Quarantine Talk Thread

[guidofatherof5]

I think a thread discussing the quarantining of snakes is long over due. Whether those snakes are CB(captive Breed) or WC(Wild Caught)

Quarantine- A strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease.
Seems simple enough, but is it that simple.
Why quarantine, what are we afraid of:
External parasites and disease like mites and ticks. If you've ever had to deal with reptile mites you should be a strong advocate of strict quarantine periods.
Sometimes wild caught or even captive bred snakes have skin disorders like scale rot or infections that can be spread when sores or blisters break.
Stomatitis- Mouth rot
Blister disease
Septicemia(blood infections)
Respiratory infections(sometimes caused by septicemia)
Eye Infections
Viral infections(difficult to diagnose without blood examinations)

Then the internal reasons for quarantine.
Parasites- hookworms, pin worms, tapeworms, protozoa, flukes.
All of these are easily transmitted to a new host.

I don't think it's realistic to imply that we as keepers can protect against all these listed and the many unlisted problems. Most of us don't have the money or we don't have access to a qualified reptile Vet.
I believe there must be some kind of quarantine period for all of us. It is inconvenient and a hassle in many respects but the fear of losing and entire collect should be the driving force behind imposing one.
I quarantine all WC or purchased CB snakes for 60 days(longer if needed). They are away for the rest of my collection and a strict hand washing rule is unforced. If money allows all my snakes get a fecal examine from time to time. If a parasite is discovered the entire enclosure is treated. I consider all WC snakes to have internal parasites until proven otherwise.
As noted above a quarantine period can be extended if need. I take in many sick and weak snakes. Some due to human neglect and other due to environmental reasons. Some are just old and tired.
I never want to have the quilt of losing some of my favorite snakes/friends because it was inconvenient to house them separately.

Please feel free to discuss your quarantine procedures as I by no means consider mine to be perfect. There are many other great ideas with regards to this thread that can help us all become better caregivers to these awesome snake.

[mustang]

i didnt think stomatis was contagious?

[guidofatherof5]

i didnt think stomatis was contagious?
Infectious Stomatitis (Mouth Rot) in Reptiles: Causes, Signs, Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention (http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1831&aid=2385)

[mustang]

thats what i get for thinkn :)

[guidofatherof5]

thats what i get for thinkn :)


There's nothing wrong with your thinking. We all need to ask question:)

[mustang]

but i like to be the one giving answers :P

[ConcinusMan]

Then you should know that no single one of us has all the answers. However, with all of us combined here together with our collective knowledge and experience, there's hardly a question to be asked that cannot find an answer here, am I right?

Good. I like to be right.:p

[drache]

before you can give the answers, you must have asked the questions at some point, unless you've got an annoying entity feeding you info all the time

[Spankenstyne]

Great thread. I had thought about putting something up particularly with all the talk of WC animals being added to collections (as mentioned CB animals being brought into a new home also apply). A couple of things to add:

Quarantine in a separate room, preferrably in the opposite end of the house on a separate floor if possible. It sounds excessive, but there are airborn pathogens that can be spread by proximity.

Always handle, feed, or otherwise deal with your quarantined animals last. After you've already dealt with the rest of your collection & ideally at the end of the day if possible. Then you can wash up, and toss your clothes in the laundry. This helps limit exposure with you the keeper as a carrier.

[ConcinusMan]

Good idea.

[mustang]

Good. I like to be right.:p
:eek:what a coincidence! so do i:D:rolleyes:

[chris-uk]

Time to resurrect an old thread, as it's important to me right now and I don't think this old thread had run it's full course. So, there's two posts in the thread that gave useful advice:


I think a thread discussing the quarantining of snakes is long over due. Whether those snakes are CB(captive Breed) or WC(Wild Caught)

Quarantine- A strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease.
Seems simple enough, but is it that simple.
Why quarantine, what are we afraid of:
External parasites and disease like mites and ticks. If you've ever had to deal with reptile mites you should be a strong advocate of strict quarantine periods.
Sometimes wild caught or even captive bred snakes have skin disorders like scale rot or infections that can be spread when sores or blisters break.
Stomatitis- Mouth rot
Blister disease
Septicemia(blood infections)
Respiratory infections(sometimes caused by septicemia)
Eye Infections
Viral infections(difficult to diagnose without blood examinations)

Then the internal reasons for quarantine.
Parasites- hookworms, pin worms, tapeworms, protozoa, flukes.
All of these are easily transmitted to a new host.

I don't think it's realistic to imply that we as keepers can protect against all these listed and the many unlisted problems. Most of us don't have the money or we don't have access to a qualified reptile Vet.
I believe there must be some kind of quarantine period for all of us. It is inconvenient and a hassle in many respects but the fear of losing and entire collect should be the driving force behind imposing one.
I quarantine all WC or purchased CB snakes for 60 days(longer if needed). They are away for the rest of my collection and a strict hand washing rule is unforced. If money allows all my snakes get a fecal examine from time to time. If a parasite is discovered the entire enclosure is treated. I consider all WC snakes to have internal parasites until proven otherwise.
As noted above a quarantine period can be extended if need. I take in many sick and weak snakes. Some due to human neglect and other due to environmental reasons. Some are just old and tired.
I never want to have the quilt of losing some of my favorite snakes/friends because it was inconvenient to house them separately.

Please feel free to discuss your quarantine procedures as I by no means consider mine to be perfect. There are many other great ideas with regards to this thread that can help us all become better caregivers to these awesome snake.

Steve - Anything you have changed/added to your quarantine process since then (your post is over 18 months old)?




Great thread. I had thought about putting something up particularly with all the talk of WC animals being added to collections (as mentioned CB animals being brought into a new home also apply). A couple of things to add:

Quarantine in a separate room, preferrably in the opposite end of the house on a separate floor if possible. It sounds excessive, but there are airborn pathogens that can be spread by proximity.

Always handle, feed, or otherwise deal with your quarantined animals last. After you've already dealt with the rest of your collection & ideally at the end of the day if possible. Then you can wash up, and toss your clothes in the laundry. This helps limit exposure with you the keeper as a carrier.

Again - anything you've changed in the years since this post Spankenstyne?


Now to move the thread forward I'm looking for other people's views on what to do during quarantine, not just to isolate the risky snake, but also a time scale for what order things are best done in. So:


Is there a particular order of treatments? I.e. fecal float, anti-paracite meds, anti-tapeworm meds (I read that Pancur doesn't treat tapeworms, but it is most commonly used for deworming snakes).
Any advice on specific hand-cleaning? Soap and a scrubbing brush does it for surgeons... what do you do? Would you go as far as gloving up to deal with a new WC?
Would you do the basics, like keep the snake in quarantine for 2 weeks (or longer?) to see if it is eating, pooping, shedding, etc properly before looking at treating for worms?
Is the practice of de-worming a WC on the assumption that most WC will have a paracite load still valid?
Are there any drawbacks to de-worming an otherwise healthy snake?
What are the aeriel pathogens that are referred to above?

So, some points for discussion. I think this thread was started to try to get a concensus on best-practice, and whilst I value Steve's knowledge and experience, and it's a good starting point, I know there is a wealth of other experience on the forum so let's get the knowledge in a thread and maybe get a quarantine caresheet written from it.

[gregmonsta]

My process is pretty simple:

WC - standard observation of eating/shedding/pooping
1. House seperately in basic set up
2. Fecal test
3.Treatment if required
4.Follow up fecal
Timeframe 6 months minimum.

LTC - same as for WC

CB - from unknown breeder/shop
As for WC but 1 month timeframe if no issues found

CB - from trusted breeder
Straight in the enclosure

I would never medicate for potential parasite loads just 'for the Hell of it' always wait for a fecal screen first. De-worming can be a stressful thing depending on the meds and the method of administration, considering a new WC, LTC and even the occaisional CB have already had their fair share of stress getting to you in the first place, so adding that stress to a snake that may not need it seems completely wrong to me.

When going between main collection and quarantine I use a veterinary grade hand disinfectant (bought from the local vets).

[chris-uk]

Greg - does your vet do the decal screening? Or do you know a good lab in the UK that takes samples direct?

[gregmonsta]

I tend to just go to my vet. I know there were a couple of labs advertised on RFUK but, personally, I prefer dealing with my vet as he knows the history of my collection and I can get the meds straight away instead of waiting/having to dig for the appropriate meds. Also, he doesn't use a lab, he does the screenings himself and tends to be on par for price.

[aquamentus_11]

does anyone know if mites can climb upside down?

[guidofatherof5]

I would think they can, having the ability to climb glass.

Stinkin' scum of the earth mites. :mad:

[PINJOHN]

Greg - does your vet do the decal screening? Or do you know a good lab in the UK that takes samples direct?
Pinmore animal laboratory services limited ..tel.01829 781855 it's situated in Cheshire

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks Chris for bumping this thread up. It's a very important subject.

[chris-uk]

Thanks Chris for bumping this thread up. It's a very important subject.

I plan to give it a few days for everyone to contribute, then collate responses into a plan that seems sensible and suits my situation (and future situations I can envisage). I'll then share my quarantine plan in the same way that you did with yours back in 2010.

[chris-uk]

Now here's another question about quarantining multiple animals.

Quarantine single animals in isolation? Or quarantine more than one in the same tank?

I know what I consider to be the sensible scientific method, however I think it's not clearcut, and there are circumstances when I would break a strict protocol. Discuss.

[guidofatherof5]

I would think it is best to separate all snakes.

Can you give me an idea as to what situation would void strict protocol?

[chris-uk]

Pinmore animal laboratory services limited ..tel.01829 781855 it's situated in Cheshire

Thanks John. I'll stick a website link here to keep the info about this lab in the same place:
Veterinary Laboratory, Tests For Companion & Exotic Animals (http://www.palsvetlab.co.uk/index.html)

[EasternGirl]

Okay...so if I am getting a snake from my breeder that I trust...and he is the same breeder that I got Hermes from, but, the snake has neuro issues...that we are fairly certain are congenital and not contagious...but we cannot be 100% positive...how long should I quarantine the new snake before putting him in with Hermes? I mean, the neuro issues are not going away. So, the risk is there if by chance they turn out to be contagious somehow. I have discussed the neuro issues at length with the breeder. There are no indications that the snake is sick in any way other than having these neurological issues. And what if I don't have another room for the tank? And what is LTC?

[kibakiba]

As Steve normally says, it's better safe than sorry. He quarentines all snakes he recieves (I believe), even when it comes from a trusted friend or breeder.

[guidofatherof5]

As Steve normally says, it's better safe than sorry. He quarentines all snakes he recieves (I believe), even when it comes from a trusted friend or breeder.

I do.
Which brings up the point that there is no set way of doing this. What works for me is just that.
My hope for this thread was to stimulate discussion about the procedure and hopefully cause people with no quarantine procedures to adopt one.

[chris-uk]

Marnie - LTC = Long-Term Captive
And if you were to lean more towards Greg's method, a CB from a trusted breeder, wouldnt need quarantine.

Steve - the sort of scenario I had in mind was two snakes from the same place that had already been kept together. Would you separate those?
Another scenario would be two snakes brought in at the same time that were going to undergo the same quarantine period and treatment.

[Stefan-A]

a CB from a trusted breeder, wouldnt need quarantine.
Even trusted breeders have the occasional oopsies.

[chris-uk]

Even trusted breeders have the occasional oopsies.

Agreed. I'd still quarantine for a period, I was using this as an example for how different people have slightly different methods. How do you handle quarantine Stefan?

[EasternGirl]

Well I am actually just feeling out everyone's opinion here...since my situation is a little different...with the snake having the neuro issues. I was wondering what Greg would do in that case...snake is coming from a trusted breeder but has the neuro problem, which is most likely congenital...but we can't be absolutely certain as to the cause.

I am also curious as to the answer to Chris' question...I mean obviously if you, Steve, send me two snakes in the spring that have been housed together...I won't have to quarantine them separately, right?

[Stefan-A]

Agreed. I'd still quarantine for a period, I was using this as an example for how different people have slightly different methods. How do you handle quarantine Stefan?
I haven't had any new animals come in, in the last 4 years, I think. Last time, I had the new animals separated from my other snakes by a good 155 km for about 4 months. ;) That time, I had the two that came in the same container, in the same enclosure.

[guidofatherof5]

Well I am actually just feeling out everyone's opinion here...since my situation is a little different...with the snake having the neuro issues. I was wondering what Greg would do in that case...snake is coming from a trusted breeder but has the neuro problem, which is most likely congenital...but we can't be absolutely cI am also curious as to the answer to Chris' question...I mean obviously if you, Steve, send me two snakes in the spring that have been housed together...I won't have to quarantine them separately, right?

That would be correct unless you want to do it separately. They should still be quarantined though.
In my opinion a quarantine period should be blind to whom or where the snakes came from.
I hope everyone who receives snakes from me will quarantine them. It's just good procedure and policy. ;)

[EasternGirl]

Right...well I do plan to quarantine them...I just didn't think it would be necessary to separate them from each other.

[ConcinusMan]

Probably not. It's just that if one of those snakes has a contagious disease, but not the rest, if anything goes wrong you lose them all.

Also keep in mind that a truley effective quarantine means keeping them in a separate room, not just a separate enclosure. You would also need to take all precautions necessary to avoid bringing microbes and parasites from the quarantine area into the main collection. (cross contamination)

Personally, my quarantine practices aren't very strict. But with that said, I must accept a tiny bit of risk of losing an entire collection. That has never happened in all my years of keeping snakes, knock on wood. For the most part, just keeping new snakes in separate enclosures and watching them closely over a couple of months has worked for me. If there's any health issues with new snakes its usually apparent within 60 days and most problems aren't so contageous. Most problems I've encountered, it's enough just to keep them in separate enclosures. For example, taking in wild snakes that turn out to leave parasites / eggs in the water dish. That happens. I don't want my "clean" captive snakes to drink that water. I would only allow those snakes to join others after they have been treated for parasites and are apparently free of them.

If you can take a more strict and cautious approach, it certainly does no harm to do so. As they say "better safe than sorry":cool:

[guidofatherof5]

With a lot of people getting new snakes I thought I would give this thread a bump.
Quarantine is a very important subject and all keeper should set some kind of rules when it comes to their collection.

[ProXimuS]

I never actually did a quarantine with mine, but didn't think it would be necessary since he's my only one. Should I have done it just to monitor him regardless of the fact that he won't be around other snakes? Is it too late to do it now?
He's been to the vet and dewormed, but didn't get the actual fecal test done. Should I just to be safe?!

[guidofatherof5]

A single snake is already in quarantine. You should be fine.

[ProXimuS]

Ok good, Thank you for the stress off my shoulders:p I feel like everything is fine, but I read threads like this and get all paranoid!

[kerensa]

alright, Here is my question. but first back ground.

I have ALWAYS quarentined any new reptile, but have never before gotten more then one from the same source at the same time. I expect when I purchase this this fall (or maybe next summer if I have to wait due to availability) I expect to be purchasing several from the same person in a couple of cases. Likely some even from the same birthing. They will all be shipped togeather I expect. sould I seperate these snakes for a 6 month quarentine? Or is it fine to quarentine snakes that arrive togeather, togeather?

[katach]

Personally I would separate them until I see if they are mite free, see a poop, and a shed then I would put them together for the rest of the quarantine. That is just me though. I'll let other put their thought in.

[guidofatherof5]

It really becomes your call but keep in mind that separating them out gives you a chance to see individual aspects that housing together doesn't.
Monitoring feces, eating habits, attitudes and shedding is important even if they are from the same breeder.
Just my opinion.

[kerensa]

I see. seperate sounds best. it certainly will make my record keeping easier. I always have kept records of bowl movements (when and any noticeable features) as well as feeding for all young stock. That way if my vet asks I can simply look it up. (I also take these records to the vet.)

[guidofatherof5]

Thought I would give this a bump for some of the newer member.

[kueluck]

Thanks Steve :). Since I'm headed to the reptile show this coming weekend the information might be/is helpful.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm giving this a bump as I feel quarantine is a very important subject and new members/keepers should have a set quarantine period for all new snakes..

[ConcinusMan]

Seems there's a few threads on the forum that should be "sticky" Maybe this is one of them?

[guidofatherof5]

Seems there's a few threads on the forum that should be "sticky" Maybe this is one of them?

Send in a request to a mod. or boots.

[Greg'sGarters]

i didnt think stomatis was contagious?


Trust me, it is. It killed both of my boas. One got it, and died. Then a week later, the other got it, and died.

[ConcinusMan]

Stomatis is a condition sort of like hepatitis is. (hepatitis is a condition that can be caused by anything that inhibits liver function. One of several viruses, heavy drinking, drug use, cancer, etc.) There can be different causes for the stomatis condition. Some of the causes of stomatis certainly are highly contagious but that all depends on what's causing it. If it's a bacteria, virus, or fungus causing it, it certainly is contagious. When I was breeding pigeons there was a fungus going around that caused it. Very hard to get rid of, and spreads like wildfire.

[guidofatherof5]

This thread is now a "Sticky" under the Husbandry tab. Thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Thought I would give this a bump. Important subject matter.

[Ruth]

I thought I was a bit over the top with keeping new additions in separate rooms when they come to me. I keep them on separate floors as well, as a corn I once bought from a pet shop came to me with mites and I'm aware they crawl where they like (yuck). I tend to keep them on their own for three months, a figure I just thought seemed reasonable. I also make sure the enclosures are minimal and contain no wood or loose bedding but paper and cardboard tubes, dishes are glass and they are kept in RUBs as they are easy to clean without the use of any chemicals or cleaners. I spot clean daily and clean at least once weekly cleaning the RUB with very very hot water. I apply alcohol gel immediately after handling and wash my hands when I get to the bathroom. I don't change my clothing after handling but I wear short sleeved tops and don't place the animal on my clothing. I feel sorry for the snakes in solitary confinement but it's lovely putting them in their new homes with their new playmates.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like you are taking good precautions which translates into better health for all your animals, and yourself.;)

[ConcinusMan]

I thought I was a bit over the top with keeping new additions in separate rooms when they come to me.

Naaah. But if you start getting the urge to pile up enclosures in your yard for a bonfire, you should probably call someone LoL

http://www.atypicallyrelevant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/FamilyGuyStewie-Straight-Jacket-150x150.gif

[Ruth]

I do like a good fire :)

[guidofatherof5]

This is why quarantine is so important.

Approximately 60 days ago I received a snake. It was placed in quarantine just like any other snake.
This morning I walked by and glanced in on it. It was doing the "Funky Chicken" I found this strange as I haven't taught that dance yet in Thamnophis Dance Class.:D

All kidding aside he was scraping himself along the substrate. In my experience this usually mean only one thing, MITES!
I did a quick inspection of him under the magnifying light but didn't see anything. I then checked my hands under the light. I had very, very small mites all over my hands. These were immature mites but still mites. You won't be able to see them crawling on the snake.
He got a warm soak for a few minutes. Then a warm soak in water with one drop of liquid detergent. After 30 minutes he got a soak in a weak tea Betadine solution.
This routine will happen every day for the next week. His enclosure was scrubbed and dried. I switched him to paper towels as substrate and treated the entire enclosure with Provent-A-Mite. This will be repeated every time I change the paper towels. Those paper towels will be bagged and placed in the freezer just like the old substrate was.
Here's what one of the little %#$%@!**^@#$#(use you imagination:D) looks like. This is using a 10X lens.
I have contacted the person I got the snake from to advise them to check there snakes.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//828/medium/mite.jpg

[Sonya610]

In my experience this usually mean only one thing, MITES!

Acks! Yeah I can see your point, it would be hard treating one or two but accidentally infecting ALL of your animals would be a nightmare!

Didn't you feel itchy and contagious after all of that? What do you do? Wash all your clothes in hot water and shower? Must make you paranoid about spreading it around.

I got Sarcoptic mange from one of my dogs once, I do a lot of rescue but don't quarantine, that was never a problem but one of my own went to the groomer and got it. Holy sheesh I was itching like crazy for 2-3 weeks. Mites are NOT fun at all!

Question how long is the mite life cycle? You had the snake 2 months and are just NOW seeing babies? Did the animal have dormant mite eggs or something? Or more like a tiny number of adult mites that suddenly had a bazillion babies making the outbreak noticeable?

[guidofatherof5]

I'm just glad it is confined to one snake. I thought it strange too that they didn't show up sooner.

[guidofatherof5]

Bump.

[joeysgreen]

If the snake only has a small population of mites then you likely won't find the problem until they reproduce. What you probably found was the new generation.

Mites are the most obvious problem caught in quarantine but far from the most insidious. Try getting rid of cryptosporidiosis, yellow fungus disease, inclusion body disease, paramyxovirus...

I'm always happy to see people with separate quarantine rooms. I recommend also having 2 fecals, 2 weeks apart prior to adding to your other snakes (if both are negative). A lot of the GI bugs are easy to treat, but very difficult if adding to a group in a naturalistic enclosure that can't be sanitized.

Ian

[BLUESIRTALIS]

READ THIS LINK BELOW. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD INFECT GARTER SNAKES, BUT THIS IS VERY SERIOUS FOR THE HOBBY RIGHT NOW.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Fforums %2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D220629%26page%3D8&ei=BcGEU9HLDOarsASFiYHQDA&usg=AFQjCNE5r5Bw8r-PQhD4F4_lcIH0JxsUlA&sig2=AMjli4UeRoOx-D8qjJHvyg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Fforums %2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D220629%26page%3D8&ei=BcGEU9HLDOarsASFiYHQDA&usg=AFQjCNE5r5Bw8r-PQhD4F4_lcIH0JxsUlA&sig2=AMjli4UeRoOx-D8qjJHvyg)

[guidofatherof5]

READ THIS LINK BELOW. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD INFECT GARTER SNAKES, BUT THIS IS VERY SERIOUS FOR THE HOBBY RIGHT NOW.

(http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Fforums %2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D220629%26page%3D8&ei=BcGEU9HLDOarsASFiYHQDA&usg=AFQjCNE5r5Bw8r-PQhD4F4_lcIH0JxsUlA&sig2=AMjli4UeRoOx-D8qjJHvyg)http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Fforums %2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D220629%26page%3D8&ei=BcGEU9HLDOarsASFiYHQDA&usg=AFQjCNE5r5Bw8r-PQhD4F4_lcIH0JxsUlA&sig2=AMjli4UeRoOx-D8qjJHvyg


UF researcher and colleagues discover possible deadly new snake virus » College of Veterinary Medicine » University of Florida (http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2012/07/19/uf-researcher-and-colleagues-discover-possible-deadly-new-snake-virus/)

[joeysgreen]

Yes, this disease can certainly affect gartersnakes. To our knowledge, it can affect all snakes. I do admire Dr. Jim Welhem. He gets to look for unknown virus's in herp's all day. The purpose of quarantine is to reduce the risk for all diseases, but a blood sample can be tested for paramyxovirus. PCR detects active infection, serology detects exposure. Unfortunately with gartersnakes, especially the young ones that might be new to your collection, their size can be prohibitive.

Ian

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, this disease can certainly affect gartersnakes. To our knowledge, it can affect all snakes. I do admire Dr. Jim Welhem. He gets to look for unknown virus's in herp's all day. The purpose of quarantine is to reduce the risk for all diseases, but a blood sample can be tested for paramyxovirus. PCR detects active infection, serology detects exposure. Unfortunately with gartersnakes, especially the young ones that might be new to your collection, their size can be prohibitive.

Ian


Due to the amount of blood needed for the test?

[chris-uk]

Due to the amount of blood needed for the test?

Almost certainly. That and the difficulty in drawing blood from garter scrubs.

[joeysgreen]

I can draw blood from anything, but the amount needed for the test is more than the animal can physically give in some cases. A safe blood draw is 10% of 10% of the body weight (blood volume is 10% body weight, and you can safely take 10% of that). The lab calls for 1ml of blood. Even though you can usually get away with a smaller sample, consider that if a snake weighs 10 grams, we can only take 0.1ml of blood (and once you see this volume compared to the size of the animal, even that seems like it's pushing it) .

If you get a new "scrub" as seems to be the term, it should have proved itself with a healthy quarantine before it's a size appropriate for sampling. However should they be consistent poor-doers, or die young, they can be sampled when larger or necropsied and samples sent for histopathology.

Ian

[guidofatherof5]

I can draw blood from anything, but the amount needed for the test is more than the animal can physically give in some cases. A safe blood draw is 10% of 10% of the body weight (blood volume is 10% body weight, and you can safely take 10% of that). The lab calls for 1ml of blood. Even though you can usually get away with a smaller sample, consider that if a snake weighs 10 grams, we can only take 0.1ml of blood (and once you see this volume compared to the size of the animal, even that seems like it's pushing it) .

If you get a new "scrub" as seems to be the term, it should have proved itself with a healthy quarantine before it's a size appropriate for sampling. However should they be consistent poor-doers, or die young, they can be sampled when larger or necropsied and samples sent for histopathology.

Ian

Thanks for the clarification.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

So the way i understand it is that this virus appears to be airborne correct?

[joeysgreen]

If I recall correctly, it can be both horizontal and vertically transmitted (via mother). Horizontal transmission can be pretty much any means, nasal/oral secretions, fecal/oral, male/female via mating.

Ian

[guidofatherof5]

If I recall correctly, it can be both horizontal and vertically transmitted (via mother). Horizontal transmission can be pretty much any means, nasal/oral secretions, fecal/oral, male/female via mating.

Ian

There's a couple terms I'm not familiar with.

Vertically transmitted infection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertically_transmitted_infection)

Horizontal disease transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_disease_transmission)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Yikes! I kind of scared to vend shows now!
If I recall correctly, it can be both horizontal and vertically transmitted (via mother). Horizontal transmission can be pretty much any means, nasal/oral secretions, fecal/oral, male/female via mating.

Ian

[joeysgreen]

Our local show is put on by the local herp club (ERAS). They have myself (AHT) do health checks on the Saturday morning. It's not a perfect system, but animals that are dehydrated, show signs of diarrhea, external parasites, illness, injury etc. are removed from the premises. Each table also has alcoholic hand sanitizer that is strongly encouraged before and after the handling of any animal. We also have strict (but hard to enforce) rules on being a captive bred only venue. My opinion is that any show promoter should take precautions to protect it's vendors and the public. Little Johnny's first snake should be a healthy one!

Additionally, for show vendors the ideal system is to once again quarantine show animals prior to returning to their reptile room. Most people skip this step, myself included due to the practicality of it. Nonetheless it is the safest way.