Sat. morning Vet. visit

[guidofatherof5]

After waking up the snakes down stairs I was checking on my female group of T.s.parietalis(Red Sided Garter snake). It was then I noticed one of my smaller females had what appeared to be a blockage just above he cloaca. It was very hard and I immediately call the Vet. It was one of those come now appointment times. I also took another snake I wanted advice on.
Once at the Vet. it was decided a mineral oil enema would be the course of treatment. He left with the snake but returned a few moments later. He said the the blockage was too hard and that he didn't want to force anything for fear of damaging her. He felt the only things that could be done was to leave it alone, in which case he felt she would died or do surgery to remove it. I opted for the surgery which should be happening about now. I'll post results as soon as I know anything. She'll spend the weekend at the Vet's office.

The other snake I took in was one of my large rescued T.radix(Plains Garter snake) females from last year. Her name is River. I removed her from a yard where it was a "leave or die" thing. She was under weight and at first I thought she was a very large male. She has thrived on the Ranch but I've noticed as she's put weight on it seems to be only in the bottom 2/3rds of her body. A couple months ago I had her x-rayed. It was possible that she was gravid so nothing was done. Now, 2 months later things are the same. She feels blotted. She active, eating well and in all other areas a normal radix. My concern is that this is some kind of infection that will eventually take her life. He also doesn't think she is gravid and recommended a course of antibiotics.
She's been place on Albon everyday.
http://www.pfizerah.com/Product_Overview.aspx?drug=AO&country=US&lang=EN&species=FL
Here's a couple photos of my girl River. She has the biggest set of eyes I've every seen on a radix. I hope and pray she comes through this OK.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/River.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/River3.jpg

[gregmonsta]

Fingers crossed for your girls Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

Surgery has been postponed until next week. He said she's not handling the anesthesia well, probably due to stress. This will be a stressful weekend for me now.
She doesn't have a name but I hope the best for her.

[gregmonsta]

The blockage itself will be uncomfortable enough. Your vet knows best. Leaving her to settle for the weekend will hopefully do the trick.

[Snakeknot]

If she pulls through you'll have to name her...... uh what's the watch brand whose theme is "takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'"?

All my lucky healing wishes are winging your way. Get out your butterfly net.

Devon

[ConcinusMan]

Provides a licking too.:D

Damn! those are big eyes. Wait... I hear something...


Ptttt!!

Oh, she's OK now. She just needed to fart.:p

No, seriously, you really go too far Steve. Surgery on a wild garter snake. A very common, plentiful garter snake. I admire your intention but I am afraid I would just let nature take it's course. I don't think we do them any good by saving the "inferior" one's so they can go on to breed.:cool:

You must have one heck of a cool vet. There's no way I could get them to treat a garter snake around here. Even if my vet (or any vet in WA) were willing, the bill for something like that would be in excess of $300. Money that could be applied to save soooo many more than just one.

However, that gives a me a feasible idea. There are people studying and whatnot, who are very qualified to perform such a surgery, have access to enough drugs and knowledge of anesthesia, (well, you get the idea) to right here at our local colleges. I think I ought to put feelers out and get a few on my list for just such an emergency. Once they become actual doctors, with a practice, they are sympathetic but can do nothing.

I wonder if she has a twist, tumor, or other abnormality causing her to be prone to blockage?

[guidofatherof5]

[QUOTE=ConcinnusMan;129031]

No, seriously, you really go too far Steve. Surgery on a wild garter snake. A very common, plentiful garter snake. I admire your intention but I am afraid I would just let nature take it's course. I don't think we do them any good by saving the "inferior" one's so they can go on to breed.:cool:

You must have one heck of a cool vet. There's no way I could get them to treat a garter snake around here. Even if my vet (or any vet in WA) were willing, the bill for something like that would be in excess of $300. Money that could be applied to save soooo many more than just one.
QUOTE]


One day a man was walking along the beach when he noticed
a boy picking something up and gently throwing it into the ocean.
Approaching the boy, he asked, “What are you doing?”
The youth replied, “Throwing starfish back into the ocean.
The surf is up and the tide is going out. If I don’t throw them back, they’ll die.”
“Son,” the man said, “don’t you realize there are miles and miles of beach and hundreds of starfish?
You can’t make a difference!”
After listening politely, the boy bent down, picked up another starfish,
and threw it back into the surf. Then, smiling at the man, he said…”
I made a difference for that one.”

It makes a difference for the ones I have.
If they're in my care they will get care.
It's the little things we do in life that make a big difference. My children are watching me and learning about care,concern and compassion. Watching my kids care for a downed bird or injured snake is worth any money I would ever save by not caring for these animals. Sitting and grieving with my kids at the lose of a wild anything is priceless.
We're not rich in the sense of money but my family is rich in many other ways. This is the legacy I want to pass on to my children.

[ConcinusMan]

Admirable. You would have to be rich, but live poor to do that here! I mean, I think my vet bill for 4 pomeranians is about $1600 a year. For all the injured snakes I've seen, if I got them vet visits and treatment, the bill would easily be 10 times that. :eek:

[infernalis]

Steve is a one of a kind, one of the best friends I have ever known, the world could use a few more just like him.

Caring for that injured snake was more gratifying to him than the steak dinner he could have bought with that money, so I say keep it up Steve.!

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, I know. I like him too. And he's definitely one of a kind. I just tend to say what's on my mind. That last sentence really confirms it. Giving IS a selfish act. Think about it. We give where it won't necessarily do the most good. We give in a way that makes US feel better. There is a reward.

[Snakeknot]

I don't have room to speak. I'm getting laser therapy on my sand boa when just yesterday someone told me not to waste my time and just neosporin the wound and give him warm baths!

I don't have kids, but kids need to be taught the truth, not recycled gossip and myths that are so prevalent nowadays! Its also very important that they be taught to care. I have an in-law with three kids and no animals are allowed in the house, not even fish. I feel so sorry for those kids. They LOVE animals. The flip side to that is kids not exposed tom animals grow up treating them like THINGS without any feelings and torment them for their own amusement.

I much prefer the way Steve is doing it! Those kids are gonna grow up saying, "I had the coolest Dad! He let me have snakes and everything!"

Devon

[prattypus]

I agree- kids need exposure. I went out with my nwphew and his friend. We came across a wandering, I asked his friend if he was going to pick it up- HE TRIED TO STEP ON IT. His justification was that he wanted to be able to get a good hold on it- I asked him why, and he told me it was just a snake.

Throughout the day we caught a couple, and he told me he had never been that close to a snake. He named them, an even started telling me about what they were doing. I'm sure he hasn't been turned 180, but he didn't know better. Hopefully with more outings he will get more into the flow of gently catching them.

[infernalis]

My daughter is the whole reason we have snakes now. She caught Xena (my first Dekayi, recently passed from old age) in the back yard and asked if we could keep it.

At least two of my kids will likely have snakes when they are all grown up.

[ConcinusMan]

That's awesome. I was one of those kids growing up that first encountered a snake (actually dozens of them) when I was about 7 years old. (1977). I was instantly facinated. One might even say obsessed. And of course, that hasn't changed. Mom and dad of course said yes when I asked "can I keep him?"

[drache]

not sure what to say about your vet situation, Richard
I guess I'm very fortunate to have found not only several vets in my life-time that were in it for their love of animals, but even one who's a herp nut with a particular passion for garters; I was however taking my animals to get regular checks and appropriate treatment when needed even when I had nowhere but that clinic where they charged a base fee of $80 and would only schedule one herp per day
when I found out about the great vet, I got the zipcar membership, so I could have a car for the 50 minute drive. turned out to be well worth it. Now that he's moved to Pennsylvania, I even manage to cop rides for my animals, although that really doesn't work well in emergencies
it irks me when someone refers to garters as less worthy of care in some way, as does seem to occur from time to time on this forum.

[Tyrel26]

i agree with guido and drache, everything is worthy of compassion; even the mice we feed our snakes. Ive seen posts from a lot of good people on this site and Ive seen some post that I really dont care for. Too many people keep snakes simply because they are "cool" or merely for the vast variety of colors that can be obtained through selective breeding. I agree that all there colors are beautiful but i dont see one that is worth more than another, be it a pet youve had for years or a snake that you just found injured in your driveway.

Knowing there are people like guido out there makes me happy, because millions of people fear and hate snakes, thousands seek to kill them, many find them interesting, a few like them but there are very few that truly care for them and there are ever fewer that will do what he does to help them.

Also some people say that they went to a pet store or an expo and seen a few snakes that were in "rough shape" so they wouldnt buy them....these are the snakes i look for, they may die but ill do my best to make what time they have left better than the times theyve seen so far.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh let's not bring that up again. I've already said all there is to say about animals as food items. I love garter (and all) snakes, and I feel for the mice. I do what it necessary. I have no problem with feeding a garter snake to a king snake, for example. Or even a king snake to a king snake. Done that too. That pissed off a few people, but oh well. I'm sure it pisses other people off that I feed mice to snakes. That's just the way it is. You can have compassion AND feed your snakes whatever animal it is that they need and like to eat.

All I was saying before is that it is possible to do harm to the species or population by coddling and saving the weak/sick ones. Those are the ones that would have probably become food for other animals, in their weakened condition. Save them, and they pass on whatever genes they have, and possibly their proneness to illness or whatever ales them. I don't think we should interfere in the case of a species that is not endangered. I can also admire what he is doing, and why is doing it. I just wouldn't do it myself, especially considering the expense involved.

I love you steve, you're a great man with great values. I just wouldn't do that myself. :)

[Tyrel26]

didnt mean to bring anything up again and my post was not directed at you. I do agree with you on the compassion and being able to feed....yada yada lol

All i am saying is I think it great that he does what he does, and like you due to the expense involved I cannot take wild animals to the vet. If i am able to help them from my home i do; and if i am not and the animal is either suffering or has no chance of recovery I end its life to end its pain; be it a tiny snake or a 1500lb moose. (and no i didnt bring the moose home haha) If the animal seemed to be sick i destroy the body, if it was injured i returned the body to nature to feed whatever finds it.

again, i didnt mean to solo you out. I appreciate your feed back and opinion, and i just posted pics of a new garter that you may find interesting

[guidofatherof5]

I appreciate all your kind words but it really boils down to the fact they are in my care. I have a responsibily to give them the best chance at life
None of them are throw aways. I have and will continue to put down snakes when that time is called for. But if a snake is sick I don't think it's weak or genetically flawed. Our animals get sick and we take care of them.
My time with a snake named Tang was costly(money wise) and he was a wild find. I left that whole ordeal with a much deeper understanding of garter snakes and how to care for them. I got my monies worth. He was worth all the time and effort even though he died.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5623&highlight=Tang

[ConcinusMan]

And how could anyone possibly argue with that. I mean, I'm good. I can argue against something even if I am in agreement. I cannot possibly argue with that. ^^^ You win. I cannot think of anything to say in argument! Wow! You're good!

[guidofatherof5]

I received a call from the Vet.
My little Red Sided female passed away before surgery could be done.
The blockage was in the colon. He said it was a hard calcified substance. I asked if it could be urates? He said no.
I'll pick her up tomorrow for a proper burial at home.
My Vet. is concerned that this situation may involve pinkies. I informed him I feed 70% worms and 30% pinkies and I haven't had problems with other snakes.
At this point, what happened remains a mystery

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear that, Steve.

[drache]

oh no, Steve - I'm so sorry for your loss

[ConcinusMan]

Shoot. If all this news of dead snakes doesn't stop soon, I'm going to lose it.

Sorry steve, you tried. :(

[gregmonsta]

Really sorry to hear that she didn't make it Steve. It's harder when you don't get an idea of the cause for the problem.
You tried buddy, and that's what counts.

[mustang]

wow steve sorry to hear that....somthn like what we humans call kidney stone im guessn?

[guidofatherof5]

wow steve sorry to hear that....somthn like what we humans call kidney stone im guessn?

She was an older snake and a troubled eater from the beginning. She would eat in spurts. Good at times, then go off food for an extended period.
She was in one of her good eating times when this problem arose.

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/River.jpg


UPDATE

Things are not looking very good for River. She's off food and still very bloated.
I took her to the Vet. on Thursday for another evaluation. Another X- ray was taken and does not show any kind of blockage. The cause of her edema is still unknown. She's now on Prednisone(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone)) in the hopes it will jump start her system and reduce the edema. My Vet. has calls into some of his colleages for more advice. He did advise that things are not looking well and at some point she may need to be put down.
I've decided that when and if that time comes I am going to get a full necroscopy done on her. It won't be cheap but I need answers. It would be a shame to lose her.
She was a rescued female from last year. She was very skinny when she arrived and may have had some medical issues at that time.
She did get a Vet. visits a few weeks after she arrived. A fecal was done and she was parasite free.
I have noticed that she is more active since she was put on the med. She will get some outside time tomorrow to increase her activity level.
I think she is an older snake but feel she still has a few good years left if I can get her through this incident.
I want those big beautiful eyes around awhile longer.

[gregmonsta]

I'm rooting for her mate. Lets hope your vet's peers can add an insight or two.

[Mommy2many]

Thoughts are with you and River.

[guidofatherof5]

River passed tonight. As far as I know it was quick. None of those convulsions or death rolls.
Next, I'll get a hold o f the Vet. to see if the necropsy can still be done. My big eyed girl is gone.

[Hollis_Steed]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

[gregmonsta]

Really sorry you lost her Steve.

[Quibble]

Im so sorry Steve. Its so frusterating when theres a lack of answers. High hopes for the necropsy, knowledge is the only good thing to come of this.

[Mommy2many]

Sorry to hear of your loss.

[guidofatherof5]

I went to drop River off at the Vet. for her necropsy. I was unprepared to have it done right then and there. I was also upset that I had no camera with me.
Once he had her open it was easy to see the massive amount of edema present.
Her intestines were ruptured and to be honest didn't look anything like intestines. Her liver was also compromised. Its color was good but was covered with white dots. Her gaul bladder was also ruptured. It was a mess. I've never seen anything like it.
Her heart and lungs looked good. Samples were taken and will be examined.
It's a shame my big eyed girl had to leave this way.
I only hope that some answers will come from this necropsy that will help not only my snakes but all garter snakes.

[snakeman]

sorry Steve