Pregnant Thamnophis

[hitsurfer]

Hi everybody.
My parietalis x tetrataenia female (110 cm., 300 g.) is probably pregnant - I have observed mating three times from the 15th march - 10th april - and she's getting fatter and fatter. This is my first time breeding Thamnophis so any advice are welcome.

I have "googled" that if breed successful live babies will be born after 60-90 days - what are your experiences?

I have thought about removing her to a escape proof plastic box (about 70x40x15 cm.) with newspaper as only substrate, a water dish and a smaller plastic box inside for hiding/moisture box with vermiculite inside it. A temperature of 28-30 degrees in the hot end, and 20-22 degrees in the cold end of the box. And then feed her a little less than I use to.

Does that sounds like a good plan?

Thanks, and sorry for my poor "danish-english";-)

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum!

[ConcinusMan]

Welcome!

Dang! that's a big girl! I would definitely avoid the newspaper. Babies tend to stick to it when they're born, then the newspaper sucks the moisture out of their membranes, they get stuck, and suffocate before they can break free. Also, they can get underneath it and get smooshed by mom.

Vermiculite isn't bad, but it will stick to everything moist, including newborns.

Temperatures sound OK.

When she's getting close to that time, remove the water dish and offer mom a chance to drink at least twice a day. Some moms will give birth in the water and drown the babies, or they will fall in and drown. Feed her moisture rich, easily digested food if possible. (such as night crawlers or fish pieces) If you feed her rodent food, make it day old mice. Feed her small meals often as long as she keeps taking them.

It can take over 100 days for some girls to pop but you can probably safely expect them to arrive between 70-90 days.

[hitsurfer]

Thank you very much!

Yeah, she's extremely big, I have never seen a Thamnophis that big before! She's like an average pantherophis guttatus:-)

OK, so everything in my plan is ok, besides that I should avoid any substrate in the cage? A moisture box isn't necessary? Thank you for the advice on the water dish, I haven't thought about that. I think I will offer her at very small and low water dish.

It's very hard this waiting and especially because I don't know for sure if she's really pregnant:-) But she's extremely fat so I believe she is

[infernalis]

Myself I prefer bark (or other "chunky" substrates) for birthing.

It helps to break up the membrane.

[ConcinusMan]

Probably won't hurt to have a moisture box but use paper towels. If you don't use bark, paper towels for the birthing container are fine, just don't use newspaper.

[bkhuff1s]

Thanks for the heads up on the water bowl. So they could come as early as 70 days then? I know this was someone else;s thread, but I thought it might be pertinent. I thought it would take at least 90.

[ConcinusMan]

it's hard to say how long. I know that my T. ordinoides (Northwestern garter) can have them in 60-90 days but my T. s. concinnus (Oregon Red-spotted) usually take 90-110 days.

[bkhuff1s]

Interesting, anyone with experience with Pugets would be of appreciated help. Next week is nearing the 60 day mark.

[bkhuff1s]

She's about the shed, does that mean she's close? She shed about a month ago as well.

[ConcinusMan]

She's about the shed, does that mean she's close? She shed about a month ago as well.


I've seen my snakes shed in mid to late stages. It doesn't indicate anything except that she needs to shed. The need to shed can be because she's expanding and her old skin is just too tight. That could be the reason she's shedding so close to the last shed. So no, it doesn't mean she's close but it usually means she's getting bigger.

Try to see her when she's somewhat stretched out, not curled up. Are her scales in the last 1/3 or so of her body separated, with skin in between? In other words, scales don't touch each other? When she gets that far expanded, it won't be long.

Oh, also, if you cool her down at night (you should for a few hours) down to 65-70 F, you might notice some muscle twitching in that area of her body in the morning. That's her attempt to generate heat to warm up the babies. You see separated scales, twitching around 70 F, you know it's getting close and it's time to remove the water dish. She may begin to act strangely and twitch a lot, 12-48 hours before birth, even when it's warm.

That's just my experience. Experiences vary.

[hitsurfer]

When you say "bark" - do you then mean brown, moist repti-bark for example?
Sorry for my questioning - but I really don't want to screw anything up - it's my first time:-)

So to be sure: when it's getting close, I remove her to a box about 70x40x15 cm. (escape-proof) with an inch or so repti-bark as substrate, a shallow dish or not a dish at all, a hiding spot and a temperature gradient of 22-30 degrees.If i keep the substrate moist, it won't be necessary with a moisture box. Did I get it right?

I really wanted to post a pic of the giant but i don't know how to do it. Not only for boasting but maybe some of you could tell whether she's up to gave birth or not.

Greetings from Denmark

[ConcinusMan]

make sure it's well ventilated. I use zoo med reptibark, but any brand will do as long as it is fir bark pieces for reptiles. I still wouldn't moisten the bark. If it's new, it will be moist.

Perhaps maintain a dry hide, and a hide with moist paper towels in it. You want dry substrate for the most part. If they need to retreat into a moist place, the box with moist paper towels will be there for them.

I upload my images to imageshack and let imageshack resize to 640X480. Once the image is uploaded successfully, I click to view full size. Right-click the pic, then "copy image location" (using firefox, IE might use different words, like "copy url")

Then when you make a post here, you click the "insert image" button. right-click and paste the url in the box that pops up. go advanced and preview your post and you can see if it was done successfully, then post. It's not hard once you get the hang of it.

[bkhuff1s]

There is alot of skin showing between the scales, here. It's almost as wide as the scales themselves.