Hello from Northern Utah

[Hollis_Steed]

Hello all,
I've really enjoyed all of the valuable information I have been able to find on this forum! I have been a "critter keeper" for all of my life (almost 50 years!). I, like many, had always thought of Thamnophis (garter snakes) as "trash" snakes! but now my fascination has grown 10 fold! Again, I really appreciate the information you folks are sharing, it is fascinating. As I am really just "seeing" these little guys for the first time I have a few questions I hope you can answer. I have a couple of Thamnophis Elegans that are the typical brownish gray color with the yellow stripes. I also have a couple of snakes from the same area that are much darker, what I would almost call black, with the red checkers and the yellow stripes. Are they the same Thamnophis Elegans, or are they something else? My next question is, do you use a dish to feed? or do you just put the cut up night crawlers or pinkie mice in their enclosure and let them find it on their own? How long should I leave the feed in there if the snakes aren't showing any interest? thanks for taking the time to answer back!

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard. :)

[MasSalvaje]

Welcome! It is good to see some Utah representation.

From your descriptions and if these snakes you have were caught somewhere near your home you have a Thamnophis elagans vagrans or the Wandering garter snake, and a Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi known as the Valley garter snake.

Wandering is by far the most common type found throughout the state while the Valley is only found in the northern part of the state.

I am sure Don will chime in here too, he is the man when it comes to Utah (and across the board) garter info. Feel free to ask any of us any and all questions that may come up.

-Thomas

[ConcinusMan]

I agree it sounds like Hollis described T. sirtalis fitchii. So yeah, that would be a completely different species than the wanderings. Give them plenty of room and keep snakes of similar size. Wanderings are known to eat other garters, even their own kind.

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Hollis :)

[ssssnakeluvr]

Welcome to the forum!! yes, as Thomas said, the ones with the red are the valley garters, thamnophis sirtalis fitchi. The wandering garters, thamnophis elegans vagrans are real common here in Utah. what part of Utah are you in? I am in Salt Lake City...well out in Magna...on the outskirts of the city. :cool:

[drache]

welcome to the forum, Hollis
if you keep your garters in individual enclosures, you can leave them food in a dish
when you house them in groups, you can do that also, but then it's wise to watch to make sure no accidental cannibalism occurs
I tong-feed many of mine; some of them like a little simulated movement

[ssssnakeluvr]

also....valley garters are primarily frog eaters in the wild, but I usually can get them to take fish pretty easily.

[Hollis_Steed]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!
Thomas, thank you for the apparently correct identification of the garters I have.
Rhea, thanks for the ideas on feeding!
Don, I live up in Smithfield in Cache Valley. Can you give me a good idea on how to feed fish? do I feed pieces of fish or do I find small ones or what? so far the Valley Garters have been eating night crawlers with no problem. I quarter them up and the snakes eat them right away. Finally last night I was able to watch both of the Wanderers eat thawed mice. one of them ate two pinkies and the other at a medium size thawed mouse. The valley snakes seem much more fidgety and lively and "aggressive" than the wanderers. Is that typical? or will they settle down as time goes on and they get used to me and being handled?

[Mommy2many]

Welcome from Connecticut. I use a dish to feed. I know they are all hungry when they are congragating around the food dish!:D

[Charis]

Hello & welcome from Idaho!

[ConcinusMan]

also....valley garters are primarily frog eaters in the wild, but I usually can get them to take fish pretty easily.

Valley garters can be seen feasting on small fish about 30 miles east of my location in the Columbia River Gorge so given the opportunity, they will definitely go for fish. In drier climates like eastern OR and WA, they seem to rely more on rodents since amphibians and fish may be in short supply much of the year.

[Hollis_Steed]

I finally picked out one each of the wanderer and the valley snakes that I caught last week. I let the other two back in to the wild near where I caught them. The wanderer ate two small f/t pinkies but wouldn't touch the night crawlers. The valley LOVES night crawlers but won't touch the pinkies! At least they both have eaten now, it helps me relax a bit and start enjoying them! From the pictures I've seen online about visually identifying the sex, I think I have two males. I have them in separate tanks and they seem to be doing fine. The "valley boy" seems to be a bit more skittish and doesn't seem to like being handled. The "wanderer" on the other hand doesn't seem to mind at all being handled. He is very curious and seems to want to climb up, up, up everything. I assumed he would be content on the ground but he seems to be a real climber. Neither of them seem to use their "hides" that I have provided. They seem to want to be out where they can watch what's going on. Thanks again to everyone for all of the good advice!