cage roulette

[drache]

this happens from time to time- somehow one or more garters are not working out in their group
sometimes it's just that they've grown at a different pace, and sometimes it seems to be personality stuff
so it's been happening in a couple of tanks and I had to reshuffle almost all of them which is what I did yesterday. of course it's always a risk, because the troubled snake might not get along any better with the new cage mates. thankfully it seems to have worked out
my biggest concern this time was Chloe, my lovely pallidulus from Terry. she was rooming with two t.s.sirtalis, one of them a florida blue, and for some reason there was too much shooting about and tail-whipping going on - the florida blue and Cloe kept upsetting each other. first it was just at meals, but then it would erupt at odd times.
now, Chloe is housed with my two largest garters, Sammy (sirtalis) and Thing (parietalis). these are two big mellow ladies, and Chloe settled right down with them
Blubabe (the florida blue) has moved in with a couple of radix ladies, and is suddenly much more visible; I think she was hiding a lot before
I'm glad it seems to be working out. I prefer not to keep garters solitary

[guidofatherof5]

Very interseting. Glad things are working out.

[Hollis_Steed]

Rhea,
When you say you prefer not to keep garters solitary is this based on the fact that garters seem to need a social situation? or is it based on limited cage space? Do you keep only same sexes together or does it not really matter? Does this seem to affect the way a WC garter tames down? if so, does it help them acclimate to handling and being a pet or does it take longer when they are with another snake on a regular basis?

[bkhuff1s]

My experience, the males tend to calm down, when they're housed with another snake.

[ConcinusMan]

Snakes do gauge the reaction of their cagemates. A highly tame and adjusted garter can influence the behavior of more nervous snakes. I guess they figure hey, "she's not freaking out, everything must be OK".

[guidofatherof5]

Snakes do gauge the reaction of their cagemates. A highly tame and adjusted garter can influence the behavior of more nervous snakes. I guess they figure hey, "she's not freaking out, everything must be OK".

Good way to put it.

[ConcinusMan]

I guess it depends on what snake is the "alpha" of the enclosure. A nervous "alpha" can cause the others to be nervous too, so it can work both ways. if snakes kept together seem to be bickering and there's conflict, it's definitely a good idea to resolve it by playing "cage roulette". Snakes that don't get along and are forced together can cause stress and lowered immunity and feeding response.

Many of the issues can be solved by simply giving them plenty of room, basking and hiding places.

I guess I'm lucky. Keeping ordinoides and concinnus together, they get along very well and usually seek out each other's company, often piling up together under a basking lamp. They get along wonderfully. I do try to avoid keeping say, 3 footers with 1 footers. All my big girls (4 of them, 30-38 inches) are together in the 55 gallon. Two small males and 3 ordinoides of similar size, are in a 20 gallon.

[bkhuff1s]

I keep by current breeding pair housed together. Reasoning

The female is by far the most chill snake I own. And the male, well he's very squirrelly. If he's in with the female I can open the cage and pull him out. He usually will only freak out when I first touch him. However, if the female is already removed he'll race around as soon as I open the top of the enclosure.

I've thought this might have something to do with cage design, because in the wild predators attack from above. So if I had a door, I'm thinking they would be a little calmer, I haven't had the opportunity to test this hypothesis yet though.

I believe this topic was discussed some time ago.

[guidofatherof5]

I keep by current breeding pair housed together. Reasoning

The female is by far the most chill snake I own. And the male, well he's very squirrelly. If he's in with the female I can open the cage and pull him out. He usually will only freak out when I first touch him. However, if the female is already removed he'll race around as soon as I open the top of the enclosure.

I've thought this might have something to do with cage design, because in the wild predators attack from above. So if I had a door, I'm thinking they would be a little calmer, I haven't had the opportunity to test this hypothesis yet though.

I believe this topic was discussed some time ago.

I have almost all of my snakes housed in front opening enclosures. They are much more calm. They are so calm they will be sleeping on the small ledge infront of their door and won't wake until I touch them. Then it's a slow look like "I'm tired, let me sleep"

[bkhuff1s]

I believe this was your original hypothesis Steve. I could be wrong

[Hollis_Steed]

Good information.
both my adults are in 20 gallon aquariums. One of the reasons I asked was so if the time comes that I get another snake and want to conserve on space i would consider putting them together.
This is all good food for thought.

[ConcinusMan]

There's conserving, then there's cramming. It's ultimately up to the keeper to know the difference.

[drache]

two adults in a 20G seems crowded
I'm currently keeping one adult female parietalis in a 20G long infirmary tank, and I find that I think of it as cramped quarters for her
on the other hand I've got a small adult pair of easterns in a 20G long, and for them it seems to work

[Hollis_Steed]

gotcha. I guess it would indeed depend on the actual size of the snakes in question. It does provide options though.