Shipping to Canada

[garterchick]

I got an inquiry about shipping one or more of my flame babies to Canada but it seems that I read in the past that that's illegal. Is this true?

[mustang]

i...dont think so ....i may be wrong...

[Barak666]

I don't know what are the laws on your side of the border, but for the Canadian borders there is not laws, permit or inspection needed. The only thing is about the shipping box who need to secure the animal well. Otherwise it is legal to import garters snakes from US. Hope it's answers (in part) your question.

And if you happen to be able to ship in Canada, I might consider buying one from you.

Mathieu

[infernalis]

Had this very same conversation with Scott Felzer, Boots wanted to get some morphs (He lives in Alberta) and it was going to be a logistical nightmare.

If you really want to know all that is involved, contact Scott, He can fill you in, Since no one else I know ships more garter snakes than him, He would be the perfect source for that information.

[ssssnakeluvr]

there's a breeder here in Salt Lake City that I asked about shipping to Canada. As long as it's not on the CITES llist, normal shipping procedures apply. He has an import/export permit.

here's his website, feel free to email him and ask.

BoaConstrictor.com | Home of Jeremy Stone Reptiles | Boa Constrictors and More (http://www.boaconstrictor.com/)

[ConcinusMan]

When I looked into it, the cost was going to be over $150 compared to just $30 to ship within the U.S.

As far as legalities go, if you were to follow legal procedures, it's more difficult, red-tape and expense wise, to ship a snake into the state of Washington then it would be to ship to Canada! But as you know, it will be opened at the border and their will be delays. Getting a snake to someone overnight, crossing the border, isn't going to happen. IF all goes well it could take up to 3 days, and it won't be cheap.

[garterchick]

I contacted Scott and once I had the info from him I decided that shipping to Canada wasn't for me, as much as I would like to expand my "customer" base. It sounds somewhat complicated and expensive to do it right.
Sorry for those of you interested, maybe a Canadian breeder can be found?

[tspuckler]

I've shipped to Canada. An Export Permit is needed. You have to work with Federal Agents in order to get one. Snakes need to be shipped out of a designated export port (I believe there are six in the United States). There they are subject to inspection by Fish and Wildlife Authorities.

Exporting is not worth doing yourself if the price of what you're selling is less than a couple thousand dollars. It also takes weeks (if not months) to go through the permit process. Snakes must be shipped via airlines (which is more expensive than FedEx) and must have at least two flights (one to the export port and one or more to the snake's final destination). I do not remember what the permit costs, but there's a fee for it as well as a fee for your inspection in cases where the snakes reach the export port and F&W has to come in at a non-9:00 to 5:00 time slot to check them.

Shipping snakes out of the country on your own accord is more than a little bit illegal and can result in serious consequences - even if it's a common snake like an Eastern Garter. There are some brokers who can export sankes for you, but there's a fee involved as well as two shipments (one to the broker and one from the broker to the person receiving the snake).

[ADEF]

I have a friend that lives in new york., What would be the procedure if I Ordered some snakes to his place and then drove down to pick them up. I live in ontario and this seems to be the only way to get Garter morphs up here.

[Boots]

To be honest, when I looked into it, it turned out it was easier to import from Europe then it was from the States. Not sure why, but that was just want I figured out.

Jason

[garterchick]

I have a friend that lives in new york., What would be the procedure if I Ordered some snakes to his place and then drove down to pick them up. I live in ontario and this seems to be the only way to get Garter morphs up here.


I guess that you're then responsible to get the required permits.

[ConcinusMan]

That's the thing. According to Canadian law it seems that most (no protected snakes such as T.s. tetrataenia) garter snakes can cross freely into Canada without breaking laws. It's coming out of Canada where it gets tricky. And of course as long as the snake is not wildlife, such as a non-native CB morph, you wouldn't be breaking U.S. law either.

[Tyrel26]

Its too bad it so hard to ship between Canada and the US, I would like to be able to get some of the nice maritimes we have here into the hands of some of the breeders I've seen on this forum. (assuming any were interested lol)

[garterchick]

That's the thing. According to Canadian law it seems that most (no protected snakes such as T.s. tetrataenia) garter snakes can cross freely into Canada without breaking laws. It's coming out of Canada where it gets tricky. And of course as long as the snake is not wildlife, such as a non-native CB morph, you wouldn't be breaking U.S. law either.

I guess then I don't understand why shipping is so difficult.

[tspuckler]

I guess then I don't understand why shipping is so difficult.

The person who you replied to stated that there's no issue with snakes coming into Canada - it's leaving Canada where there are issues.

The same is basically true in the United States. Bringing animals into the country isn't much of an issue - exporting them is.

I suppose there's reasons why there are export laws, but that's another topic. What I was trying to get across in my initial post was not to let someone from another country talk you into shipping them reptiles. If you do not have an Export Permit it's illegal and part of the penalty may be that you will no longer be able to keep reptiles (not to mention the fines, court costs, lawyer fees, having a criminal record, etc.).

There is no risk to the person receiving the snakes. All the risk is on the person shipping them. Again, these are the rules - I don't necessarily like them, but as a breeder you should know them.

[garterchick]

I had allready decided not to do it, just trying to understand it.

[ADEF]

My plan is to order the snakes to new york and pick them up. I would call those at the border and give 2 or 3 days advance call that I would be returning to Canada with the snakes. I would have to pay a fee to have a specalist check the animals I was brining in but I do not believe I need a permit for garters.

I hope it is this simple.

So many nice garters and none that I can find in Ontario

[garterchick]

Well, if you can figure out how to do it legally by picking them up in the US, let me know. I'd love to be able to bring my flames into Canada, I just don't want to get in trouble for it.

[Spankenstyne]

Here's a helpful cut & pasted rundown as written up by Roy Stockwell regarding import export to & from Canada:
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Below is information Compiled by Roy Stockwell on the importation and exportation of reptiles to and from Canada.

US IMPORT/EXPORT INFO
For Americans Exporting from the U.S.A. (Canadians should be familiar with these steps too)
All animals leaving or entering the USA must be inspected by US fish & wildlife This is generally done at what is known as a designated port (http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Designated_Ports.htm) . If you are not located at a designated port you must contact your local branch of USF&W and arrange an inspection. At this point a document called a 3-177 (http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/3-177-1.pdf)will be completed. It is a declaration of import/export of wildlife. This must be done with all animals regardless of whether they are listed under the Washington Convention (CITES).
It is also possible and fairly common to have animals shipped first to a designated port for inspection and clearance, before heading on to the consignee. This is done when the shipper or recipient in the US is not near a designated port. It can however, sometimes get complicated and expensive because a broker can be required to transfer the shipment and arrange for fish&wildlife inspection. This is especially true if different air carriers are involved since Airlines are not obliged to move your cargo, especially into the hands of a competitive Airline. So if you need to hire a broker this can mean that your animals are being put into the hands of a middle man who might very well hate herps(or love them and steal your shipment). It's a bit scary to have someone opening your animals in the middle of their journey to your customer.

If the animals are CITES listed and are Appendix 2 you need to apply To the US department of the interior/F&W for a CITES export permit. This must then be stamped by a wildlife agent at the time of the inspection otherwise the permit is not valid...
You will also now need (since I think bout 97) a US fish and wildlife IMPORT EXPORT license (http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-3.pdf)... you need to apply for it. It is $100.00us and is good for only one year. If you are not getting your inspection at a Designated port, but are using a border port (http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Canadian_Border_Ports.htm) you may also be required to apply for what's called an "Exception to Designated Port"permit (http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-2.pdf). It's now also $100US bucks and is good for 2 years.

For Canadians taking animals into or out of the USA
If you are taking animals across the border in a car, you need to apply for and obtain this US fish and wildlife IMPORT EXPORT license (http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-3.pdf)... and yes also the exception from designated port permit if you have more than just a few animals.

You must phone US F&W in advance and arrange for an inspection 48 hrs before you cross. An agent will be dispatched to the crossing of your choice(See the list of Border Ports (http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Canadian_Border_Ports.htm)) . You will be charged for the inspection. $55US standard, more if its CITES or outside of business hours.A 3-177 declaration will need to be presented at the time of the inspection. I recommend pre ordering this form from USF&W and filling them out ahead of time. It makes the wildlife agents happy and you are more likely to know the Scientific names, which must be shown on the declaration. It's also helpful to take a book with pictures to help verify the species.

If you are taking a lot of stuff into the US for personal delivery or to fly out of an American airport it may be considered a commercial shipment and this will also require a Customs Broker...I use PBB. (Peace Bridge Brokers)

Also, if you are taking CITES listed animals out of Canada you must first apply for and obtain a Canadian CITES Export permit. You will be required to prove legal origin to be granted this permit. Before crossing the border, you must first stop on the Canadian side and get Customs to validate it, otherwise it is not a legal CITES permit.

A complete list, with prices, of US Fish & Wildlife forms including CITES applications, licenses etc, can be found here (http://www.fws.gov/forms/display.cfm?number1=200)

And info , printable permit applications and prices also can be found Here (http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Regional_Permit_Offices.htm)

[Spankenstyne]

Additional info & links again as written up by Roy Stockwell:

General Info & explanations for US export/import
http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/CommWil...portExport.htm (http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/CommWildlifeImportExport.htm)

http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Info_Im..._Exporters.htm (http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Info_Importers_Exporters.htm)

Inspection rates
http://www.fws.gov/le/AboutLE/Propos...eIncreases.htm (http://www.fws.gov/le/AboutLE/ProposedInspectionFeeIncreases.htm)
http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/2010F...ationChart.pdf (http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/2010FeeCalculationChart.pdf)
US CITES Permit application for Captive bred
http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-24.pdf

[guidofatherof5]

Great job explaining and listing information. Thanks for taking the time to do so.