A Brutal End

[guidofatherof5]

I just was on the way to take my son to dinner when I saw a man in his front yard killing a garter snake(probably radix). It appeared he was standing on the snakes head and pulling on its body. To make things even worse it looked like his 4-5 year old son was standing by dad observing the whole thing. I can just hear the dad. "Son, every time you see a snake you kill it. Step on its head like this........ "
I was livid and saddened but knew my words would mean nothing to this guy and I would probably end up in jail if I confronted him. I don't think my boss the Sheriff would think that was a good career move on my part.
In Iowa, garter snakes are afforded "NO PROTECTION"
The ignorance and brutality of people seems to be unending.

[infernalis]

Sad story Steve.

[indigoman]

We must all be ambassadors to chip away at the ignorance and fear.

[Mommy2many]

In Iowa, garter snakes are afforded "NO PROTECTION"



Not true, Steve.

I happen to know of a very special place in Iowa where the garter snakes are treated like family and are afforded every comfort and type of protection that can be awarded. This magical place for our garters is the T Radix Ranch. It may not be everywhere but it does exist.

[infernalis]

It's like a Radix Magic Kingdom. ;)

[ssssnakeluvr]

that sucks!!! I can charge them with animal cruelty or they can be charged under the state law that makes it illegal to indiscriminently kill ANY reptile, only exception is a rattlesnake in your yard.

[Mommy2many]

Go for it, Don!

[drache]

oh that gets me angry
forget about protection of a particular species - this sounds like pure and simple animal cruelty to me, the kind that teaches a kid to disconnect to a point where psychopathic behavior seems like an okay thing to engage in

[guidofatherof5]

What a very nice thing to say. Thank you.
I try to do what I can and what I should. A few months ago a member(Mustang) if I remember correctly said I should advertise the fact I remove/rescue garter snakes. That has always been an idea I've had. The problem is I have no place to keep 10,000+ radixes and if I did what would I do with them. I couldn't afford to feed or house them. Where would I release them that wouldn't upset the nature in that area.
Unfortunately, The world they live in is mainly against them and in the face of those great odds they thrive and multiply. The best I can do is open my house to the few I can help and give them a good life. In return I learn so much about them and admire them for what they are.

[Mommy2many]

Steve,

That's all we can ask of ourselves.

[Tyrel26]

I too have thought of advertising for garter removal but as you said after a point where do you put the snakes...Im sure you would have no problem with me sending you a few of these nice maritime garters tho lol

have you considered just having an open house kinda thing? try to educate the kids in your area. it may be too late to change some old ways of thinking but if you can reach the kids they can scream and yell and cause all kinds of trouble for their parents if they knew they were hurting an animal they shouldn't. My dad wouldn't even kill a mouse around me as a kid cause he knew how much trouble id make for him about it lol
(if you already do this and i am unaware of it, forget what i said lol)


people do the cruel things they do mostly out of fear and lack of understanding, replace these things with appreciation and information and then you can truly make a difference.

[guidofatherof5]

I too have thought of advertising for garter removal but as you said after a point where do you put the snakes...Im sure you would have no problem with me sending you a few of these nice maritime garters tho lol

have you considered just having an open house kinda thing? try to educate the kids in your area. it may be too late to change some old ways of thinking but if you can reach the kids they can scream and yell and cause all kinds of trouble for their parents if they knew they were hurting an animal they shouldn't. My dad wouldn't even kill a mouse around me as a kid cause he knew how much trouble id make for him about it lol
(if you already do this and i am unaware of it, forget what i said lol)


people do the cruel things they do mostly out of fear and lack of understanding, replace these things with appreciation and information and then you can truly make a difference.

Neat idea and one I will have to think about. I usually get a couple visitors a month that want a tour of my snakes. That's just from word of mouth. One of the other deputies took a tour with his wife. She now wants to help me on a feed day. She said she had no idea garter snakes were so cool. She thought they were always wild and could never be calm. When I opened one of my enclosures where my big females live and they came out and on me she was amazed. It was interesting to me as my snakes are usually wary of new faces. This time they didn't have a problem with these people.

[Tyrel26]

Most of the people that have came to visit me think of snakes as slimy and gross and evil....when they arrive; when i go to take one out they nearly run away but as i tell them about the snakes and how each has it own personality and so on, they become more and more interested. Before long I have people coming to visit my snakes and Im the one they take a quick look at lol.

Its a very basic instinct to fear what we don't understand, sadly this often results in death. As much as I hate to see someone hurt an innocent animal for no reason (i am a firm believer in hunting for food) I know that it will do far more good to explain to that person that his/her actions were unnecessary and that animal will cause no harm.

I work with a guy that is terrified of snakes and he told me about a huge garter he seen on the road that was at least 3 feet long (he said 4-5 so i figured about 3 lol) and he turned his car in order to kill the snake and then backed up to hit it again. My first thought was to punch this guy in the head and start yelling at him about being evil and stupid but instead I told him that he had killed an old female snake that was most likely carrying a full batch of babies...I could tell that he felt really bad and really stupid. I have since taught this guy a lot about garters and he seems very interested, he actually wants to go out herping with me sometime.

[guidofatherof5]

Most of the people that have came to visit me think of snakes as slimy and gross and evil....when they arrive; when i go to take one out they nearly run away but as i tell them about the snakes and how each has it own personality and so on, they become more and more interested. Before long I have people coming to visit my snakes and Im the one they take a quick look at lol.

Its a very basic instinct to fear what we don't understand, sadly this often results in death. As much as I hate to see someone hurt an innocent animal for no reason (i am a firm believer in hunting for food) I know that it will do far more good to explain to that person that his/her actions were unnecessary and that animal will cause no harm.

I work with a guy that is terrified of snakes and he told me about a huge garter he seen on the road that was at least 3 feet long (he said 4-5 so i figured about 3 lol) and he turned his car in order to kill the snake and then backed up to hit it again. My first thought was to punch this guy in the head and start yelling at him about being evil and stupid but instead I told him that he had killed an old female snake that was most likely carrying a full batch of babies...I could tell that he felt really bad and really stupid. I have since taught this guy a lot about garters and he seems very interested, he actually wants to go out herping with me sometime.


Very nice.


My biggest problem is the people who won't listen at all. They, with a angry look on their face says "I don't care if they are harmless, I kill them anyway" I work with a lot of those people. They do not believe any snake can have a redeeming quality.

[Tyrel26]

Thats why we have to reach the kids now. Even if an old dog can learn new tricks, its still easier to house train a puppy.

[guidofatherof5]

Thats why we have to reach the kids now. Even if an old dog can learn new tricks, its still easier to house train a puppy.

I couldn't agree more.

[infernalis]

They do not believe any snake can have a redeeming quality.


What a shallow existance...don't even know what they are missing.:rolleyes::mad:

[Laura]

Steve you should start up a charity to help you with your rescue program, I'd be willing to donate :) GARTER PROTECTION LEAGUE!

[Nafun]

I'm sickened by the way people treat snakes, but casual cruelty in front of a small child doesn't always create a new generation of reptile haters.

Watching my mother club to death a garter in the back yard, and watching my uncle shoot turtles turned me into a reptile lover. It amazes me that people would rather have mice in their house than snakes in their yard.

[gartermorphs]

I'm sickened by the way people treat snakes, but casual cruelty in front of a small child doesn't always create a new generation of reptile haters.

Watching my mother club to death a garter in the back yard, and watching my uncle shoot turtles turned me into a reptile lover. It amazes me that people would rather have mice in their house than snakes in their yard.



same my love of reptiles came from my dad trying to kill a snake and me running and picking it up with bare hand and showing him that it wont hurt you. I love them because i knew that alot of people are afraid of them and kill them because they are so misunderstood.

[charles parenteau]

Same thing happened to me few years ago in a sanctuary* the guy kill a gravid garter snake right in front of his son and he told him snake don't deserve to live and this only few seconds after to get out of their car.

I took few minutes to tell his son ....do you want me to show you another bad exemple ....Do you want me to do the same thing to your dad???
I was very mad!But I tell to the dad ,you don't deserve to take a walk in a sanctuary go take a walk somewhere else but not here and I drive him to his car ...He was lucky ....needless to say ....

Hope his son learn something on that day.....

[Hollis_Steed]

My hat is off to you! Good job!


Same thing happened to me few years ago in a sanctuary* the guy kill a gravid garter snake right in front of his son and he told him snake don't deserve to live and this only few seconds after to get out of their car.

I took few minutes to tell his son ....do you want me to show you another bad exemple ....Do you want me to do the same thing to your dad???
I was very mad!But I tell to the dad ,you don't deserve to take a walk in a sanctuary go take a walk somewhere else but not here and I drive him to his car ...He was lucky ....needless to say ....

Hope his son learn something on that day.....

[guidofatherof5]

I can't seem to get this incident out of my head. I know that it repeats itself daily in my town and in towns all over the nation, probably the world. Today, I remembered a photo I saw in a book and thought how simple the concept was. I thought I would share that photo and text. This is from a book called "A Gathering Of Garter Snake" Text and Photos by Biaca Lavies. I recommend this book to everyone. Here's a link to get your own copy:http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0525450998/sr=/qid=/ref=olp_tab_all?ie=UTF8&coliid=&me=&qid=&sr=&seller=&colid=
She doesn't mind the snake and the snake doen't mind her. The two get along and live. Look at her face. I see the joy she gets from George. Just a common garter snake and the two benefit from their meeting.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/simple.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/simple1.jpg

[Quibble]

Anyone that could brutally kill an animal just because "they dont care" or any reason of the sort are disgusting. It's like they're a completely different breed of person, completely seperated from the natural world and their place in it, and dont have a need to see it any other way. Maybe they'll be reincarnated as the next helpless victim and learn something. --Not saying everyone has to love nature, but it would be healthy to at least recognise it as important.

This old lady story is awesome though, I wish my grandma were that cool!

[infernalis]

I know I told this one before, but it's been a couple years, so here it is again....

in 2007 a new neighbor moved in across the street from me, we met and started talking, and I told him I was "into snakes'.

Next day he opens up the barn that sat empty for years and saw a baby milk snake (Lampropeltis Triangulum Triangulum) so he chopped it into 3 pieces and THEN called me over.

"Wayne, what kind of snake is this" I was so angry, so I said "a dead one"

Then I told him it was a harmless hatch-ling that had most likely never even taken it's first meal.

So I gather up the 3 chunks of snake, and he asked me what I was doing, I looked him in the eye and said I was taking it over home for a proper burial.

He said "it's just a snake" and I replied "I'm just a human" and walked away.

we don't speak now.

[Quibble]

He said "it's just a snake" and I replied "I'm just a human" and walked away.

GOOD FOR YOU Wayne! I'll bet he had some feelings of guilt after that. Probably why he wont speak to you. :p

[infernalis]

I don't do well with neighbors anyways.

[prattypus]

Makes my stomache churn. My sister in law is terrified of snakes- but she'll call me or my brother to remove one from the yard. Her exact words- I hate the bastards, but it's my issue, not theirs.

[ConcinusMan]

Anyone that could brutally kill an animal just because "they dont care" or any reason of the sort are disgusting. It's like they're a completely different breed of person, completely seperated from the natural world and their place in it, and dont have a need to see it any other way.


I think that's a bit too general. Some people love the outdoors and nature in general but have a fear or loathing of certain creatures. Spiders and snakes being two of the most common. I can understand the emotional response involved in many cases. I don't mind most spiders and I certainly love snakes but the second I lay eyes on a possum, I am overwhelmed by intense loathing and an urge to kill it. I don't know why. I just can't stand them. This emotion overtakes all logic. I must kill it even though it makes no sense. I'll even chase it down to kill it. Fortunately for the possum, most of them are able to get to safety before I get a chance. The last possum family of 4 that crossed my yard at 2am were out in the open. They weren't so lucky. Once they are dead, I kind of feel bad about it but the next time I see one, there it is again, the urge to kill it. I have no control over it.

[Hollis_Steed]

You need help.

[ConcinusMan]

If I was constantly encountering possums in my daily life, I would agree.

[infernalis]

You need help.


If I was constantly encountering possums in my daily life, I would agree.


I don't think he means you need help killing them.:(

[guidofatherof5]

So, 2am and you couldn't have closed your door and gone back in the house. It's not like they invaded your house and you were protecting yourself.
Left alone, they leave the area. No harm on fool.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh yes, I know. Like I said, the urge to kill them on sight defies all logic. You don't understand. No harm isn't an option when I see one. It must die. I don't understand it myself. They just provoke such a deep loathing in me that just letting them go on with their business is not an option. I simply cannot stand the sight of them, and the logic to let them go on unmolested and unharmed makes perfect sense. That sense goes right out the window the second I see one face to face.

Dang squirrels invade my house, destroy my landscaping, my plants, come in my house, chew on my house and door jams, I mean, they are destructive little boogers, and yet I brought this on myself by feeding them. Logic says I should, let's see, how do I put this delicately, "reduce their numbers" and/or stop feeding them. Instead they have a steady supply of sunflower seeds outside, nest boxes to reproduce in, and I feed them peanuts at my door. Not only do I let them live, I actually support them as they do harm.

Possums do no harm in most cases. Sometimes they just scavenge seeds dropped from my bird feeders. Sometimes they sleep under my outdoor shed. No biggie. But if I happen see one crossing my yard, or a street, or anywhere.. well, you know. I'm like Jeckyll and Hyde. My potion is the mere sight of a possum.

I mean, look at this thing. It gives me the willies bigtime. I'm getting chills and grinding my teeth just looking at pictures of a possum. I simply must bash it's skull in. (not as easy as it looks, to kill one with blunt force trauma, BTW) I don't know why I react that way. Weird huh? I can imagine something similar happens with some people when they see a snake. My reaction is not based on fear, just very deep loathing. So you see, my killing a possum is like a reflex and does not reflect my overall feelings toward nature and the animals in it. Just possums as far as I know. Just the images literally give me goose bumps. If it were live and moving, in front of me it would be even worse. I wouldn't go the other direction. I'd instantly find the nearest object (rock, gun, club, whatever) and chase that sucker. If I caught up to it, I'd shoot it and/or beat it to death, and feel much exhileration and satisfaction in watching it take it's last breath. Then later, when faced with a carcass to dispose of, I'd feel guilty for killing an animal unnecessarily.:o
http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/opossum-50391.jpghttp://nuisancebgone.storeblogs.com/files/2009/07/opossum.jpg

[Spankenstyne]

Steve, all anyone can do is try. Making the effort and keep educating as best we can won't work a lot of the time but it can and does make a small difference. One which hopefully then gets paid forward with someone else also doing the same.
Luckily up here we've had the gov't protect some den sites, and the Reptile Society up in Edmonton donated the funds and time to have an educational sign put up at a site. Small strides but forward progress nonetheless.

Keep up the good work & keep fighting the good fight. It's always worth it to at least say something, it might not make a difference at the moment but maybe at least plants the seed that it's not ok to kill snakes.

[infernalis]

Oh yes, I know. Like I said, the urge to kill them on sight defies all logic. You don't understand. No harm isn't an option when I see one. It must die. I don't understand it myself. They just provoke such a deep loathing in me that just letting them go on with their business is not an option. I simply cannot stand the sight of them, and the logic to let them go on unmolested and unharmed makes perfect sense. That sense goes right out the window the second I see one face to face.




You are looking at this all wrong, If I wanted to I can find a zillion scary snake pictures......What you are saying to us on a forum full of animal lovers defies logic Richard.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/oliveoilsnake/furry%20friends/IMG_1907.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/oliveoilsnake/furry%20friends/IMG_1904.jpg
:http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/oliveoilsnake/furry%20friends/IMG_1821.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/oliveoilsnake/furry%20friends/IMG_1828.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/oliveoilsnake/furry%20friends/IMG_1831.jpghttp://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq240/oliveoilsnake/furry%20friends/IMG_1832.jpg

CNar5gvqHxI

[Tyrel26]

I have been hunting since I was old enough to walk (started out hunting with my father before anyone comments on a toddler with a gun lol) and I still hunt. I hunt for food and I use as much as possible from the animals I take. There is no animal I hate or just have to kill, I respect the right for all animals to live. If I find a insect in my house I release it outside even though some of them give me cold shivers lol.

I am not trying to be insulting by what I am about to say but if you do have an urge to kill that you cannot control you really do need help. Take your whole argument and at the end post a picture of a person of a different race...thats the same argument that many racists use "just look at them...ugly....useless....have to kill them" No I am not trying to compare you to a racist, I am just saying if they say they cannot control the urge to kill people of a different race does it make it ok?

I think there is a deeper meaning behind this "urge" than you realize and if you truly cannot resist killing them you may want to seek help.

This is just plain scary

QUOTE "feel much exhileration and satisfaction in watching it take it's last breath"

[infernalis]

I have been hunting since I was old enough to walk (started out hunting with my father before anyone comments on a toddler with a gun lol) and I still hunt. I hunt for food and I use as much as possible from the animals I take. There is no animal I hate or just have to kill, I respect the right for all animals to live. If I find a insect in my house I release it outside even though some of them give me cold shivers lol.

I am not trying to be insulting by what I am about to say but if you do have an urge to kill that you cannot control you really do need help. Take your whole argument and at the end post a picture of a person of a different race...thats the same argument that many racists use "just look at them...ugly....useless....have to kill them" No I am not trying to compare you to a racist, I am just saying if they say they cannot control the urge to kill people of a different race does it make it ok?

I think there is a deeper meaning behind this "urge" than you realize and if you truly cannot resist killing them you may want to seek help.

This is just plain scary

QUOTE "feel much exhileration and satisfaction in watching it take it's last breath"


That was an excellent post, and I agree fully to all of it.

[Tyrel26]

Thank you

[Hollis_Steed]

Well said Tyrel26.:)

[shaunyboy]

I think that's a bit too general. Some people love the outdoors and nature in general but have a fear or loathing of certain creatures. Spiders and snakes being two of the most common. I can understand the emotional response involved in many cases. I don't mind most spiders and I certainly love snakes but the second I lay eyes on a possum, I am overwhelmed by intense loathing and an urge to kill it. I don't know why. I just can't stand them. This emotion overtakes all logic. I must kill it even though it makes no sense. I'll even chase it down to kill it. Fortunately for the possum, most of them are able to get to safety before I get a chance. The last possum family of 4 that crossed my yard at 2am were out in the open. They weren't so lucky. Once they are dead, I kind of feel bad about it but the next time I see one, there it is again, the urge to kill it. I have no control over it.


ive never heard as much crap in a very long time.you really expect me to believe that you have no control over your reaction when you see a possum.grow up mate or better still grow a pair,act like a real man.you go about killing these little defenseless creatures then claim to have no control over it.so what your saying if a group of kids were near by and you saw a possum you would run over and club it to death in front of these kids ? i looked in your signature and you appear to be an educated guy with a decent interest in herpetolgy.so why on earth would you allow yourself to act this way ? more to the point why would you write the gory details on a garter forum where animal lovers and kids read the posts ?

my apologys to all other forum members for my post.i am usually a polite,mannerable,helpfull person.this guys post just pressed all the wrong buttons in me.i am still trying to work out,did he post it for attention,effect or more scarily is this really how he is ? if so i wouldnt want to live next door to the guy.i have always believed that there is no place for violence in society.with the one exception,to defend you or your family against an attacker.i am not a violent person but witnessing the unneccesary killing of a creature in this way would cause me to break a rule of a lifetime.
cheers shaun

[ConcinusMan]

I don't expect you to believe anything. It is what it is and it doesn't matter if you believe it. I don't like it any more than you do.

[mtolypetsupply]

I've found that the best hunters only make reluctant and reverent kills.

That said, ConcinnusMan, I have to applaud your bravery for being so honest about your feelings when I'm sure you could anticipate a negative reaction. I don't agree with your stance, but it is refreshing to see someone so honest in the face of probable and ongoing criticism.

I have a friend who has a very similar loathing of possums. Hers also extends to raccoons and foxes. To her, they are Kill On Sight. Her loathing and killing of these animals stems from keeping chickens. They do steal eggs and eat chickens. She needs to protect her livestock.

I also know some cranberry farmers. They feel the same way about deer. Deer come into the bogs, lay down on the bushes, and kill the bushes. The farmers are given permits to hunt them year round, as they damage crops. I do feel the farmers have the right to protect their crops.

I feel the same way about mosquitos. And any other bug in my house. I do not take spiders outside. I do not release bugs to their native habitat. I do kill them and don't see anything wrong with that. Spiders can bite, and cause infection. Flies are dirty. Mosquitos bite and spread disease. I don't bother them outside, so I don't have any qualms about killing the few I find in my house.

ConcinnusMan, if they aren't vermin to you, killing your livestock or damaging crops or spreading disease, I can't understand the Kill On Sight mentality. However, I do thank you for being so bold as to tell your truth.

:)

[ConcinusMan]

It's not exactly a mentality. I don't know why I react that way. Its different than a hate for a creature that builds up over time because they are destroying your crops, or hate that is taught. Honestly, possums have never done anything to make me hate them, except exist.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the reaction is like an instinct to squint when the sun is in your eyes. It just happens and I have no say in the matter.

In that way, it is a lot like how some people react to snakes and that was the whole point in telling everyone about it. And everyone knows, intense therapy is the only way anyone can overcome something like this. You can talk to them 'till you're blue in the face, educate them about snakes, etc., and most of the time it won't make any difference. It would be like trying to convince someone to NOT shiver when they are cold and then getting angry and insulting at them for not being able to do it.

[Kevinh583]

I don't think people are born with a hatred towards an animal. It develops either through negative experience or because of fear. I absolutely hate cats (though I do still posses enough self control to not kill every cat I see). However, friends and neighbors know I'm the person to call if their cat needs to be put to sleep with a lead injection.

I think I developed this because when I was about 4 yrs old a neighborhood cat killed some cute and cuddly pet ducklings of mine. I remember actually roaming through the neighborhood with a big stick in a quest for revenge. Maybe your uncontrollable hatred for possums is the result of a traumatic childhood experience. A psychologist or hypnotherapist could probably help you out if it is as out of control as you say.

[GartersRock]

I wouldn't go the other direction. I'd instantly find the nearest object (rock, gun, club, whatever) and chase that sucker. If I caught up to it, I'd shoot it and/or beat it to death, and feel much exhileration and satisfaction in watching it take it's last breath.


Ok... Now not that I am comparing people to animals... But you literally have no control over these feelings? So if a serial killer has the same feelings and can't control them. Does that make it ok or normal AT ALL?
If someone had these feelings towards a human. Or even say a dog. Wouldn't you expect them to control it?

[ConcinusMan]

Like I said before, I don't see possums often enough to bother with therapy. I think the last time it happened was about 8 years ago.

BTW, I really dislike cats too. Pretty much for the same reasons you do. As a kid, I had one cat. I also raised wild baby birds, pigeons, cockatiels, and of course, garter snakes. They just don't mix. The possum thing is totally different. It's more like a reflex. In some cases it's the same thing with people and snakes so don't make snap judgements about what kind of person they are.

[GartersRock]

If I had a pet possum that I loved very much and it was in front of you. Would you come after me to kill him/her? I am curious as to how out of control these kinds of feelings people have really are...

[ConcinusMan]

I would expect that I would probably know about your pet before you put it in my face, and avoid the situation altogether. Or maybe, like I've done with "charming" snakes, if your possum was all that charming, maybe you could help me overcome it.

[GartersRock]

But if you didn't? :D I am not trying to stir anything at all. I am just curious.

[ConcinusMan]

Hard to say. I've never met anyone who had a pet possum. I can tell you for sure, I wouldn't like seeing it, especially if it looked me in the eye. I think I'd lose it.

[guidofatherof5]

Seek help. Life shouldn't be lived this way.:)

[Kevinh583]

This is a bit off the topic of possum hatred, but I am curious how the snake lovers on this forum feel about venomous snakes. Specifically how do you deal with venomous snakes around your house? For people with kids/outdoor pets does your love of snakes conflict with your desire to protect your kids/pets?

Even though I am growing quite fond of my new garter friend I must confess I still would not look to kindly upon a cottonmouth or copperhead hanging around my house.

[ConcinusMan]

I respect venomous snakes for what they are, and like all snakes, I admire them. I lived near Little Valley, CA for a short time as a teen and I had a 5 foot rattlesnake that lived under my porch. When it was just me, I would expect him to be there ON my porch sunning himself every morning. He really wasn't a bother and I would simply brush him off the porch with a broom and go about my business. Later, I adopted a dog so obviously the snake had to go. I caught him and took him over the next hill about 1/4 mile and released him. I know you wouldn't want it hanging around your house, but if at all possible, I would have it removed alive and well.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

if a venomous snake is hanging around, there's no reason to kill it. Relocate it.

[infernalis]

if a venomous snake is hanging around, there's no reason to kill it. Relocate it.


Word!

If the possum bothers you that much, relocate it.

If you cannot control yourself, ask someone else to relocate it.

[Mommy2many]

A living being should not be killed just be killed. We all have our place here and if its presence is a nuisance or a threat, either remove yourself or relocate the animal.

I don't like spiders much and have said so, yet I will not kill one. I try my best to put them outside if at all possible. If they are outside, I respect the fact that that is where they live and they have as much a right to be there as I do.

We all need to take a step back and learn our place in the grand scheme of things. We are not necessarily perched at the top.

[Lovok]

Very nice.


My biggest problem is the people who won't listen at all. They, with a angry look on their face says "I don't care if they are harmless, I kill them anyway" I work with a lot of those people. They do not believe any snake can have a redeeming quality.


My former sister-in-law is like this. Whenever I'd post something on my Facebook page about Scylla, she'd come off with "The only good snake is a DEAD ONE! KILL IT!!", and "That's DISGUSTING! Where's the shovel?", sometimes even worse. And yes, she'd use caps for emphasis. I tried to explain, to educate, and mentioned others who were scared at first then realized she's harmless, all to no avail.

So, when I'd finally had the last straw, I let my anger take over, and when she'd post stuff about how baby bunnies were in her yard, I'd say "WOW! Great snake food!" When she posted a picture of one of her friend's new baby, I posted "Aaw, it's all wrinkly and scrunched up like an old man....now, how many weeks old are they supposed to be before their eyes open?" Finally, when she made mention of her cat, I said "Cats are sneaky, temperamental, unpredictable, evil, and they walk all through their own sh*t before jumping up and walking all over YOU, tables where you serve food, and not to mention their mouths have more filth than a public bathroom floor. They torture what should be their food, and then not even eat it. The only good cat is a DEAD cat. DROWN IT!!"

Of course, I didn't actually mean any of that stuff (well, maybe some of the stuff about cats...), and it could be construed as me sinking to her level, but her unnecessarily rude remarks about my choice of pets stopped, which was my goal anyway.

Sometimes, and with certain people, you really just have to let them know in no uncertain terms they're being unreasonable, irrational douche bags.

[ConcinusMan]

Word!

If the possum bothers you that much, relocate it.

If you cannot control yourself, ask someone else to relocate it.



A living being should not be killed just be killed. We all have our place here and if its presence is a nuisance or a threat, either remove yourself or relocate the animal.

I don't like spiders much and have said so, yet I will not kill one. I try my best to put them outside if at all possible. If they are outside, I respect the fact that that is where they live and they have as much a right to be there as I do.

We all need to take a step back and learn our place in the grand scheme of things. We are not necessarily perched at the top.

You two have obviously not heard a word I said. You totally missed the point. Once again, I totally agree with where you are coming from but that means nothing when I am actually face to face with a possum.

[infernalis]

I have been trying to understand your affliction for a couple days now, all I really can say is some things are better kept to yourself and not put out on a public bulletin board for examination by folks that will react in a negative way.

Then in your attempts to defend yourself, you just keep putting more and more gruesome details in your posts, effectively digging the hole deeper and deeper.

This is just an observation and in no way meant to be disrespectful.

[Quibble]

I have been trying to understand your affliction for a couple days now, all I really can say is some things are better kept to yourself and not put out on a public bulletin board for examination by folks that will react in a negative way.

Then in your attempts to defend yourself, you just keep putting more and more gruesome details in your posts, effectively digging the hole deeper and deeper.

This is just an observation and in no way meant to be disrespectful.

I agree with Wayne: No disrespect, but be aware of your audience before you 'Submit Reply'.

[Stefan-A]

I agree with ConcinnusMan. Not with what he does (you need to look past that part, it distracts you from the real issue), but with the idea that hatred, much like phobias, tends to be blind and at the point when it's triggered, logic usually goes right out the window. Don't think you're not capable of the same sort of reaction. In fact, based on what I've read recently, I'd say that most, if not all of you, could fairly easily be conditioned to do the same things to another human.

Make no mistake about it, it's no excuse for any behavior and I don't think it was ever presented as such.

As for him choosing his words and venue more carefully, I think that would have been a good idea.

[infernalis]

I for one agree very much with Stefan, and would like to apologize to Richard if I went too far overboard with any of my replies.

At some point the varied personalities of a group this large is going to create some form of disagreement.

The beauty of it is that one can review the many different viewpoints and possibly see thing in a different light by the time the discussion is concluded.

In a nutshell, I think the point he was trying to make is that when we see someone hacking a snake to bits is that in some instances, no amount of "educating" will "cure" that person.

They may even speak with you rationally after the fact, express remorse and even thank you for speaking with them.

Until the next snake crosses their path and the irrational fear/loathing takes over once again as they run for the nearest shovel.

As a group of snake loving people, most all of us will not find any rationale to anyone hacking up a garter snake.

That was Steve's intentions when he started this thread ;)

[Mommy2many]

Well said. Again, no disrespect was meant and to some point I did understand your point, Cman. However, it probably could have been put across to the members in a less gruesome manner.

On to the next post.

[shaunyboy]

I don't expect you to believe anything. It is what it is and it doesn't matter if you believe it. I don't like it any more than you do.


that being the case then should you not try and address this problem.i am sorry for my blunt post mate.your obviously an intelligent guy so why would you not try and get some help with these issues ? why just accept " oh well i kill these things and thats all there is to it " its not within the boundrys of normal decent behaviour and you say you dont like having that particular trait.so do something about it mate.i could even make sense of your post if you had been attacked by a possum as a child or some kind of bad experience with them.i really cant get my head round it mate .....!!!
cheers shaun

[ConcinusMan]

I for one agree very much with Stefan, and would like to apologize to Richard if I went too far overboard with any of my replies.

In a nutshell, I think the point he was trying to make is that when we see someone hacking a snake to bits is that in some instances, no amount of "educating" will "cure" that person.

They may even speak with you rationally after the fact, express remorse and even thank you for speaking with them.

Until the next snake crosses their path and the irrational fear/loathing takes over once again as they run for the nearest shovel.

As a group of snake loving people, most all of us will not find any rationale to anyone hacking up a garter snake.

That was Steve's intentions when he started this thread ;)

What he said ^^^. We find no rationale in hacking up a harmless snake because there is no rational reason to do so. And that's the point that I was trying to make. It's not rational at all. I think everyone got the point now. Sorry about the gruesome details.

[shaunyboy]

[QUOTE=Stefan-A;132764]I agree with ConcinnusMan. Not with what he does (you need to look past that part, it distracts you from the real issue), but with the idea that hatred, much like phobias, tends to be blind and at the point when it's triggered, logic usually goes right out the window. Don't think you're not capable of the same sort of reaction. In fact, based on what I've read recently, I'd say that most, if not all of you, could fairly easily be conditioned to do the same things to another human.


its a fair enough explaination that when a phobia kicks in all rational thought and logic goes out the window.

so its just ok to accept this behaviour in oneself ???

as for " dont think you're not capable of the same sort of reaction "

i have to disagree.there is nothing that would prompt me to kill something for no apparent reason.all life is precious to kill without a very very good reason is just plain wrong...!!

to use the excuse i have a phobia or a hate for it to kill something imo is a cop out for lack of self control.

i mean no mallice in my post and these are only my own humble opinion.
cheers shaun

[ConcinusMan]

I think what stefan was trying to say is basically this: If you're human, you are capable of an irrational reaction. You are not exempt from behaving in such a manner. ALL OF YOU react irrationally to something whether you choose to admit it or not. It has nothing to do with self-control.

[Stefan-A]

its a fair enough explaination that when a phobia kicks in all rational thought and logic goes out the window.

so its just ok to accept this behaviour in oneself ???
Like I said, it's not an excuse.



as for " dont think you're not capable of the same sort of reaction "

i have to disagree.there is nothing that would prompt me to kill something for no apparent reason.all life is precious to kill without a very very good reason is just plain wrong...!!Feel free to disagree. But I want to point out that everyone who has ever killed something intentionally, has had a reason for it, whether we would approve of that reason, or not.


to use the excuse i have a phobia or a hate for it to kill something imo is a cop out for lack of self control.That something can be explained, doesn't make it an excuse (as in absolving of responsibility).

But you can't really blame people with no self-control for not gaining self-control. That would require self-control. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Look guys, to suggest I have no self-control is a little insulting. I have been to hello and back again, from the brink of death due to drug addiction. I now have more self-control than you'll ever know. You don't know what kind of self-control it takes to keep from going down that road again. It's the kind of self-control that nobody who hasn't been there could understand, and so it makes my reaction to possums a trivial problem, at the bottom of my list of priorities.

[ConcinusMan]

I agree with Wayne: No disrespect, but be aware of your audience before you 'Submit Reply'.

Yes, I pretty much thought I was aware of the audience. I expected most of you to be a bit less judgmental and a bit more understanding. I guess I expected too much.:cool:

Sorry about turning your thread into a circus Steve. I know you already think little of me after the kingsnake vs. garter snake thing. I only ask that everyone try not to judge me. Honestly, you don't really know me. Somehow I've managed to get a few of the people I really like, to dislike me and I regret it.

[Tyrel26]

I apologize if I was harsh in any way. You're right, I don't know you or your situation. You seem like a good person that takes great care of his snakes so that makes you a good guy in my book.

Take care and no hard feeling I hope

[mustang]

I just was on the way to take my son to dinner when I saw a man in his front yard killing a garter snake(probably radix). It appeared he was standing on the snakes head and pulling on its body. To make things even worse it looked like his 4-5 year old son was standing by dad observing the whole thing. I can just hear the dad. "Son, every time you see a snake you kill it. Step on its head like this........ "
I was livid and saddened but knew my words would mean nothing to this guy and I would probably end up in jail if I confronted him. I don't think my boss the Sheriff would think that was a good career move on my part.
In Iowa, garter snakes are afforded "NO PROTECTION"
The ignorance and brutality of people seems to be unending.
my dad did the same thing...(killed first garter i saw) but when we tried to find out what snake it was he got mad because he killed a "good snake" ...reason my dad killed is because he didnt know what typeof snake it was an he had little kids runn around...if i was there i wouldv done same thing tho steve dont want to tresspas to prove a point no matter how bad the story is...another side note my uncle wanted me to yell every time id ee a snake andd i presued hed kill em turns out (never saw one) but he loves snaakes (had a red racer out near barn for a while) but the majorrity of snakes he saw were rattlers and copperheads...he was just lookn out for us kids...that dude though had no eexcuse to teach his son that tho especially if his son grabs a venomous snake and dosnt kill it the first try and it bites him.

[ConcinusMan]

I would got his license number, bagged the snake, and reported it. Not only is it appalling that he killed the snake, but it was a sanctuary, making it also a crime.

[mustang]

I would got his license number, bagged the snake, and reported it. Not only is it appalling that he killed the snake, but it was a sanctuary, making it also a crime.
i didnt think its on a sanctuary...it was on the dudes private property normally that means its yours to stuff to (unlless it violates home owners asociation, endangered species act, or any law then he can kill as many as he wants...but if it is a sanctuary then fry is sorry @$$ in our court system!(or whatever method you prefer)

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, sorry, I was thinking of a different thread.

[mustang]

and you got my hopes up geez