Polymorphism at its finest!

[redspot]

It's pretty cool how variable Thamnophis can be, sure my local concinnus very a bit but nothing like ordinoides.

Red stripe

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Portland%20Herping/DSC03704.jpg

Blue

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Portland%20Herping/DSC04007.jpg

Light tan/gold stripe

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Portland%20Herping/DSC04010.jpg

I don't know what to call this one

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Portland%20Herping/DSC04019.jpg

A few different ones together

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Portland%20Herping/DSC04018.jpg

I think it would be cool to start a thread of wild type garters from different areas showing extreme polymorphism.

Nate

[guidofatherof5]

I'd call this one "beautiful"



I don't know what to call this one

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Portland%20Herping/DSC04019.jpg

[Tyrel26]

I already added this pic to another thread but it seems to fit here as well

maritime garters

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d15/cuzgoatsrkool/groupshot.jpg

[BUSHSNAKE]

thanks redspot! gave a good feel of what you guys get to see, its crazy how variable ordinoides is compared to the size of their range, their range isnt all that big is it?

[redspot]

Tyrel those Marytimes are pretty cool.

Bushsnake, their range is west of the Cascades from southern Oregon up to extreme southern BC. I'm only representing about 5 square miles.

[BUSHSNAKE]

awesome thread, now can we see another 5 square miles?

[Hollis_Steed]

I'll take one of each please! :D

[ConcinusMan]

thanks redspot! gave a good feel of what you guys get to see, its crazy how variable ordinoides is compared to the size of their range, their range isnt all that big is it?

It's a much larger range than T.s. concinnus that's for sure.

I really like that last white striped one. Bottom pic, upper left. Nice. Looks very gravid too. You know, it's funny, you can go just 5 or 10 miles away and the ordinoides found will be completely different. There's a population near me that has mostly very dark colored snakes with very faint stripes and no patterns like the bottom pic, lower right. 3 miles from that, there's a population that is mostly orange or red striped brown snakes with lots of orange flecks.

Some more examples of T. ordinoides. ALL of these guys are from the same population and found in the same area of Oregon as the snakes Redspot has shown us:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5274/gedc1462.jpg

[BUSHSNAKE]

and much smaller than radix

[ConcinusMan]

I currently have the largest T. ordinoides I have ever seen and she's only 2.5 feet long. Oh, hey! I just looked over at her and she's shedding. I'll post pics when she's done.

[BUSHSNAKE]

is she gravid?

[ConcinusMan]

Who? the big one? You know, I'm not really sure but I'm thinking she's not. Some ordinoides mate in the fall and have babies in early spring. I'm thinking she's one of those. Most of them mate in late winter/early spring and have babies later in the summer.

The very red striped one is definitely gravid. I'm thinking sometime in the next 30 days or so, she'll pop.

[BUSHSNAKE]

hows your gravid female doing Richard?

[ConcinusMan]

Which one? Anyway, the red striped ordinoides girl refused food for a week (totally unlike her) so I thought she was going to pop but she pigged out on night crawlers today.

All the snakes are doing fantastic. They are eating very well, gravid or not, on night crawlers, silversides, and pinkies. Some of the smaller ordinoides will only take slugs so far. No problem finding slugs any time of year around here.

In the past, all of my snakes have taken food up to just 2 days before popping. Heck the big ordinoides girl that is shedding right now, ate all through her shed period. Blue eyes and everything, she kept eating. She ate 4 night crawlers just hours ago. I'll have to post pics tonight around midnight. She's still shedding and I have to go to work.

[BUSHSNAKE]

are you expecting babies anytime soon? do you know when they are about to drop?

[Jeff B]

Richard that bright red striped one is very pretty, hope she pops soon, it will be interesting to see what her babies look like and if any of them look like her.

[ConcinusMan]

My experience with them before has been that most offspring look like the mother. But I have also seen litters from multiple fathers resulting in wide variation in the offspring. But it does seem like the mother has more influence on the appearance of the offspring, judging from past litters.

I can say that she really shouldn't be any later than the 4th of July. My concinnus could take as long as sometime in August. Some are farther along than others though.

I will definitely shoot for April-June litters next year.

[Hollis_Steed]

This picture made me wonder if your Red single striped ordinoides ever delivered? The one you were advertising in the classifieds. ??


It's a much larger range than T.s. concinnus that's for sure.

I really like that last white striped one. Bottom pic, upper left. Nice. Looks very gravid too. You know, it's funny, you can go just 5 or 10 miles away and the ordinoides found will be completely different. There's a population near me that has mostly very dark colored snakes with very faint stripes and no patterns like the bottom pic, lower right. 3 miles from that, there's a population that is mostly orange or red striped brown snakes with lots of orange flecks.

Some more examples of T. ordinoides. ALL of these guys are from the same population and found in the same area of Oregon as the snakes Redspot has shown us:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5274/gedc1462.jpg

[Hollis_Steed]

Whoops, sorry Richard, I posted the last post before following this thread to the end! I guess these later posts (which I just read) answer my questions!

[infernalis]

Here the only garters are Eastern, Thamnophis Sirtalis Sirtalis. here is variations of what I find in my yard...

http://www.reptard.info/521/tham1.jpg

http://www.reptard.info/snakes/rusty.jpg

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/breeding/1couple.jpg

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/GSM/wbr.jpg

[Hollis_Steed]

some beauties! thanks for posting pics. It helps me learn the myriad of Themnophis that are out there.

[infernalis]

I also had one that was very yellow named Cheeto, but he passed away last year.

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's some of my wanderings...... :cool:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6024-1.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6044.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6047.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6052.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6053.jpg

[Tyrel26]

all very nice snakes! but i really like that first and last pic don

[ssssnakeluvr]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6025-1.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6002-1.jpg

will post more after the others shed..... seems like half my wanderings are in shed.....

[infernalis]

Don is the man when it's about the wanderings.

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's one of my gravid females too....in shed...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF6046.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

This picture made me wonder if your Red single striped ordinoides ever delivered? The one you were advertising in the classifieds. ??

Well you see how fat she is in that picture. It was taken yesterday. That should be a clue. The female next to her is NOT gravid. Big difference. Believe me, when she pops, I'll let everyone know and be posting lots of pics.

Here's a picture of my 30 inch female ordinoides. I've never seen one over 24 inches before and most are under 20 inches. She came from an area known for very large garters. An area where 3 foot (and up) concinnus are plentiful.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6233/gedc1467small.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

I currently have the largest T. ordinoides I have ever seen and she's only 2.5 feet long. Oh, hey! I just looked over at her and she's shedding. I'll post pics when she's done.

Shedding: (next to her hypoerythristic concinnus friend)

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/599/gedc1466small.jpg


All done!

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2552/gedc1470.jpg

[redspot]

Don that Black headed wondering is pretty cool!

Richard that big ordinoides looks like it's got the red/orange stripe going on?

Nice pics everyone else!

[ConcinusMan]

Don that Black headed wondering is pretty cool!

Richard that big ordinoides looks like it's got the red/orange stripe going on?


Well sort of. This effect has layers. You see how she has sort of cream-colored lateral stripes? well, believe it or not, her dorsal stripe is the same color, it's just that her body is so saturated in rust-colored flecks, that her dorsal stripe ends up looking sort of orange because it is so saturated in orange flecks. It's not really solid color. You might be able to see the inconsistency of the dorsal stripe color. Overall effect on the dorsal stripe gives the impression that it was stained with rust in spots.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2552/gedc1470.jpg

This is not the case with my pride and joy red-stripe female. Her color is solid dark brown, with a row of darker spots near her lateral line.(although, she has NO lateral stripes) Her stripe is well-defined, and solid vibrant red. Very intense red. Just a dark brown snake with that single intense red dorsal stripe. It's truly striking and this is coming from a guy who has seen tens of thousands of "ordinary" ordinoides.

I am truly blessed. Not only is she one in many snakes to have such beauty, but her personality is just as awesome. Very smart, very curious, very tame and always hungry. I sure hope I get some good babies from her this year, and a few years to come.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5274/gedc1462.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

An update to this thread...

The big 2.5 foot 3-stripe ordinoides girl was sent to Don Belnap some time ago. Turns out she was gravid afterall and gave Don some fine babies.

My red stripe girl pictured above had 6 babies in august and all were born plain gray with lighter colored stripes. Two of the six are developing red in their stripes. The rest are basically gray with a light tan stripe.

And now, I have borrowed "Flicker". The amazingly red T. ordinoides male and I hope he will sire a litter with my red stripe girl next spring. The two met today and I think he might be slightly attracted to her (extreme sarcasm):rolleyes:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1949/flicker002large.jpg

[jere000]

An update to this thread...

The big 2.5 foot 3-stripe ordinoides girl was sent to Don Belnap some time ago. Turns out she was gravid afterall and gave Don some fine babies.

My red stripe girl pictured above had 6 babies in august and all were born plain gray with lighter colored stripes. Two of the six are developing red in their stripes. The rest are basically gray with a light tan stripe.

And now, I have borrowed "Flicker". The amazingly red T. ordinoides male and I hope he will sire a litter with my red stripe girl next spring. The two met today and I think he might be slightly attracted to her (extreme sarcasm):rolleyes:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1949/flicker002large.jpgWow that garter is awesome good luck.Is that little one poking his head in the picture one of the babies you mentioned?

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, seriously is awesome. What a find! I would be just as thrilled to find that one as I would be to find an albino one. But he's not mine. I just want his sperm. Hopefully my girl will let him donate some.

Finally got video of their first date uploaded and ready to view. In spite of his enthusiasm, he wasn't the slightest bit interested in her today. I think I'll brumate both of them and reintroduce them in the spring.

Anyway, cool video if I do say so myself.

q_7oq17j7v0

[Jeff B]

That is a beautiful pair!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Great pair, yes. If only I could call them a "couple" just yet. ;) But yeah, if I'm going to breed something as common and "ordinary" as T. ordinoides, that's the kind of morphs I'm talkin' 'bout!

I do think, and have always known, that this species make great captives, certainly great pets, and have great potential for some awesome morphs and captive "line" breeding potential. Those two I think are a great way to start.:D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

iwantiwantiwantiwant

[ConcinusMan]

Well... I want a blackneck and a checkered... so ptttt!!! :p

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, and speaking of polymorphism, T. ordinoides and T.s. sirtalis don't have the market cornered you know.

These T.s. concinnus are all from the same population:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8271/morphs017large.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3140/herptrip014large.jpg
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2782/herptrip024.jpg

[anchietae]

Beautiful snakes!

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks. Hey guys, Flicker is eating for me. I was starting to worry. He is thin, but I dare not say undernourished upon arrival at my house. Well, you can see. He's fine, just thin but it's hard to fatten up a snake that won't eat worms or fish, or pinkies 'cause that's about all I have on the menu unless I dig around in my yard... So I did.:rolleyes:

Well he twice now gorged himself on a couple of big tiger slugs from my yard and has a decent lump in him now.:)

He's so funny, he grabs the food and crawls backwards, even up the sides of the tank, as if his life depended on that little trick.:D

[kibakiba]

Snakey does the same things with larger food, or sometimes when Mama's around. He acts all frantic with pinkies and larger pieces of night crawler. It's so silly seeing him do it.

[HazAnga]

Well... I want a blackneck and a checkered... so ptttt!!! :p

And I have checkered and albino checkered babies (about 2 months old now)... but alas I'm north of you with a border between us... :(