Hello! A couple questions

[Dragonfiremule]

Hello! I joined this forum a couple days ago, and I've been lurking. :D I joined mainly to do research about garter snakes, because I'm interested in getting one sometime later this year.

Anyway, first things first, a couple questions. ;P

I heard that slugs are high in calcium and the like. Is this true? And if it is, is there enough calcium and the like to be able to avoid adding vitamin powder and stuff on his food? Or would I still need that? (Since I'm not planning on feeding live fish on a regular basis.)

What, in your opinions, is the best substrate for someone new to snakes? In regards to the easiest to clean/safest/cheapest.

Oh, and how sociable are garters? I know it depends on the snake, but as a whole, would you say they're the more aloof sort, or sociable?

Also, I live in Southern Cali, and I've noticed it's EXTREMELY difficult to find a garter snake because of all our stupid laws (I went to 5 different reptile stores in the area. Nada.) I've been thinking about buying one from either Scott or Dan or Jeff (I've been stalking you guys. :P), but since I'm so far away, shipping is really expensive. More then the actual snakes I'm interested in, actually. Anyone know anyone closer to me?

Oh, I read that a garter snake enclosure shouldn't get above 80. In the summer here, room temp can easily get above that, especially if my parents are trying to save on the electric bill. Should I worry about it, or do you think it'll be fine? I mean, if it gets above 85 or so in the house my parents turn on the AC, but I was wondering if even that was too hot. (Summer last year got up to 115 degrees F outside.... see what I mean about room temp easily getting above 80? D: )

So, now that my main questions are out of the way, a little about me;
I'm a 15 year old girl who is just ending my Freshman year in highschool. This will be my first snake ever, and my second pet. (My first being a hamster.... when I was 7.) I've been kinda hesitant in getting one, since I know they live a long time, and I'm not sure how responsible I'll end up being, so I decided to research my heart out (When in doubt, do research. A motto I live by.). Yeah, so I live in a suburb in extremely Southern Cali (Around an hour north of San Diego). Anyway, nice to meet you!

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum. All good questions.
I'm impressed with your responsibility to the snakes future.
You've come to the right place.:)

[Charis]

Hello & welcome! Kudos for doing your research first!
I'm not sure about the temps, so I'll let someone else answer that one. Generally, garters are very sociable. Though it can vary from individuals, females are usually more calm & easier to handle. In comparison to lots of other snakes, garters are way more active & seem to have a lot more curiosity than most other snakes. I like to compare garters to hamsters, boids & pythons are usually content to sit in their owners lap & not move for hours. Where as garters like to explore when you are holding them. So unlike with the boids you have to pay attention to them the whole time you are holding them. Some people don't like them because of that, but others love them for it, since they are a more interactive snake.
Don't know about the slugs. But most garters will take Frozen/Thawed fish just fine if you don't want to feed live. Petco carries frozen whole silversides in with the frozen fish food supplies. They are a safe fish to feed & aren't real expensive.
The cheapest substrate is newspaper, it's pretty good in most respects, you just need to change it quite often. Aspen is good too, you can spot clean it once or twice a week & then only change the whole thing every month or two. Those are the two substrates I use & what I like best of all I've tried. Hope that helped you some!

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum! Glad to see you are researching before adopting. There is a lot of info here from many people. Please don't hesitate to ask about anything. We are all here to learn from each other.

Many people here (myself included) adore having the garter snake as our companions because they are very social and interactive. They come in many colors and varieties and are easy to care for overall.

Good luck!

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Dragonfiremule :)

[Dragonfiremule]

Thanks for all the warm welcomes!

@ Charis - Thanks for answering quite a few of my questions!
I didn't know that they sell frozen silversides, although I did know that was a good option for live fish. Thanks!
I'll probably go with Aspen for the bedding; it sounds the easiest since I don't want to constantly have to clean out the entire cage. Thanks for telling me about it.

@Mommy - Yeah. I had to get a snake that wouldn't eat mice (since my mom strictly forbade it), and Garter snakes topped the list because of how pretty they are. :D I was just making sure they were sociable; I don't want a snake I can never touch!

[guidofatherof5]

They are down right gregarious. They also have mind control powers.
You will find yourself drawn to them by some unseen force.:D
These are all good things.:)

[ConcinusMan]

Or, they could downright brainwash you and make you their slave, like this guy for example ^^^.

Aspen is OK, but newspaper pellets or carefresh is good. Really, if nothing else is available, you could just line the bottom with newspaper, and shred some newspaper by hand, making a pile for them to hide in. Newspaper needs to be completely changed frequently.

For natural looking substrate I prefer a mixture of fir bark and coconut fiber. If your enclosure is large enough and not too crowded, you can just sift it through a screen once a week(remove feces and clumps) and keep using what's left as long as it doesn't stink. It lasts a while.

Whatever you use, it needs to be absorbent and kept as dry as possible.

For my snakes I make sure one end is around 70-75 in the daytime, and the other end can be 80-86. It's better to error on the cool side, than to overheat them. A 10-15 degree drop in temperature at night is important, or simply turn off heat sources so the whole tank drops to room temperature at night. Also important is a regular day/night cycle (use a timer) otherwise, they could get confused and refuse to eat.

[Dragonfiremule]

Thanks for the info, Con.

Do you have an idea for how I could make the one side cool? Obviously in the summer I won't be using a heating pad at all. Do they make cooling pads? Something to keep the cooler side at 70 ish? Nighttime gets to around 60-70, so I'm not worrying about the day/night cycle in summer, at least.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't know how big your snake is, but if the room is about 70 degrees you can accomplish the temperature gradient in a 10 gallon screen top enclosure by placing a 40 or 60 watt ceramic heat emitter above(12 inches above, on top of the screen) one end of the tank. Just my opinion, but I think heat from above is better for garters. Heat pads can cause problems. IF you do use one, I recommend putting it on the side of the glass, not below.

When using heat emitters or basking bulbs, don't forget to monitor humidity. They can dry the air. 50-70% humidity is good. If it gets too dry, you can mist the area under the heat bulb and that will increase humidity.

Don't forget most garters cannot tolerate dry air below 40 percent and they are very tolerant to cold, but not heat. Too cold and they'll live. Too hot and dry and they'll die quickly.

At the same time, if kept constantly too damp and cold and they are vulnerable to skin and respiratory infections.

I don't mean for it to sound overly complicated. Garters are very easy to care for, and tolerant of short term "less-than-ideal" conditions. I'm sure you'll do fine.

[bkhuff1s]

My experience (being the two pugets I own) are very social. Never struck at me despite being wild caught.

[ConcinusMan]

I wasn't sure how to take "social", I mean, does that mean social with people, or social with each other?

I've had wild snakes in captivity less than a week. They wouldn't strike you as wild caught either. Means nothing.

[Snakeknot]

A great place to buy snakes is to find a local reptile show. You will buy from breeders so you will get snakes cheaper than any pet store. And when it comes to garters, a lot of pet stores will tell you to feed them crickets! A big no-no! Reptile shows are addictive! If you need to talk to someone about snake keeping, there's a lot of good info there. ( If you ever get fed up with the internet and want your info NOW! )

FIND A GOOD HERP VET! I love mine and he has been a wealth of knowledge.

I'm a new mom to a baby, wild caught, garter. So far I can only get her to eat salamanders. ( I AM trying to switch her to better food. ) But she LOVES her silly-manders! Babies are very fast! Try to get something older and well acclimated to people. I have her in little tank in the bathroom window and she tends to wander the tank whenever someone takes a shower and steams up the place. So far she has yet to bite me but she has musked me several times! Please get a domestic bred.

I have several snakes. I started with sand boas. They're very slow, fat and colorful and they don't get that big. Sand boas are also a great starter snake. ( Yes, they eat mice but your mom really needs to see them. They just look different.) Then I have a couple corns. They're very pretty and gregarious with people. But garters are different. LOTS of personality!

Welcome to the list! Enjoy your studying!

Devon

[Charis]

As long as your night time temps drop down as much as you say they usually do, the garter should be fine. Might make sure he has a nice big bowl of water to climb into to help cool off. It probably also depends a bit on the species of garter you end up with. Some are more used to really cold conditions & some to more temperate climes & would do better at those temps. Occasionally my room got up to 85 last summer & the garters did okay. But I really don't like to be that hot, so usually turned the AC on & kept it at 80 instead.

[Tyrel26]

Quote "I have her in little tank in the bathroom window and she tends to wander the tank whenever someone takes a shower and steams up the place"

I was wondering if this is a good place for a garter? I honestly dont know but i would be concerned about overheating due to the sun and too much moisture from the steam, also if she is still musking maybe she should be in an area with less traffic for now.

Like i said im not sure and im not trying to pick on you but you seem to care very much for your snake and im sure some of the guys here could tell you more.

[Stefan-A]

Quote "I have her in little tank in the bathroom window and she tends to wander the tank whenever someone takes a shower and steams up the place"

I was wondering if this is a good place for a garter? I honestly dont know but i would be concerned about overheating due to the sun and too much moisture from the steam, also if she is still musking maybe she should be in an area with less traffic for now.
I agree.

[infernalis]

I have her in little tank in the bathroom window and she tends to wander the tank whenever someone takes a shower and steams up the place. So far she has yet to bite me but she has musked me several times! Please get a domestic bred.

Devon


Sorry, but that is the last place I would dream of keeping any snake....

[Snakeknot]

First of all, since she is a wild caught, that is the only "snake free" room in the house to keep her separate in. Secondly, we live in the woods and the window gets very little direct sunlight. Our house also dates back to the 1870's so its on the cold side most of the time. The upstairs bathroom is actually one of the few large rooms in the house. I'd rather keep her in the bathroom than the attic which, with slate roofing, cooks or freezes most of the time or the basement which is cold and VERY DAMP most of the year long unless the wood stove is cranked and then it is too hot and very dusty. Either of these rooms has a temps much too difficult to regulate. And I use aspen as bedding, fluffy enough for her to burrow in. I'd like to use something else but that's what is easily available here for bedding.

Devon

[drache]

I have a tank in a window also
it only gets early morning sun filtering through a tree - modifiers

we get rather high temps in the summer and I move some of my less heat tolerant animals to the basement
in terms of garters, I'd go with a southern ranging species, such as T. marcianus (checkered garter)

[Dragonfiremule]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. :D It makes me feel welcome.

The only questions left is the one involving slugs; otherwise you guys answered the rest. Thanks! =D

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. :D It makes me feel welcome.

The only questions left is the one involving slugs; otherwise you guys answered the rest. Thanks! =D

You have enough of an interest in garters to put up with the restrictions and stuff to finally be able to post, of course you're welcome!

We answered the rest? Well apparently we're not doing our duty or our answers would have brought up 20 more questions. :p

[Odie]

They are down right gregarious. They also have mind control powers.
You will find yourself drawn to them by some unseen force.:D
These are all good things.:)

No, it is the Force.:D

[Dragonfiremule]

@ Concinn - Well, I've researched Garters pretty well already. With several different sources to check for dud information and the like.

Although, your comment did remind me. I'm thinking about getting a T. Similis (So pretty!) but I wanted to know if anyone sells them aside from Scott. (If I bought one from him shipping would be $50. D: )

[infernalis]

Not too many garters will even eat a slug.....

As for nutritional value, Storeria (brown snakes and red belly snakes) thrive and do well on a slug diet.

[ConcinusMan]

ordinoides in the wild will sometimes eat slugs, but only the introduced european garden slugs. They don't dare tangle with a native Pacific Northwest slug. That would be bad.

[Dragonfiremule]

ordinoides in the wild will sometimes eat slugs, but only the introduced european garden slugs. They don't dare tangle with a native Pacific Northwest slug. That would be bad.
I've never even SEEN a Pacific Northwest slug. XD I was talking about the really small brownish ones in my backyard. Which I think are European garden slugs. XD

Yeah, I was thinking of getting a Storeria, but I wanted something a little bigger then that. Those things are tiny!

Thanks for answering my questions, everyone. :D

[Odie]

ordinoides in the wild will sometimes eat slugs, but only the introduced european garden slugs. They don't dare tangle with a native Pacific Northwest slug. That would be bad.
My Ordinoides love them :eek:

[ConcinusMan]

Are you sure those are native slugs? I don't know what you're feeding them but any native slug I've ever found would be like trying to swallow a ball of wet super glue.

[Odie]

Yes, but 1/4 the size of a pinky or same size as a big earthworm :D
Not any of the big slugs :eek: Like you said superglue :rolleyes: