[drache]

some of my animals don't like to be watched when they eat, although I don't know why that would be the case with a newborn.
you neve know though
maybe leave him in a smaller enclosure alone with the prey

[jewel-dragons]

super cool that little nice rope's :-)

[Thamnophis]

They look very good, those little ones.
Congratulations!!!

In general I always try feeding newborn snakes with the food that is the easiest to get. So with garter snakes I always tried dead fish first and this always worked out fine.

[Sputnik]

Good news: all the babies fed happily today! I don't have easy access to guppies and couldn't find any small earthworms so cut up a larger one. Can't say I enjoyed it! I used the sharpest knife I have and had my head turned away as I chopped the poor wriggly thing into pieces. Eurgh. Not my idea of fun!

Thanks for all the advice! :)

[adamanteus]

Esther, that's great news! Not pleasant, but at least they're eating, so all is well. You'll soon wean them onto easier food items now. Well done you.

[Thamnophis]

Good news.
After a few feedings with worms you best start to add some fish to the food, combined with worms. Or chopped mouse.
So they get used to other types of food.
So when you cannot find any worms, you have an alternative.

[Cazador]

Good advice from Fons, there. If they like worms, you might feed them one piece. Then hold another piece of worm along with a scented pinkie part in a pair of forceps at the same time, but keep the pinkie part closest to the snake to entice it to strike the pinkie part. It's easiest to cut up pinkies while they're still frozen... less mess and firmer meat to cut. At least you got the most pressing concern (feeding) out of the way, so I'm happy for you.

Rick

[Sid]

Great news on the feeding and enjoyed the photos.

Sid

[Mr. Nielsen]

What kind of garters are they ?

[Sputnik]

Good question! The shop told me the mother and her sister (?) were simply Thamnophis Sirtalis, but they also told me they were both male and to feed them on one tiny lance fish a week! Any ideas anyone?



CHOPPING UP PINKIES??? :eek: Eeeek, guys, you're having a laugh, aren't you? I can only just about feed them without beating myself up for feeling so guilty and I'm still traumatised from the worm experience! On the upside, I have bought some guppies yesterday and intend on leaving their poor little babies alone with their fate in the waterdish. Knowing my luck the guppies are probably infertile though!