Last Supper

[guidofatherof5]

It looks like I've located another thread that was lost a few months ago.

I've seen this phenomena occurring over the last year and thought I would post about it.
It involves those tough eaters or failure to thrive snakes. It occurred over the last couple of days which reminded me of it.
I had a failure to thrive baby which was on the brink of starvation. Just when I thought I would have to put her down she started eating and eating good. I couldn't have been more pleased. I made a point of feeding this little girl everyday. For two weeks things were going well and then it happened. She stopped eating but remained interested. A few times she would grab the earthworm but appeared unable to maneuver it to swallow it. Her weight dropped rapidly and this morning I put her down.
This is something that has repeated itself at the Ranch over the last year. It's like the snake makes one last effort to make it but something prevents that success. I'm sure this situation repeats itself in the wild many times.

[gregmonsta]

It could be that the failure to feed in the intitial stages doesn't allow the digestive system to 'switch on'. Definately an interesting observation.

[guidofatherof5]

It could be that the failure to feed in the intitial stages doesn't allow the digestive system to 'switch on'. Definately an interesting observation.

Good thought, Thanks.

[gregmonsta]

Another thought - It might be easier for them to transition onto food earlier, while they still have remnants of yolk inside thier bodies, allowing the body to gradually move over to the new food source instead of finishing one and them immediately having to adjust to another.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm sure this situation repeats itself in the wild many times.

Of course it does. And often in their weakened state, they become food for other animals. An important resource for a healthy ecosystem.

It hurts to see any garter suffer or die. When this happens in captivity, what happens to the little one's body? I'm guessing it doesn't contribute to the nutritional needs of any creature higher on the food chain but it's comforting to know if you bury the body outside, it could perhaps support worms, which support garters! yay!

I really like you steve and I'm not trying to pick at wounds. It's just that there is a bigger picture happening here and i thought it might help to comfort you. No dead snake need be a waste. There short lives do have meaning if they are returned to the earth.

"From dust thou cometh, to dust thou shalt return"

The elements that are our bodies, are returned to the earth, for the benefit of all life. In that sense, all living things are truly immortal.

[Tyrel26]

great way to put it Con, I have often though about how we ourselves bury our own dead; sealed inside boxes that contain many different chemicals....which is why i want to be buried naturally, in a plain wooden box or a cotton sheet.

Our last act on this earthly world shouldn't be one of pollution

[ConcinusMan]

I believe that as bleak as things look, as much perceived damage as humans are doing to the natural order of things, we are a part of that order. There's nothing we can do that can't be undone in time. The current mass extinction that is already well underway, helped along by us, may result in the extinction of at least 2/3 of the worlds species. That will also result in our disadvantage and a massive die off of humans. In time, balance will be restored and new life will spring forward and a new era of abundance will occur. This isn't coming from biblical or philosophical reasoning. It's plain science. If you want to attribute it to devine design or creation then all I have to say is the creator must know what he is doing. It's a brilliant design. I don't believe this horse pucky that man has the ability to extinguish all life on earth. If only microscopic organisms survive our assault, life will return with or without us.

[Stefan-A]

There's nothing we can do that can't be undone in time.
Sadly, I don't share your optimism. Even if we could, we wouldn't.

[ConcinusMan]

I didn't mean to imply that we would do the fixing. Quite the contrary, it would be better if we weren't around at all.

[redspot]

I feed failure to thrive snakes to my other snakes, no waste.

Humans relativity to Earths age are insignificant.

Nate

[guidofatherof5]

I just lost a little female that ate very well yesterday. I thought I had her over the tough stage. She's been one of those slow eaters.
I know that she probably had underlying issues but it's still upsetting to lose a nice little scrub.

[Tyrel26]

sorry to hear it

We save the ones we can and remember the ones we can't

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear that.

[Hollis_Steed]

Sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how tough that must be.

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry steve. I've had that happen many times before. They finally get around to eating, then eating seems to kill them. So sorry.

[The Snake Whisperer]

It also could be that these failure to thrive babies also have some kind of defect that can't be seen from the outside. I've always suspected immune system deficiencies to be a root cause of many unexplained conditions in animals, science has barely discovered the tip of the iceberg of knowledge of the immune system. Other possible factors are toxins or infection of the babies before birth.
I've had some of those "born anorexic" babies and also some babies that simply weren't strong enough to break out of their sacs who still died shortly after birth. Comparisons of numbers born versus numbers lost might give a good idea of how common these situations really are. I suspect that the numbers of babies lost in the wild to these two conditions is fairly high, but have never seen any statistics.

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, I do believe that many of the little ones that are lost due to "failure to thrive" had fatal defects the day they were born, or developed fatal defects during development after birth. There's not much you can do to prevent losing a few. Still, I found that those losses were reduced by feeding them small soft meals, often, instead of letting them gorge. Gives their system a chance to develop before pushing it to work hard for digestion. Number of babies lost in the wild is extremely high, that's why wild garters tend to have a lot of babies. Wild concinnus in NW Oregon/SW WA tend to have 25-50 offspring. I guess, to compensate.

Still, 'failure to thrive' babies from litters I've had in the past were fairly few. Out of the largest litter of 54, 40 made it to their first birthdays and beyond.(they were all born very small) Out of a litter of say, 25, all but 4 or 5 made it.(they were fairly big babies at birth)

[guidofatherof5]

I have two little radixes and two concinnus babies that may be suffering from this "last supper" syndrome. I've watched these 4 babies shy away from the food dish and also refuse all my attempts to feed them otherwise. This morning when I offered Trout, 3 of the 4 ate but it may be too late.
I, at one time would force feed some of these little ones but have never had one survive for very long. For this reason I no longer force feed any babies
I sadly understand that nature knows best in many of these situations.

[drache]

perhaps what befell two of my younger males this spring could be put in the "last supper" category, since both perished after finally eating - just when I felt the relief which an apparent turn for the better brings
neither of these males had ever been frail though
it was their first mating season; it took me a bit long to get them to eat; one of them got thin, but the other looked normal; one had rodent, the other worm; both died within 24 hours of that first meal
it's been a bit of a depressing spring in terms of losses

[guidofatherof5]

Hang in there, Rhea.
Hoping better days are ahead.;)