Been busy lately.

[redspot]

But Did get a moment to take a couple pics of my Anery Red-spot and a good looking regular. I now have 2.2 of the Anery's. It looks like Concinnusman was good enough to find my spot and ship a couple to others....maybe I should have been a little more discreet. Oh well it's a free country.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Thamnophis/DSC03787.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Thamnophis/DSC03789.jpg

Nate

[MasSalvaje]

Wow! those are awesome. That first one looks super blue.

-Thomas

[ConcinusMan]

Glad you're back! I thought you'd never show up.

You didn't REALLY let the cat out of the bag. I just took what little you did say, opened google earth and found what might look like the spot you were talking about. Then I took a leap of faith, made the trip, and got lucky. Geez, they were everywhere and I only saw one that looked even close to normal but he's still what I would consider hypoerythristic. Went back last Sat and found not one concinnus. It was only about 58 degrees and there were only a very few ordinoides out.

Don't worry, I won't go crazy. Shannon got one pair and I'll be getting one more I think, then leave them be. Since you have them, shannon has a pair, and myself, that should be plenty to keep these going in captivity. There's even a member in europe that already has one just like these.

That's a nice normal. Haven't found one yet this year!

Can't wait to see how the anery gene proves out through breeding. So strange to find so many anery's in one area. Odie has found them too.

I was telling Odie that all 3 of us should get together on go on a herping trip this summer, perhaps taking lots of photos and video, then come back and share our findings! NO collecting unless something like a melanistic or albino happens along. Just fun and observing.

[ConcinusMan]

Wow! those are awesome. That first one looks super blue.

-Thomas

It's more of a "sea green". Here's photo's taken by shannon, of the pair I sent to her:


http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6740&highlight=anery

Personally, I believe that the genes involved in these anery's affect xanthosphores in the yellow-orange range rather than erythrophores. Technically, that would make them axanthic but the affect on this particular species is an anerythristic affect so we call them anery. The blue/green hue is a clue that it is xanthosphores. there are actually RED xanthospores too. They range from yellow to red, and even violet. I believe concinnus, even very deep red one's, their color is made by xanthosphores, not erythrophores. I also believe that this mutation has an effect on a snake's appearance, even if it's only het. Only time and breeding can prove anything though.

[prattypus]

Personally, I believe that the genes involved in these anery's affect xanthosphores in the yellow-orange range rather than erythrophores. Technically, that would make them axanthic but the affect on this particular species is an anerythristic affect so we call them anery. The blue/green hue is a clue that it is xanthosphores. there are actually RED xanthospores too. They range from yellow to red, and even violet. I believe concinnus, even very deep red one's, their color is made by xanthosphores, not erythrophores. I also believe that this mutation has an effect on a snake's appearance, even if it's only het. Only time and breeding can prove anything though.
[/QUOTE]

See, I am glad there's breeders like you that wade through all the professory stuff- I just like looking at purdy snakes.:)

[ConcinusMan]

LoL:D Me too. Purdy snakes. One thing about me though, once a gain a little more in-depth knowledge about a subject of high interest, I must dig deeper. I can't control it. :o

I have bred snakes but to call me a breeder would not be appropriate. I have never sold offspring and I didn't know jack about genetics or pigments until I joined the forum.

I only came here with a couple of decades of experience keeping concinnus and a few other garters and kingsnakes, and of course, a love for garters. That's it. I am a humble hobbiest.

Lot's of snakes are "purdy" but I don't love them near as much as garters. I gave up a very pretty, large milk snake recently. Why? the love isn't there, and I got a 55 gallon long tank in trade to use for my true love. T. sirtalis Concinnus.

[redspot]

No worries, you did some good sleuthing, I wonder if it's the same place, PM me if you feel like it. I have a little bit of a clue about genetics regarding morphs but thats not where my interest lies. I understand about 50% of what you are referring to...

I could be down for some herping this summer, but 90% of my herping is looking for Zonata. I'm actually moving 6 blocks from the nature area and I still need to find some boas there.

Please keep the spot hush hush if you could, I like seeing the same snakes over and over again, I'm pretty sure that gravid red stripped ordinoides was one of my old friends.

Nate

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I like seeing the same snakes over and over again,


so do I! Out behind my work, I got every day on my lunchbreak, to flip the same rocks and see the same exact snakes. they don't even run from me anymore. I lift up the rock, say hi, and put it back down. I just enjoy seeing them surviving and I even have little names for a lot of them... oh look! Here is blackie! and hey there's caramel again! striker! no striking!

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, it's the same place. May not be the same exact location, but connected by suitable habitat, thus meaning, the same population, most likely. From what I understand, they aren't limited to one spot but can be found in all connected (by water and corridors) habitat in the area. Odie said so.

I was thinking the same thing about that red ordioides. Sure looks a lot like the one in the picture you posted! It was a spot with lots of dry leaves and during warm weather, a high concentration of snakes, so... den openings hidden there somewhere? A small pool of water with large bullfrogs nearby? muddy *** trail and "reed-like plants" nearby on the way to get there? Perhaps early on the path their might be a wooden ___ I even saw the rocks and fencing to hold the hillside together next to industrial buildings. I was there. I saw.

NW Oregon is for the most part, all anyone knows. Still, I think enough has been said publicly for someone to figure it out. I did, but then, I was close, AND was really wanting to find a concinnus den sight. I never have in 20 years. Only found ordinoides dens. This site obviously holds both.

Don't worry, I understand your concern. I share it. Not much can be done about what was already said. I have nothing more to say publicly and even shannon does not know exact location, not that she would tell, or go there.

I think we should cooperate, both in the interest of preserving the wild population, and in the interest of captive breeding/trade.

I'll PM you with my phone #

I know where to find zonata in WA, about an hours drive from Portland but there's absolutely NO COLLECTING. The population is highly protected and it's highly illegal to possess them. Park rangers are very protective but are willing to help you spot them.(as they watch you like a hawk) You can get 90 days in jail just for overturning rocks, logs, etc. The snakes on the other hand, are very shy and can usually only be spotted during breeding season (first few sunny days or a week or two above 70 degrees)

Even if you don't spot zonata, there's often ringneck snakes and very nice T. sirtalis fitchii in the area. Sometimes, a rattler too.

[redspot]

I've never seen rangers in the area I find them out there, but I'm also not going to where everybody goes. I'm actually hoping to tag along with a professional herpetologist to do some work on them. Currently I'm at five in the Gorge, 2 during breeding season, one on a 58 degree windy night and 3 on the hottest nights of the year. I've been going to that area for 5 years now specifically to find Zonata. This year I'm heading into central Oregon to try to connect the dots of the population gap, I'll keep my speculations private on that one.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/zonata1.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/racer.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/DSC01558.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/DSC02969.jpg

[redspot]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/DSC03355.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/DSC03114.jpg



http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/DSC02975.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/tokaysrnice/Herping%20the%20Gorge/DSC02930.jpg

[Tyrel26]

beautiful pics! wish i could experience something like that, but id probably spend an hour at each snake just taking pictures haha gotta get every angle ;)

and i agree with the privacy thing, ive seen many of my favorite areas ruined because someone else found out where i went and then someone else....and before you know it there isnt much left. same can be said for fishing locals, nesting areas for birds, etc... I've even givin up going to some areas just because its semi close to a community and i know if someone else figures out what im doing there it will be ruined

but i do hope you keep posting your pics, great work!

[ConcinusMan]

OK redspot, sounds (and looks) like you know exactly where I'm talking about and you've already had very good luck. Great pics! I have no problem with revealing where I go to see zonata, fitchii, fence lizards, etc...Rocky, lightly wooded (mostly oak) hillsides inside Beacon Rock State Park. I'm just saying the sweet spot for zonata there is usually watched pretty closely. I'm sure they can be found in more remote areas too.