piebald garter

[snakeman]

Another piebald garter found.Pic on kingsnake garter forum.Cool morph.Not as pretty as I thought one would be.

[GartersRock]

Now that's a tried and true piebald.....

[prattypus]

Couldn't find it.

[infernalis]

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1819742,1819742


wow, amazing...

[snakeman]

I would love to see it bred to a melanistic.Hopefully the genes would not mask each other and you would get a black and white snake.

[infernalis]

that would be way cool.

[drache]

it's kind of weird
like advanced vitiligo
kind of cool

[Hollis_Steed]

WoW! Now to me that is a beautiful snake! I love it!

[MasSalvaje]

Call me crazy but I am not diggin it, I would still pay a lot more for a nice flame than I would that girl.

-Thomas

[infernalis]

It's rare as teeth on hens. That is where the beauty lies...

[prattypus]

I agree that it's nifty because it's rare. I think those Chinese Crested dogs are pretty rare too, but I don't want to spend alot of time looking at them.

[drache]

it does kind of look better on a pony, that piebald look

[infernalis]

I agree that it's nifty because it's rare. I think those Chinese Crested dogs are pretty rare too, but I don't want to spend alot of time looking at them.


to add perspective, it's a garter snake, a very rare garter snake.

@Rhea, you always say things that make me smile.:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

well, I think it's awesome! but then, I also think normal garters are awesome!!

[ConcinusMan]

Another piebald garter found.Pic on kingsnake garter forum.Cool morph.Not as pretty as I thought one would be.

Can someone imbed a picture here? I can't seem to find it.

[ssssnakeluvr]

its on kingsnake.com...the is a link.... its in the garter snake forum...only one pic, but he has a link to his website, has a big facebook link, had a dozen or so pics on there

[ConcinusMan]

Still can't find it.

[infernalis]

Post number 4 in this thread I pasted a direct link to the picture.

Also the photographer has asked that no one embed the pic elsewhere, not an unreasonable request.

[Laura]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs531.ash1/31173_397797783636_630303636_4051671_1732004_n.jpg

[MasSalvaje]

well, I think it's awesome! but then, I also think normal garters are awesome!!

I am with you Don on the normals. I enjoy a nice "normal" garter as much as any of my morphs.

Wayne I understand that it being rare makes it worth a lot but that still doesn't make it any prettier to me. I guess if I found something like that though I would think it was the coolest find ever, but right now I just equate it with the money side of things.

-Thomas

[ConcinusMan]

Wild caught at that. Wow. What a find. All too often though, the rare snakes are found by idiots who don't take care of them. I agree with the reply to that post. That snake looks like it needs some TLC.

[Quibble]

I saw this add too on fauna classifieds http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180218

I wonder if anyone we know is gonna go for it. ...?

[GartersRock]

It's going to be pretty up there in price! Anyone will have to be pretty serious about it.

[infernalis]

I just got off the phone with Scott, it's already up over a couple grand now.

[snakeman]

Couple grand ?keep it.Does'nt look too healthy

[snakeman]

These people are crazy if they think they are going to make big money off of it.Nobody is going to pay very much for babies.My albino flames are a hard sell at 400 and they are way better looking than that snake.

[ConcinusMan]

It's not really about the looks of the snake, now is it? This is way more rare than an albino anything but yeah, a couple grand is absurd. Snake doesn't look healthy at all.

[infernalis]

Look what happened to the albino red sided prices in just one season...

But I think that has more to do with saturation of the market.

Albino flames are still a "new" morph, so they should command top dollar.

[snakeman]

Look what happened to the albino red sided prices in just one season...

But I think that has more to do with saturation of the market.

Albino flames are still a "new" morph, so they should command top dollar.
Not too many people willing to pay that amount of money.

[infernalis]

the economy has a lot to do with that.....

[ConcinusMan]

"New" does not mean it should command top dollar. Too many other factors involved that affect price.

I'd just as soon buy any other albino garter with red on it.

[infernalis]

Its all about personal taste...

Albino flames are really pretty animals. But I also like black, so a "normal" flame is still red hot in my eyes.

[ConcinusMan]

They are fantastic. I really love the black flames with rich deep red sides found in the wild in quebec. I'm just not willing to pay the prices they demand. At least, not yet.

[infernalis]

I traded baby snakes for my flames. My big girl was traded for 2 hets. ;)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6596

[gregmonsta]

It's a bit like any fashion .... which is why I refuse to pay any more than £100 a snake. Look at the royal python market where profiteering has reached some absolutely silly heights.

Yes, it may be new, but that doesn't justify the price tag in my book. Same with most albino morphs/etc in my book. Saying the price is justified due to the amount of time involved creating a certain morph is also a load of rubbish. While in pursuit of that certain morph lots of other babies will have been generated and sold on .... it's not as if morph breeding doesn't cover its costs while it's in progress.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

That is super cool... But it's also super unnatractive (no offense it's just my taste!) I think it would be cooler if it had a normals garter pattern in the brown areas... Or like Tom said... If down the road pied melanistics are produced. I am sad to see that it's rather thin... That snake should be fat and gravid right now... To me it should be a huge red flag to the potential buyers of this thing... I see the guy has wasted no time posting it for sale on fauna attempting to get as large a sum as possible for her... while many people don't see much wrong with that I feel it's a bit shallow. I really do hope she ends up in good hands FAST though regardless of how much they pay... She's not going to last long in her current state!

[sschind]

I am with you Don on the normals. I enjoy a nice "normal" garter as much as any of my morphs.

Wayne I understand that it being rare makes it worth a lot but that still doesn't make it any prettier to me. I guess if I found something like that though I would think it was the coolest find ever, but right now I just equate it with the money side of things.

-Thomas

I have yet to see ANY morph of ANY animal that I think is better looking than a really nice normal. Yeah some of them are neat looking but not better.

[GartersRock]

That is my major concern about someone spending several grand on this snake it the chances of it dying seem very high looking at the pictures... I really truly hope she doesn't. I LOVE the way the pied trait is expressed here. Like the BPs with the washed yet rich in the colored areas. Sorry Shannon I think it's stunning! And how much prettier would it be if she was fat and healthy.

I had a thought about spending the $ in hopes to make more $ off her later. Maybe the people who are willing to shell out the money are more hoping just to keep her alive and breed her and it's the price they are willing to pay to keep that morph alive? Who knows...

[sschind]

That is my major concern about someone spending several grand on this snake it the chances of it dying seem very high looking at the pictures... I really truly hope she doesn't. I LOVE the way the pied trait is expressed here. Like the BPs with the washed yet rich in the colored areas. Sorry Shannon I think it's stunning! And how much prettier would it be if she was fat and healthy.

I had a thought about spending the $ in hopes to make more $ off her later. Maybe the people who are willing to shell out the money are more hoping just to keep her alive and breed her and it's the price they are willing to pay to keep that morph alive? Who knows...

Very few people in my opinion would spend that much money for a morph without the hopes of recouping their money, and then some, down the road. I know there are aficionados out there who simply want the rare stuff but the desire to have it without the intent to breed is rare these days. I know 1 person who has had BP morphs for about 6 years and has never attempted to breed them. I know of one other guy who has a nice number of morphs, some very expensive ($20,000 plus he paid for a couple of them), all males with no intentions of breeding them. The first guy is just a hobbyist who likes certain morphs, the other guy is a very wealthy man who has a very nice collection. People like this though are few and far between.

I'm not saying that is bad. I am sure a lot of people on this forum would like to have that snake for the rarity of it and would certainly appreciate that aspect but, and no offense is intended, I'd bet anything if they bought it they would try to breed it.

Personally it doesn't concern me in the least what others are willing to spend their money on. I just hope that whoever buys it is able to keep it alive. What they do with it is up to them as long as it is treated humanely.

[BUSHSNAKE]

snake morphs have turn snake breeding into an art form! Art+Science...ya dig?

[Scott F]

Shannon,

I made an offer last week and part of it was that it would be rescinded by Saturday if not agreed on by then for the very reason you brought up. Often in bidding wars they can go on a for a while. Lets just hope the boy knows what he's doing, he is being guided/helped by Chuck so lets hope whoever gets it takes good care of it and breeds it. There is a chance she could be gravid now as I had a few this year had no clue were prego's but they popped.

Scott

PS Nobody contacted me so guess am out of the running. I didn't expect to get it but I had came up w/ some creative options to increase the chances that I would.

[snakeman]

Unless you get it Scott, I really don't think we will see this snake again.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Unless you get it Scott, I really don't think we will see this snake again.
I agree!

[GartersRock]

Very few people in my opinion would spend that much money for a morph without the hopes of recouping their money, and then some, down the road. I know there are aficionados out there who simply want the rare stuff but the desire to have it without the intent to breed is rare these days. I know 1 person who has had BP morphs for about 6 years and has never attempted to breed them. I know of one other guy who has a nice number of morphs, some very expensive ($20,000 plus he paid for a couple of them), all males with no intentions of breeding them. The first guy is just a hobbyist who likes certain morphs, the other guy is a very wealthy man who has a very nice collection. People like this though are few and far between.

I'm not saying that is bad. I am sure a lot of people on this forum would like to have that snake for the rarity of it and would certainly appreciate that aspect but, and no offense is intended, I'd bet anything if they bought it they would try to breed it.

Personally it doesn't concern me in the least what others are willing to spend their money on. I just hope that whoever buys it is able to keep it alive. What they do with it is up to them as long as it is treated humanely.

I never said maybe they don't want to breed her. I said wouldn't it be cool if someone wanted to breed her to keep the color phase alive and take what they get for the babies but not worry about getting rich off her. Does that make sense? Obviously they will want to breed her. :rolleyes::p And obviously that is thinking very positively and I realize we live in a world where very few people think that way...

And Scott... You gotta keep trying man! I agree that we probably won't see her if you don't get her...

[sschind]

I never said maybe they don't want to breed her. I said wouldn't it be cool if someone wanted to breed her to keep the color phase alive and take what they get for the babies but not worry about getting rich off her. Does that make sense? Obviously they will want to breed her. :rolleyes::p And obviously that is thinking very positively and I realize we live in a world where very few people think that way...

And Scott... You gotta keep trying man! I agree that we probably won't see her if you don't get her...

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. All I said was that anyone (or the vast majority of anyone) spending that kind of cash is going to be hoping to make a profit on this snake and not simply "taking what they can get for the babies." I'm not saying that preservation of the morph does not play into it but it plays into more from the aspect of the longer I can preserve this morph the more I can make off it than anything else. This is primarily an investment for someone.

[infernalis]

piebald flames anyone??

[Tyrel26]

beautiful snake, I just hope it reaches good hands soon. If I found something like this I would rather give it to someone that would take good care of it (like many of the people on this forum) than sell it to someone that dosn't have a clue how to take care of it; even it the price was in the thousands.

Just because someone is willing to pay a high price don't make them more likely to take better care of it. It could wind up in the hands of someone that simply wants it just to say they have something very rare.

[gartermorphs]

I actually have a friend with a piebald flame thats a male i had know idea that it would be worth so much and i know that he doesnt know because he has several piebalds one of wich he actually caught wild

[snakeman]

oooookay.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I actually have a friend with a piebald flame thats a male i had know idea that it would be worth so much and i know that he doesnt know because he has several piebalds one of wich he actually caught wild

lol.... sorry but I am not buying that one. what are you smokin'?! Piebald flames? come on now.... pics or it didn't happen :rolleyes:

[infernalis]

lol.... sorry but I am not buying that one. what are you smokin'?! Piebald flames? come on now.... pics or it didn't happen :rolleyes:


post of the day. ;)

[ConcinusMan]

I was thinkin' it.

[gartermorphs]

how do you post pics i have one of it on my email! there slightly blurry but its dfinetkly a flame piebald garter!

[Stefan-A]

how do you post pics i have one of it on my email! there slightly blurry but its dfinetkly a flame piebald garter!
Save it on your computer and upload it to the Gallery (tab in the upper right corner of the screen).

[gartermorphs]

here it is i printed it offmy email and took a pic of the pic with my digital camerafile:///C:%5CWindows%5CSystem32%5Cconfig%5Csystemprofile%5 CDocuments%5Csnake%20pics.docx

[gartermorphs]

aahhhhhhhhhhh it didnt work!!!!!!!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Is this some kind of torture, Beth.:D

[gartermorphs]

i tried to load it to the gallery but it said it was to large dp any of yall know what s wrong sorry for the wait im not very computer savvy!

[guidofatherof5]

If you have a photo editing program you can save it as an email ready format. That should reduce the overall file size and allow it to be uploaded.

[gartermorphs]

i dont so im still tryin to figure it out

[Tyrel26]

why no email the photo directly to one of the ppl here and they can add it for you

[bsol]

Email it to someone here and they can post it for you!

[bsol]

why no email the photo directly to one of the ppl here and they can add it for you

haha...

[Tyrel26]

I win!!!! lol

[ConcinusMan]

WTH?

I still want to see that piebald flame!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I PMed her and asked her to email whatever photo she has to my email. She hasn't been on yet o get the message, so we will see!

[infernalis]

I PMed her and asked her to email whatever photo she has to my email. She hasn't been on yet o get the message, so we will see!


I did too. :D:cool:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

great minds think alike! :o

[gartermorphs]

sorry guys my iternet was down for a day or twoo we had some really big storms im in the process of sending you both emails

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I did not recieve an email

[gartermorphs]

watt?????????????? i sent it are you sure u didnt get it???????????

[snakeman]

please stop

[Jeff B]

you guys aren't going to believe this, but I found a red-sided on my driveway today but it's green and orange with blue blotches, with a black dorsal stripe and it's belly is solid pink, I was thinking about keeping it but then I decided to just let it be free, my neighbors cousins brother who was visiting from Arizona took pics and I will post pics as soon as I get them from them.

[Nir]

you guys aren't going to believe this, but I found a red-sided on my driveway today but it's green and orange with blue blotches, with a black dorsal stripe and it's belly is solid pink, I was thinking about keeping it but then I decided to just let it be free, my neighbors cousins brother who was visiting from Arizona took pics and I will post pics as soon as I get them from them.

The thing I don't understand is that if it's your neighbors cousins brother... It's just your neighbors cousin....

[Tyrel26]

i think he meant step brother lol

[ConcinusMan]

I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by "green and orange with blue blotches, with a black dorsal stripe and it's belly is solid pink"

Sounds like the makeup job on some of these hispanic gang girls on the west coast.:p (see Gwen Stefani's makeup in music video "No Doubt - Ex Girlfriend")

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

you guys aren't going to believe this, but I found a red-sided on my driveway today but it's green and orange with blue blotches, with a black dorsal stripe and it's belly is solid pink, I was thinking about keeping it but then I decided to just let it be free, my neighbors cousins brother who was visiting from Arizona took pics and I will post pics as soon as I get them from them.

hahahaha. I love you for this Jeff!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Must be an inside thing going on here ^^^

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Must be an inside thing going on here ^^^

haha okay the deal is, he is joking. He's making a joke out of the fact that we all know there's no such thing as a piebald flame garter as of now, and that we've asked to see photos and of course, no photos have been produced, because such an animal does not exist! If it did.... I think somebody would know about it by now :D

[infernalis]

Give me a minute, I think I may be on to something.

http://www.thamnophis.us/ssnakess/masubius4.jpg

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Oh my god.... it DOES exist!!!

[ConcinusMan]

You just had to put that at the top of this page, didn't you. That was mean. I never clicked to see a previous page so fast in my life! I think if a piebald flame existed, we'd know about it but...


haha okay the deal is, he is joking. He's making a joke out of the fact that we all know there's no such thing as a piebald flame garter as of now, and that we've asked to see photos and of course, no photos have been produced, because such an animal does not exist! If it did.... I think somebody would know about it by now :D

I was just trying to help the joke along.:D

Let's not be mean to gartermorphs. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe there is some trouble with producing the photograph.

I'm still waiting to see a picture of an albino concinnus rumored to have existed at one time. Call me a pessimist but I don't think one has ever existed. If it did, could we be sure it was a concinnus? heck no. Can't hardly tell if the normal ones are true concinnus. I just know, one has never been documented in the wild and therefore probably doesn't exist anywhere.

BTW, bigfoot is real. Got a pair of them in my basement. One of them is piebald, the other, albino.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

we're not being mean. If I wanted to be mean, I could! really!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm still waiting to see a picture of an albino concinnus rumored to have existed at one time. Call me a pessimist but I don't think one has ever existed. If it did, could we be sure it was a concinnus? heck no. Can't hardly tell if the normal ones are true concinnus. I just know, one has never been documented in the wild and therefore probably doesn't exist anywhere.

I am sure one exists SOMEWHERE. heck, probably more than one. Think of all the tiny remote populations that nobody ever sees.... and think of all the snakes that everyday people find/see and they have NO idea that it's actually an extremely rare morph of snake. For every albino snake we find, I am sure there are 10 more than will spend their entire lives unnoticed and never found. That is, if they don't get eaten right off the bat.

[ConcinusMan]

Somehow, after you put it that way, bigfoot does seem possible.

Actually, never saw a melanistic, or nearly all-black concinnus before Don's litter this year. I'm really routing for him the little guy to make it, and for him to produce more of them.

[drache]

damn! I can't find it
just within the past couple of weeks I encountered some video footage of a large african bird that buries their eggs in mounds that they pat smooth on the outside with their super large feet, and the locals call it big foot
but damnit - I can't remember where I saw that

[snakeman]

There was definitely a albino red spot.There used to be a pic on the old thamnophis site.

[Eddie]

The picture of that albino red spot is the reason I bought my first pair of red spots in the first place.
Someone must have that pic somewhere!
Ed

[Jeff B]

Does that mean you guys don't believe me???

I would believe an albino red-spot exits.

I would also believe a pied flame could exits, it's very possible, would love to see pics though.

[Jeff B]

Wayne, what is the bid up to now on your pied flame? Whatever it is I will bid one gazillion dollars more. Money is no object with an animal like that, who cares if it lives or dies tomorrow.

[infernalis]

Wayne, what is the bid up to now on your pied flame? Whatever it is I will bid one gazillion dollars more. Money is no object with an animal like that, who cares if it lives or dies tomorrow.

For you Jeff, just pay the $10,000 shipping fee, and I'll give you the snake for free as long as you promise to send me some babies when it breeds.

[gartermorphs]

ok i sent the picture to the people who asked me to email it again please check your emails harder because the email is in my sent box!

[gartermorphs]

and first of thx jeff for standing up for me second of all you guys really were being rude its not my fault im computer savvy and now ive sent it to both people a second time so if theres any problem please tell me or maybe its there but u guys didnt check hard enough

[gartermorphs]

oh and thx coccinous man you guys were both very nice

[ConcinusMan]

There was definitely a albino red spot.There used to be a pic on the old thamnophis site.

Well then somebody screwed up bigtime and failed to produce more.:rolleyes:

I'm still dying to see that pic though.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I saw the pic of the albino red spot....was on the old thamnophis site...pic is long gone now... :(

[infernalis]

I just got this in my email from gartermorphs.... Thanks Beth. Looks off, like someone painted the poor snake. Or got it wet and rolled it in flour. It's just not right. (Sorry Beth, no disrespect) There is also some bad photoshop work too, look how some of the grass blades just don't fit.

http://www.thamnophis.us/snakes/pieflame.jpg

[gartermorphs]

ya thats what i thought at first my computer sux so i couldnt tell if it was photoshopped or not sorry guys

[gartermorphs]

its not my pic i was just showing yall what a friend of min sent me

[ConcinusMan]

That is a pretty terrible pic.

[Nir]

That is painted... How can someone fall for this??!!??!? hehe

[GartersRock]

Wow... That's a picture of a painting...

[infernalis]

its not my pic i was just showing yall what a friend of min sent me

Not blaming you at all. ;)

besides, it gave us all a good chuckle and some opportunity to make some fun. (not at you)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

that's a picture of an actual painting... not photoshop work. you can see the strap of the camera dangling there and then you can see the shadow cast onto the painting from the strap. It's a real painting that somebody did.... did somebody actually try to pass that off as a real piebald flame to you Beth?

[gartermorphs]

yup i have a really sucky moniter so i couldnt tell if it was fuzzy or wat come to think of it itdoes look really wierd expecially when you putit up against other garter photos

[gartermorphs]

jeez that is a really bad pic and to think he tried to sell it to me for 250 now im laughing at myself i cant believe i fell for that

[infernalis]

Good thing you didn't pay for it. ;)

[Jeff B]

Beth, I was just messing around and having some fun, this isn't the first time something like this has come up in the snake world, unfortunately there is no shortage of "con ARTISTS" in the snake business', don't take it personally cause it wasn't meant to be, I'm just a goofball, and you unfortunately my friend were the inocent victim of a con'.

[charles parenteau]

Sad but true!!

[gartermorphs]

thx but anyways i was wondering does anybody know somebody whos selling albino checkered garters i cant fin them anywhere and id really like to get at least one?

[guidofatherof5]

Beth, I was just messing around and having some fun, this isn't the first time something like this has come up in the snake world, unfortunately there is no shortage of "con ARTISTS" in the snake business', don't take it personally cause it wasn't meant to be, I'm just a goofball, and you unfortunately my friend were the inocent victim of a con'.

He's telling the truth, this time..................... He is a goofball:D
Said with the best of intentions. :)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Who is this guy??? If he was seriously trying to scam you he should be turned in! That is just ridiculous! I am glad you didn't fall for it.

[gartermorphs]

his name is matt tucker does that ring a bell for anyone????

[Jeff B]

Ahhhh yes Old Matt Tucker....no doens't ring a bell actually:p

[gartermorphs]

Ahhhh yes Old Matt Tucker....no doens't ring a bell actually:p
lol^^