Black colored T. elegans vagrans?

[Hollis_Steed]

Would anyone like to take guesses if this is a black colored T. elegans vagrans, or a T. sirtalis fitchii? I caught him in an area that is home to both. Photos of top and bottom...

[Stefan-A]

Nice. :)

Time to count supralabial scales. On both sides.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/supralabials-vagrans.jpg

[Hollis_Steed]

His head is so black it's hard to tell but it looks like 7...

[Stefan-A]

On both sides? A certain count would be necessary. T. elegans usually has 8 on at least one side of the head. T. sirtalis should have 7 on both sides.

Anyway, I'd put my money on vagrans.

[Hollis_Steed]

Thanks Stefan,
I'm going to have to get a second set of eyes to help me count and figure it out! These bi-focals are just not doing the trick!:D I may have to have my daughter take a close up photo like the one you show so I can get an accurate count. Like I said, this guys head is so dark black it's hard to distinguish!

[ssssnakeluvr]

definitely vagrans!!! I have caught several like that up there!!

[Hollis_Steed]

Vagrans was my first impression. He's kind of dirty with mud and dust right now but he should clean up nice. I'd like to see a photo of someone else's if anyone knows of one.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

that's definitely a t. elegans vagrans!!! I had one that looked just like that!:D

[ConcinusMan]

Oh yeah. Definitely vagrans. No need for scale counts. Looks like she "wandered" into an oil spill. :p

[BUSHSNAKE]

labial scale counts seem to be useless cuz they can vary even within the same sp. or ssp.

[Hollis_Steed]

I'm giving this snake to Don on Saturday so I guess I'll find out for sure when he's able to take a closer look at it. I sounds like the consensus is vagrans for now.