san fran babies :)

[viper]

hi all,

firstly im new to the forum and im just looking for a bit of advice..

my san fran girl gave birth to 13 healthy babies last wednesday, they are now a week old. my question is what is the best way to get them feeding? i have offered small earthworms and trout but all showed no interest.

thanks in advance xx:)

[reptileparadise]

Congrats!

I see a US. flag under your name, where are you from?

Most sirtalis are easily fed on small pieces of fish. Some species like it mixed up with pieces of earthworm...

[viper]

Congrats!

I see a US. flag under your name, where are you from?

Most sirtalis are easily fed on small pieces of fish. Some species like it mixed up with pieces of earthworm...


oops, hadnt got round to editing my details yet, im actually in the uk :)

what shall i do if they show no interest? i have tried both of the above and non of them were interested. shall i wait a little longer until they have shed? (they shed once they were born but not again since)

[ConcinusMan]

I've had concinnus babies refuse food for a month after birth. If they are good size and not getting thin, don't worry too much. They just got done absorbing the remainder of their yolks so they have some reserve. Keep offering various food items though. Have you tried chopped pinkies or live guppies yet? Bits of frogs legs is worth a try too.

[infernalis]

I was going to suggest live guppies...

My California garter snakes (closest relative to San Frans) were super fussy starting out, live fish and cut up pinkie mouse strips were all they would eat as babies.

Now they eat whole pinks and cut fish just fine.

[Scott F]

Try placing the snakes in small deli cups w/ just the fish and leave overnight. Maybe leave a little water so the fish can flop around and garner interest from the snake.

Scott
.

[infernalis]

Try placing the snakes in small deli cups w/ just the fish and leave overnight. Maybe leave a little water so the fish can flop around and garner interest from the snake.

Scott
.


Excellent suggestion, works well.

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum! try cutting up the earthworms, maybe a tiny bit of water. I notice that my squiggles all come running when they smell their food!

[Journey Fan]

Hello from California...
Is there any chance that you would part with 2.2 of your San Frans? The only way we can keep this kind is if we get them from over seas.
Thanks JF

[infernalis]

Hello from California...
Is there any chance that you would part with 2.2 of your San Frans? The only way we can keep this kind is if we get them from over seas.
Thanks JF


Could you please be so kind as to show us where that bit of information came from??

To the best of our collective Knowledge, it is illegal to posses them at all in the USA.

[ssssnakeluvr]

yea, they won't allow us to have them period.... if you kjnow of a way to get them that would be awesome!! even with documentation that they came from overseas, they still won't allow them AND the shipper also could get in trouble.

[infernalis]

Not to mention that PROVING that those papers are for the snakes in question would be a tough cookie without say for instance a DNA profile attached.

If an endangered species is illegal for private parties to keep, it's straight across the board simple as that.

[viper]

thank you all for your kind replies, i offered them chopped earthworms and it would appear that most have eaten these. there are the odd couple that have not yet started but they have good weight. i will keep offering a bowl of these as up to now they will only take food if it is moving..

once they are feeding well i will mix in some chopped pinkies and some fish and hope they will take to this :)

as far as i was aware also it is illegal to posess san frans in the us as they are a protected species, id be interested in seeing any evidence to suggest otherwise though :)

[infernalis]

thank you all for your kind replies, i offered them chopped earthworms and it would appear that most have eaten these. there are the odd couple that have not yet started but they have good weight. i will keep offering a bowl of these as up to now they will only take food if it is moving..

once they are feeding well i will mix in some chopped pinkies and some fish and hope they will take to this :)

as far as i was aware also it is illegal to posess san frans in the us as they are a protected species, id be interested in seeing any evidence to suggest otherwise though :)

Congratulations on getting some to eat.

[sschind]

oops, hadnt got round to editing my details yet, im actually in the uk :)

what shall i do if they show no interest? i have tried both of the above and non of them were interested. shall i wait a little longer until they have shed? (they shed once they were born but not again since)

good thing otherwise you may be getting a knock on your door from F&W.

Congrats on the babies.

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, viper :)

[viper]

ok, now the question is how do i get them to eat food that is not moving ie pinkie strips and fish strips.... most will eat earthworms but i have been advised against feeding these as they contain very little nutrition? x

thanks xx :)

[ConcinusMan]

Earthworms are fine. They just not as an exclusive source of food, and they have to be fed a lot, and often. Most of my snakes will eat f/t pinkies and silversides as well as live fish or night crawlers so I don't really know but you can try cutting a few night crawlers in halves and putting them in a dish with pinkies. Shannon showed a trick a while back on how to trick worm eaters into eating pinkies so maybe she can chime in and help you out.

[guidofatherof5]

ok, now the question is how do i get them to eat food that is not moving ie pinkie strips and fish strips.... most will eat earthworms but i have been advised against feeding these as they contain very little nutrition? x

thanks xx :)

I would have to take issue with the "very little nutrition" in worms statement.:)
The main food source for my radixes and the wild ones is night crawlers.
Night crawlers might be mostly water but whatever else is in there must be very good for garters. The radixes in my area grow big on them.
I feed 70% worms and 30% pinkies with a little fish thrown in as a treat once in awhile.

[Hollis_Steed]

Steve,
I like the sound of 30% pinkies, 70% nightcrawlers, with a fish thrown in for good luck! It just sound right to me. How often do you feed and how many nightcrawlers does an adult eat at a feeding?

[guidofatherof5]

As many as they can steal, beg and stuff into their guts.:D

Seriously,
My large adult females get 4-6 night crawlers. Tweens get 2-3 and Juv. get 1-2. Babies are on cut-up crawlers and usually eat until they are stuffed.
An adult male will eat 3-4. 4 if he's a big male.

[Hollis_Steed]

Once a week? Every other day? How often do you feed this regimine?

[Journey Fan]

thank you all for your kind replies, i offered them chopped earthworms and it would appear that most have eaten these. there are the odd couple that have not yet started but they have good weight. i will keep offering a bowl of these as up to now they will only take food if it is moving..

once they are feeding well i will mix in some chopped pinkies and some fish and hope they will take to this :)

as far as i was aware also it is illegal to posess san frans in the us as they are a protected species, id be interested in seeing any evidence to suggest otherwise though :)

Hello Viper,
Since you are going to give them worms which have gut loads of various bacteria, etc... why don't you try tadpoles? There must be a pond close by. It is spring and around our place the frogs are croaking and busy reproducing. My garters would always eat tadpoles. Then you can wean them off after the put on some weight. Keep a few frozen frogs around to help you scent the pinkies later.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hello Viper,
Since you are going to give them worms which have gut loads of various bacteria, etc... why don't you try tadpoles? There must be a pond close by. It is spring and around our place the frogs are croaking and busy reproducing. My garters would always eat tadpoles. Then you can wean them off after the put on some weight. Keep a few frozen frogs around to help you scent the pinkies later.


If you get nightcrawlers from a good source, such as the ones DMF bait co. farms, I would feed those to a snake any day over WC tadpoles... the problem with grabbing tadpoles and frogs from the wild is 1) you are depleting their population when there are better options out there and 2) you have no idea what those tadpoles may or may not be carrying in and on them (parasites?)

there is nothing wrong with worms, they are an important part of a garter snake's natural diet, some species will feed exclusively on worms and slugs... worms living in high quality soil are even better because they target the richest things they can find to eat and they pack themselves full of nutrient rich food that will benefit the snake that eats it. if you have a really finicky snake that will only take worms, if you feed him adequately he will grow just as fast as a snake feeding on pinkies. worms are a great starter food for baby garters because most babies will eat them and it's very easy to get a baby to eat worm scented pinkies right off the bat. I got my snow, albino and my flame to eat their first pinky pieces while still in their shipping container by scenting with worms. It is true that they LOVE tadpoles and at times, tadpoles are needed to save a finicky baby from starvation, but starting garters on a wild food source that is only available seasonally, and that is not available to everyone is a bad idea. Sometimes garters like tadpoles too much and will not want to eat anything but those or items scented with it. This is a huge inconvenience to anyone who wishes to own a snake you are rearing. Hope this helps!

[ConcinusMan]

I agree with shannon. If you aren't concerned about parasites (they don't necessarily harm a WC garter) then you must get your garters feeding on things available most if not all of the year and only give them tadpoles a few times during that season if you wish.

I have fed WC Oregon Red Spots that I really am not concerned about giving them tadpoles and small frogs from the very same location where the snakes were found, but I don't have the time to go out and catch wild food for them. However, I do occasionally during the short window for catching them. A small bullfrog here, a few tadpoles there but for the most part they get tons of night crawlers (they love 'em) and luckily, they take pinkies and silversides, available year 'round.

And somehow, "san fran babies" turned into a feeding discussion.:cool:

[viper]

thanks very much for you replies. just want to clear up one point, my san frans are CB not WC or LTCs :) all but 3 are feeding now on earthworms, i get these farm reared and i keep them in the most rich substrate i can to ensure the worms are as healthy and nutritious as can be :)

3 are refusing everything and here in the uk it is a problem taking tadpoles from the wild, a lot of frogs are protected and the like.

as far as nightcrawlers go, are these even sold in the uk? i cannot seem to find any sources over here :o

any suggestions on getting the 3 troublesome feeders started? id have to chop pinkies for the rest as they are far too big to be taken whole xx

[gregmonsta]

'Nightcrawlers' are our lobworms ;) .... you've already got what you need. As for the slow starters this may just be par for the course. You do get some that never catch on. Tetrataenia can be very tricky due to the amount of inbreeding in the available bloodlines which has resulted in smaller offspring/litter sizes and failure to thrive. If you're breeders are brother and sister then I would sell all the offspring singly to make others source distant relatives from another bloodline .... I would also look at replacing one of the breeders with fresh blood.

[viper]

'Nightcrawlers' are our lobworms ;) .... you've already got what you need. As for the slow starters this may just be par for the course. You do get some that never catch on. Tetrataenia can be very tricky due to the amount of inbreeding in the available bloodlines which has resulted in smaller offspring/litter sizes and failure to thrive. If you're breeders are brother and sister then I would sell all the offspring singly to make others source distant relatives from another bloodline .... I would also look at replacing one of the breeders with fresh blood.


thanks, from what i was told whan i bought the parents they are not related :) all babies have now fed, the 3 slow starters took a pre-kill feeder guppy that i left in their water bowl overnight, ill try them with a slither of trout next feed and take it from there :) thanks everyone for all your help, im so pleased all 13 have fed x

[ConcinusMan]

Just about all of them are related.

[gregmonsta]

Just about all of them are related.

:rolleyes: aye, but breeding cousins as opposed to brothers and sisters is still a better option.

[ConcinusMan]

:rolleyes: aye, but breeding cousins as opposed to brothers and sisters is still a better option.


I suppose so.