Baby Checkereds on the Ranch

[guidofatherof5]

Yesterday was a sad day when Honda passed all jellies and 1 stillborn.
Today was a different story. My girl Rescue gave birth to 7 beautiful little scrubs. The male(Houdini) must be Het for albino as I got 1 albino in the mix.
These are some great looking little snakes.
I'm a happy man.
These snakes where adopted from forum member k2l3d4 , Thanks Kady
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds1.jpg


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds3.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds2.jpg

[indigoman]

Congrtulations Steve, very similar in pattern and color of my new brood, my male het and female albino produced 5 het and 5albinos 4 jellies. I'm not good on the computer or camera but i posted some pictures on the gallery.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i see some interesting patterns going on

[guidofatherof5]

Congrtulations Steve, very similar in pattern and color of my new brood, my male het and female albino produced 5 het and 5albinos 4 jellies. I'm not good on the computer or camera but i posted some pictures on the gallery.


Congrats on your babies.

[charles parenteau]

Wow Steve they are awesome congrats!!!
Interresting pattern indeed!!
-------------------------------------------------------

Yesterday was a sad day when Honda passed all jellies and 1 stillborn.
Today was a different story. My girl Rescue gave birth to 7 beautiful little scrubs. The male(Houdini) must be Het for albino as I got 1 albino in the mix.
These are some great looking little snakes.
I'm a happy man.
These snakes where adopted from forum member k2l3d4 , Thanks Kady
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds1.jpg


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds3.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds2.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

This little beauty has some great color. The only thing I did to the photo was crop it.
My new Sony captured her true colors.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds4.jpg

[infernalis]

Wow Steve, Very pretty color.

[prattypus]

That last one is a real stunner!

[Stefan-A]

Very interesting patterns. :)

[gregmonsta]

That little bumblebee is worth having ;). Very nice, congrats.

[guidofatherof5]

That little bumblebee is worth having ;). Very nice, congrats.

Thanks for the name Greg
Bumblebee, I like it. Hope you don't mind.

[indigoman]

That one is an absolute beauty!

[gregmonsta]

Thanks for the name Greg
Bumblebee, I like it. Hope you don't mind.

:D No probs there buddy.

[MasSalvaje]

Congrats Steve!!! They look awesome!

How is mom doing?

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

Congrats Steve!!! They look awesome!

How is mom doing?

-Thomas

She's doing great. She ate 3 very large nightcrawlers about an hour ago. Back to her old self.:D
Thanks for asking.

P.S. GBK is doing great and eating like a pig. Great snake, thanks again.

[MasSalvaje]

She's doing great. She ate 3 very large nightcrawlers about an hour ago. Back to her old self.:D
Thanks for asking.

P.S. GBK is doing great and eating like a pig. Great snake, thanks again.

Good to hear that, I hope you are enjoying him.

-Thomas

[k2l3d4]

Yesterday was a sad day when Honda passed all jellies and 1 stillborn.
Today was a different story. My girl Rescue gave birth to 7 beautiful little scrubs. The male(Houdini) must be Het for albino as I got 1 albino in the mix.
These are some great looking little snakes.
I'm a happy man.
These snakes where adopted from forum member k2l3d4 , Thanks Kady
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds1.jpg


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds3.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds2.jpg


I am saddened to hear about Honda, but you are more then welcome with the Three Muskateers. I am astounded by the coloring of the little bumblebee! Wow it is one beautiful little snake! I am so glad to hear that they are all doing well and that Rescue is back ot being her normal little piggy self ... :) How is Little Dude doing though. Last time we communicated you had said that he was still not eating very well....
K2l3d4

[guidofatherof5]

How is Little Dude doing though. Last time we communicated you had said that he was still not eating very well....
K2l3d4

I would not call Little Dude a big eater. He's doing fine but he's not like the others when it comes to eating.
He also hasn't buddied-up with me yet. Strange, usually I get along well with every snake. I must be doing something wrong with him.:D

[RicMartin]

Really nice!!!!!

[k2l3d4]

I would not call Little Dude a big eater. He's doing fine but he's not like the others when it comes to eating.
He also hasn't buddied-up with me yet. Strange, usually I get along well with every snake. I must be doing something wrong with him.:D

That is wierd since he was the one that use to kick it with me in my sweatshirt pocket.......

[GartersRock]

WOW... I have NEVER seen checkereds with a pattern anything like that on the neck! You really have something there...

[Spankenstyne]

Congrats! Nice looking babies. Some seem to have that hypo look as well, and that bumblebee/tiger looking one with the orange neck and around the eyes is amazing.
Nice to see more babies, I just had a litter as well with 5 hets and 6 albinos.

[guidofatherof5]

Congrats! Nice looking babies. Some seem to have that hypo look as well, and that bumblebee/tiger looking one with the orange neck and around the eyes is amazing.
Nice to see more babies, I just had a litter as well with 5 hets and 6 albinos.

Congrats on your babies.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hey Steve.... is it possible these animals come from the lineage of that new hypo line of checkereds that's out??? It sure looks like thats what they are... now that I am taking a second look at those photos. I just noticed there's a normal checkered in the photo with the others. The difference is clear. If so... one of the parents should look a little different than your typical checkered.

[k2l3d4]

Hey Steve.... is it possible these animals come from the lineage of that new hypo line of checkereds that's out??? It sure looks like thats what they are... now that I am taking a second look at those photos. I just noticed there's a normal checkered in the photo with the others. The difference is clear. If so... one of the parents should look a little different than your typical checkered.

Shannon.. I purchased the father from Petco in Foster City, ca and the Mother was a rescue from Petco here in Redwood City, CA. The poor thing was starved half to death when I got her. She was the last one to be sold and when I got her she looked like she could have been her brothers baby with how small she was .... I had a post on then last year when I got them.
Here is a pic of her and her brother when I first rescued her ...
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs146.snc1/5414_1109199128517_1183004362_30276764_4994227_n.j pg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30276760&id=1183004362)

One of her by herself.....
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs126.snc1/5414_1112399568526_1183004362_30284761_4193494_n.j pg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30284755&id=1183004362)

And then a pic of the father.... (during tank cleaning)


http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs030.snc1/3190_1082264975180_1183004362_30203859_3326801_n.j pg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30203859&id=1183004362)

Now since they ended up siring an albino baby I am assuming that Hudinie had to be het for albino but Petco had no idea what they had... Heck they were selling ribbon snakes as garters......

They did create some beautiful babies though and I am so glad to see that they are doing so well on the Ranch.

Kady

[BUSHSNAKE]

marcianus is so underrated

[Stefan-A]

marcianus is so underrated
I don't think that's necessarily so. It's probably one of, if not the most popular and common garter species out there on the market, mainly thanks to the albino morph.

[BUSHSNAKE]

really? i didnt know that

[Stefan-A]

really? i didnt know that
Well, it's how I perceive it. Others may have a different picture of the situation. It would be interesting to see statistics from breeders, regarding what's been sold and how quickly.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Im a breeder...sirtalis morphs..all sold in a couple weeks

[BUSHSNAKE]

is that interesting to you?

[Stefan-A]

Sorry, no. It would need to be a planned study (as opposed to something I came up with on the spot) with multiple breeders of multiple species and spanning over multiple seasons etc. etc. It's just information I wish I had. ;)

Oh and I've had one wandering garter for sale for over a month now. :rolleyes:

[BUSHSNAKE]

i can tell ya this...i feel there really isnt a lot of people breeding Thamnophis here in the states and i feel i know most people that do and I follow the hobby very closely. i have your statistics all in my head

[guidofatherof5]

*UPDATE*

Most of the babies are eating cut up nightcrawler. They are living with my baby het. T.radixes.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

i can tell ya this...i feel there really isnt a lot of people breeding Thamnophis here in the states and i feel i know most people that do and I follow the hobby very closely. i have your statistics all in my head


all your statistics are belong to my head


great news Steve!!! Feed them up, nice and fat!

[drache]

congrats, Steve

I tend to think that we see more marcianus here than other garters is because they're legal to keep - I think just about anywhere

[Jeff B]

neat checkereds Steve, the albino was a nice surprise. Congrats

[guidofatherof5]

Thank you everyone for your kind comments. I'm looking forward to watching these little scrubs grow. I'm going to get some updated photos on all of them within the next few days.

[k2l3d4]

I am glad to hear that all are eating and doing well!!!! Tell Rescue that I am so very proud of her.

[guidofatherof5]

I am glad to hear that all are eating and doing well!!!! Tell Rescue that I am so very proud of her.

Gave her that exact message when I found the babies. She's a good mom.

[k2l3d4]

Good! I am so happy that they are doing well, but I am concerned that Little Dude has not warmed up to you. He was the most social of the three.....

[guidofatherof5]

Good! I am so happy that they are doing well, but I am concerned that Little Dude has not warmed up to you. He was the most social of the three.....

I don't know what to say. Over the next few months I'm going to make a concerted effort to win him over. He just seems a little standoffish.
Maybe I'll put Gabby in charge of him for awhile.
He's doing fine but not relaxing like the others.

[k2l3d4]

Well hopefully Gabby will do the trick! I am sure that she can do it.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a few more photos. My subjects weren't very cooperative.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/check.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/check1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/check3.jpg

[k2l3d4]

Great Job Hudinie and Rescue... Your babies are beautiful!!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

All are eating but 1. The only albino born is holding out. I've offered cut-up night crawlers, guppies and earthworms. I hope she starts eating soon.

[Mommy2many]

Once again, another beautiful bunch of scrubs!

[k2l3d4]

Steve... something wierd, but the father was a wierd one.. The first thing that I got him to be happy to eat was I dipped some pinkies in the water out of a can of tuna fish and he Loved it. Probably not the best thing but he was a stubborn one to switch over to pinkies.... Might try that......

[guidofatherof5]

UPDATE

The last non-eater is now an eater. The albino started eating guppies tonight. For the first 15 minutes in the container she showed no interest. Then as she moved through the shallow water and the splashing guppies she couldn't resist.
It's a good feeling that they all are eating.

[Hollis_Steed]

Congrats on getting all to the supper table!

[guidofatherof5]

All these beautiful Checkereds are still eating. I'm still having to fool them into eating worms but they are doing fine.
These are my first Checkered babies and they are growing machines. Bumblebee and the other little high contrasts are looking awesome.

[mustang]

lucky checkers the one stuck at foot....but i just started new feeding regiment hopefully that will work

[guidofatherof5]

Here are an updated photo of Bumblebee. Her colors are intensifying as she's growing.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/bumblebee2.jpg

[Mommy2many]

That's an awesome color on Bumblebee! Perfect name.

[Hollis_Steed]

Steve! Bumblebee is beautiful! If she needs a vacation I think northern Utah is the perfect spot! Put her on a greyhound bus and I'll pick her up and make sure she has a wonderful time!

[gartermorphs]

she so cute i love her coloring!

[Mommy2many]

I bet the Eastern United States would offer so much more, Jeff! I could arrange some R&R over here, for at least a few of them:D

[Hollis_Steed]

I bet the Eastern United States would offer so much more, Jeff! I could arrange some R&R over here, for at least a few of them:D

How about we rotate them! It'll be like children being passed between parents....it happens all the time....I thing we could work it out!!:D

[gartermorphs]

yah it can rotate to utah then to virginia then to coneticut!

[guidofatherof5]

T.radix Ranch Rent-a-radix.
I may as well make a little money off this deal.
I may not have to get another job after my pending retirement.

[Selkielass]

Garter snake timeshare?
Sign me up for a sales meeting!

[guidofatherof5]

My local pet shop is out of guppies until mid week so I decided to check out a local grocery store to buy some fresh salmon.
Salmon was $10 a pound but UK trout was on sale.
I opted for the trout
At first my young checkereds ignored it but soon started chowing down. All but "Bumblebee" she refused to eat. I'm concerned about her as she seems to be falling into that failure to thrive thing. Even when she has live fish she is slow to eat and doesn't eat much. I've noticed she is also losing weight. I hope that this is just a phase she's going through and will crank up the eating soon.

[kibakiba]

It seems a lot of snakes are going off feed right now, maybe in a few days she'll eat again? My newest baby, Tiny, wont eat either but I figure he's just scared. He's even smaller than runt was! 2.5 inches is what I measured, but he could be a little larger. I hope bumblebee will start eating more for you, Steve!

[mustang]

good luck hope bumble bee pulls through

[guidofatherof5]

Here's what a .85 lb piece of trout looks like after my Ranch member got done with it.
I just put it in with them and they chewed off what they wanted.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/trout.jpg

[kibakiba]

Wow, they were very hungry! Lucky little snakes ;)

[ConcinusMan]

$10 a pound? yikes.

Fish available at a store near me:
Wild (Washington) coho salmon $4.99 lb
Tilapia $5.99 lb
Farmed Steelhead $6.99 lb

The salmon and steelhead trout can be bought whole slightly cheaper and they are huge (about 20lbs)

I was looking for pics when I found this shocking information:
Health Alerts - Seafood Selector - Environmental Defense Fund (http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=17694)

I don't think I'll be feeding them coho or steelhead anymore. Apparently, the tilapia or wild alaskan salmon is about the only safe fish I can buy for them, and when I say "safe" I'm not talking about thiaminase. Many of the fish aren't safe for people, let alone to use as a main source of food for my snakes.

Kinda figures that the only fish I can buy for them that isn't full of harmful contaminants is also the most expensive.

All this talk of thiaminase and "safe" fish is what got me feeding them steelhead and salmon in the first place. Seems safer to do what I did before and that is feed them goldfish and WC amphibians but I was told "no.. don't do that, it's not safe" Well somebody forgot to tell my snakes that. They lived about 20 years on that stuff. Now I'm really starting to doubt that salmon and trout are any safer. In fact, PCB's, mercury... etc.. is sounding a lot worse than goldfish right about now.

Probably that's what's wrong with my twitching snake. I guess I'll probably go ahead and spend a boatload of money on mice from mice direct and stop feeding them fish. I really don't see any choice given the sad state of fish. Jeez, I had no idea.

[k2l3d4]

Steve,
Hudinie, went on a hunger strike for awhile. He denied his pinkies and fishies.... he ended up going for either pinkies dipped in the water from a can of tuna adn little green treee frogs. It was the only thing that I could get him to eat for awhile. Maybe Bumblebee is the same way? It is worth a try at least.
Kady

[Selkielass]

We have had problems with PCB and mercury contamination in the Great Lakes for decades- Its the lovely legacy industry has left behind in the 'rust belt'. All local fish have to be treated as occasional treats, and not a staple.

I understand mining operations have left even worse behind in many areas. I don't think there is an easy way out for anyone.

Many food watch groups recommend farm raised fish as a good option, but recommend avoiding fish raised in places like China and Thailand, as they are more likely to have residues of antibiotics and other questionable medications and feed additives.

Goldfish can have the same problems as any other fish- if the groundwater or soil is contaminated with industrial waste, then they end up with the same contaminates as carp, trout or any other fish raised in the same area PLUS the risk of thiaminase.

I'm just trying to feed a varied diet- backyard worms, a few mice, silversides and I'm saving scraps of tilapia and salmon whenever I'm preparing fish for the family. I just hope I strike a decent balance.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm just trying to feed a varied diet- backyard worms, a few mice, silversides and I'm saving scraps of tilapia and salmon whenever I'm preparing fish for the family. I just hope I strike a decent balance.

A varied diet is the best;)

[Snakers]

$10 a pound? yikes.

Fish available at a store near me:
Wild (Washington) coho salmon $4.99 lb
Tilapia $5.99 lb
Farmed Steelhead $6.99 lb

The salmon and steelhead trout can be bought whole slightly cheaper and they are huge (about 20lbs)

I was looking for pics when I found this shocking information:
Health Alerts - Seafood Selector - Environmental Defense Fund (http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=17694)

I don't think I'll be feeding them coho or steelhead anymore. Apparently, the tilapia or wild alaskan salmon is about the only safe fish I can buy for them, and when I say "safe" I'm not talking about thiaminase. Many of the fish aren't safe for people, let alone to use as a main source of food for my snakes.

Kinda figures that the only fish I can buy for them that isn't full of harmful contaminants is also the most expensive.

All this talk of thiaminase and "safe" fish is what got me feeding them steelhead and salmon in the first place. Seems safer to do what I did before and that is feed them goldfish and WC amphibians but I was told "no.. don't do that, it's not safe" Well somebody forgot to tell my snakes that. They lived about 20 years on that stuff. Now I'm really starting to doubt that salmon and trout are any safer. In fact, PCB's, mercury... etc.. is sounding a lot worse than goldfish right about now.

Probably that's what's wrong with my twitching snake. I guess I'll probably go ahead and spend a boatload of money on mice from mice direct and stop feeding them fish. I really don't see any choice given the sad state of fish. Jeez, I had no idea.
I know....The prices are ridiculous, it's why I catch my own...:)

[ConcinusMan]

It would be cheaper for me to pay $10 a pound than to put forth the time and expense necessary to catch the fish myself. Not only that, it's the same dang polluted fish I can buy. Average every day joes around here don't fish to catch fish for food. They fish for the fun of it. If they were doing it to save money on fish, they would fail at that.

If I wanted to spend all day, and buy tackle, a license, etc. I could fairly easily come home with a few pounds of bluegill. Tainted with mercury AND PCB's that is. We're talking enough to make more than 1/2lb for an adult human per month, unhealthy. So I guess, one mouthful for a snake, per month might be OK.:rolleyes: But really, how much poison is really acceptable?

What species of fish do you catch? What state?

[guidofatherof5]

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right.
I just found Bumblebee dead.
Things were going so well but I did see her want to eat lessoning. Her activity level was also down and she was losing weight.
Appears to be "Failure to Thrive". Looking back I don't see anything I could have done to prevent this.
This is the part about raising them that makes it so difficult.
This hurts but I also look at all the ones that survive and I feel better.
R.I.P. little scrub.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/bumblebee1.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Really sorry to hear it, Steve.

[Selkielass]

Drat, I am Sooo sorry to hear she didn't make it- Her intense yellow and black coloring made her, (For me anyway) one of the most memorable snakes here.
RIP little one.

[kibakiba]

Sorry to hear Steve, she as beautiful! At least the others are doing well :)

[indigoman]

Sorry to read of your loss. she was a very stunning marcianus.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh man, that sucks. Bumblebee was really gorgeous!

[Snakers]

damn, seems we loose the best...I'm afraid the stripeless is on her way out to has refused food and health is dropping for the past month, I know it's my own fault not freezing the peepers long enough:(

[guidofatherof5]

damn, seems we loose the best...I'm afraid the stripeless is on her way out to has refused food and health is dropping for the past month, I know it's my own fault not freezing the peepers long enough:(

Keep us posted. Prayers being sent your way.

[Snakers]

Keep us posted. Prayers being sent your way.
she just ate a piece off worm maybe shes coming back:)

[guidofatherof5]

she just ate a piece off worm maybe shes coming back:)


Nice to hear she eat something. Hoping for many more good updates.

[mustang]

ow man steve im sorry to hear it bumble bee had some amazing markings (maybe her siblings are het for those markins hope that cheered you up some)

[guidofatherof5]

ow man steve im sorry to hear it bumble bee had some amazing markings (maybe her siblings are het for those markins hope that cheered you up some)

Thanks Robert,
With her mother and father still on the Ranch I'm hoping for more like her in the future. She was beautiful.

[k2l3d4]

Steve,
So Very saddened by the loss of Bumblebee.... Was not wanting to respond to this thread cause it just sucks, but I figured Hudinie would yell to kingdom come if I did not. I hope that Hudinie and Rescue give you many more with as striking of markings as Bumblebee.

[guidofatherof5]

They've been on the Ranch for almost 5 months and today is the first time one of these Checkereds ate a chunk of worm by itself. Usually I have to trick them into eating worms.
You know, a bunch of worm chucks mixed in with a few flopping guppies.
But today that all changed. It's a small victory since only one of them ate worms but it nice to know all my Checkereds born here aren't mutants. I was shocked when she took it.
I always offer worms to this group of Checkereds when I'm feeding the radixes that live with them.
It would be nice if all her siblings would follow suit. Hopefully they will.

[HazAnga]

My Checkered Babies are only 3 months old and most (with the exceptiuon of 1 are eating worm pieces, guppies and whole or pinkies cut in half. One will only eat guppies and is still really small, if it was in the wild it would of been dead within the first month.

[guidofatherof5]

My Checkered Babies are only 3 months old and most (with the exceptiuon of 1 are eating worm pieces, guppies and whole or pinkies cut in half. One will only eat guppies and is still really small, if it was in the wild it would of been dead within the first month.




I agree, Nick. I feel these specialized eaters are at a distinct disadvantage unless they have access to the food supply they desire.
It's much better for survival to have a varied diet.

[HazAnga]

Yes it is. I wish I could git her on something else, I've tryed so much. The only thing I havn't tryed is putting some worm with some live guppies in a dish and hopefully it mistakenly takes the worm or a piece of pinkie. But even then it hasn't grown much at all since birth. It might have 1/2'd it's birth size at the most. It's shed a few time though which was good. And I believe that it shed a few weeks ago too. It's healthy, eats when i can git it food and flicks it's tongue and everything, so I'm not worried, just wish that it would git bigger and eat different things.

[guidofatherof5]

Yes it is. I wish I could git her on something else, I've tryed so much. The only thing I havn't tryed is putting some worm with some live guppies in a dish and hopefully it mistakenly takes the worm or a piece of pinkie. But even then it hasn't grown much at all since birth. It might have 1/2'd it's birth size at the most. It's shed a few time though which was good. And I believe that it shed a few weeks ago too. It's healthy, eats when i can git it food and flicks it's tongue and everything, so I'm not worried, just wish that it would git bigger and eat different things.


Give the guppy/worm trick a try. I've had great success with it.

[RicMartin]

Congratulations Steve!

Great picts.

Ric

[guidofatherof5]

The little Checkereds that were born on the Ranch are doing well. A few for them are still not eating worms but are still thriving.
This little female always catches my eye when I work with them.
She's going to be a great looking adult.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds5.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds6.jpg

[kibakiba]

Ooooh. She is a definite cutie!

[ConcinusMan]

Now those look a heck of a lot like what Shannon calls "Pastel" I still don't quite get what that means. I have a pair of those coming soon.

[guidofatherof5]

Now those look a heck of a lot like what Shannon calls "Pastel" I still don't quite get what that means. I have a pair of those coming soon.

Same snake in both photos. She's is the most black and white one out of the group. She's also an albino het.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, the snakes I have coming look like those and shannon called them "pastel". They are also het albinos.

here they are, and can anyone explain to me what the heck makes them "pastel" ? She says if you mate a pastel to a normal, you get pastels and normals first generation. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between pastel and normal.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7721/fbd29308medium.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

No idea. I just call them gorgous.:D

[kibakiba]

Lighter more pastel looking colouring? Seems like it. Any time I see someone calling a snake "pastel" it has, say, a pastel yellow type colour.

[indigoman]

What Steve has would in my eyes be considered pastel, the lighter background color be it yellow or creame make the black squares seem to stand out more. I have some who have a brighter look to them but i wouldn't call them pastel from the comparison of the ones i've seen under that label.

[ConcinusMan]

I agree. Those are pastel checkereds he has there. The head pattern gives it away too. Mine are coming in less than two weeks. Yippy!

[gartergal]

This little beauty has some great color. The only thing I did to the photo was crop it.
My new Sony captured her true colors.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/checkereds4.jpg


STunning!

[guidofatherof5]

Thank you. I wish she had survived. Hoping for more this year.

[mustang]

was bumblebee pastel, super pastel, or a NEW MORPH?!!!

[gregmonsta]

Don't confuse the morph labelling bonanza .... :rolleyes: ....

[mustang]

Don't confuse the morph labelling bonanza .... :rolleyes: ....
sorry i had a ball science fair project...i think theres an alphabet of ball morphs (you can go through the alphabet atleast 3 times w/o running out of a letter!)

[guidofatherof5]

was bumblebee pastel, super pastel, or a NEW MORPH?!!!

I have no idea. All I know is she was beautiful.

[guidofatherof5]

Rescue gave birth this morning. 9 alive(4 albinos, 5 hets)
2 stillborn albinos.
No bumblebees.

[guidofatherof5]

*Update*
She had an additional 1 albino.

Babies all seem small compared to last years. Healthy and active though.

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/newch.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Nice little guys.

[HazAnga]

congrats Steve, They all are looking big and healthy. I can't wait for Tina to hopefully have babies late this summer. Her and Major I think have bred later on then when Helga and him bred. It'll be nice because then I won't git a boat load of babies all at once it'll be separated by several months.

[mustang]

Awesome!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like I may have spoken too soon about not having a little bumblebee colored checkered.
This little female caught my eye. She's a bit small but coloring up nicely.
These photos wash out the orange/yellow that is starting to develop.
Time will tell just how much color will come out.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nice_checkered1.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nice_checkered3.jpg

[kibakiba]

Awwww, she is precious!

[Sonya610]

Wow...she is really pretty.

[RdubSnider]

She looks fantastic. I don't have any normals but I will when I find one that looks like that

[ConcinusMan]

That's not quite normal. Judging from the head pattern, it's a pastel. It's one of those weird color variations (very light background) which also affects the pattern on their heads. It is genetic and mating a pastel to a normal will produce some pastels, some normals. The pastels themselves have some variation among them. Some are lighter, some darker. Some yellowish, some greenish, but the common theme is a very light colored background with highly contrasting black markings. Basically just a very high contrast snake when compared to a normal. Here's my "pastel" marcianus:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2304/checker007blarge.jpg

I think Steve's original Bumblebee and this latest one he posted are pastels if you want to put a label on them, but I think his look nicer than mine. Love the way that rich yellow contrasts with the black. Mine just has sort of a weird florescent green tint in the light areas and olive green head. No "super" form has ever been created apparently so it's what you would call incomplete dominant I suppose. It acts dominant but not all the offspring of a pastel X normal will come out pastel. You'll get both. It's not truly codominant either because there is no "in between" and there is no super form.

[RdubSnider]

Richard
Yours is also very nice looking. Almost looks hypo to me

[HazAnga]

isn't a hypo and a Pastel kind of the same thing...? I know i read a thread about that somewhere... but anyhow, yes Richard your Marcanus are awesome looking and so is Steve's, I'd definitely Love to git my hands on an offspring of either. I'll be looking for some new blood eventually :)

Btw... how old do Garters stay mature enough to still have babies?

[RdubSnider]

My albino checkered is 8 and gravid now. I've heard evan quite a bit older than this

[ConcinusMan]

I had a female concinnus that had her last litter when she was 10. She lived much longer than that and probably could have had more but I didn't let her breed after that.


isn't a hypo and a Pastel kind of the same thing...?


Not really. Pastel checkereds were originally being called "hypo" but that's not even a word by itself. "Hypo" followed by no other letters is meaningless.;)

They're definitely not hypomelanistic since they have normal dark black. They can't be hypoerythristic (like my yellow spotted concinnus') since checkereds don't have red. They aren't really "hypo" anything. Anyway, it was unofficially settled that these would be called "Pastel" checkereds.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I am the jerk who came along and coined the name pastel. I have been calling them pastels since very early on, simply because I feel that hypo is not accurrate in describing this snake. Pastel is a better term... the black on these snakes is actually darker and more defined than a normal. The other colors are lightened and brightened. As pastels grow, their scales darken a little, (see where I am getting at? these snakes are identical in their coloration type to the pastel ball python) and most pastels could be mistaken for a nice normal as an adult but the color in-between their scales is an almost fake looking lime color that makes them stand out. If you know what to look for you can always spot a pastel. Especially the head, neck and facial pattern. I just got in an adult male pastel from Ben Siegel Reptiles this morning. Ben auctioned it on facebook, but he had no idea it was actually a pastel... because hardly anyone knows they even exist. Neither did anyone else... so I was lucky to steal the snake for $35. I only had one picture to go off but I as pretty confident I was bidding on a pastel. sure enough it's here, and it's the real deal! a REALLY NICE male. With an extremely aberrant head and facial pattern... Currently courting an albino female also from Ben. I am growing up two pastels that were born WHITE last year, so far, they are still white with a lime green tint... it will be interesting to see them mature. Steve's little baby there is a pretty nice looking one... it will be interesting to see her develop! The pastel checkered is my favorite garter snake in the whole world... and taking them to the next level is my goal!

[ConcinusMan]

The girl I got from you is darkening a bit but not too much. Still has that nice green color. Every time I think she's starting to look like a normal she sheds and brightens up again. Her and the albinos are growing very fast Shannon. I swear they've about doubled their length in two months. That's faster than my fastest growing radix or concinnus. Seems like they're always in shed.