Richard's new enclosure project

[ConcinusMan]

I purchased a small silent pump, netting, hydro balls, etc.,(zoomed waterfall kit) and happened upon some clear plastic packaging material that will serve a re purpose of containing enough water for such a feature in my new
55gal long setup project.

I am going to create a small trickle waterfall with live moss and temperate air ferns. I have already had good luck keeping the air ferns alive and healthy, as well as cultivating several (at least 4) very attractive yet distinctive species of moss. The remaining 7/8 of the tank will look "naturalistic" but be easy to maintain and practical/comfortable for garters.(dry reptile bark/coconut fiber) The moss does great in garter enclosures! No harm, fresh clean smell, helps create micro-climates, can be used on the cool end, or dry cover on the hot end, etc... It just goes dormant under very dry or hot conditions. Some of the very distinct varieties are very attractive. Closeups of the moss will be posted later.

The air fern (or two) stay small and grow on just about anything, even vertical surfaces. I plan to suspend/attach them above the bottom, on a cork bark/artificial background near the waterfall. The one shown is already attached to fir bark and interesting moss is growing with it.

I got this 55 gallon long enclosure in trade for my 4ft pueblan milk snake. I'll post pics as the project progresses and of course, when the snakes are settled in. I plan to keep 2 or 3 breeding pairs of concinnus, each pair being a different morph.

This will no doubt be the centerpiece of my otherwise small and humble collection. It will be concinnustopia!

Air fern:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1564/gedc1039.jpg

Tank:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3082/gedc1079.jpg

Please excuse the newspaper, that's only a temporary holding tank for now.:o No excuse for the shoe:p This is a new thing for me, as all of my past setups that were intended for snakes, were simple and practical. Now that I have enough room to accommodate the needs of live plants, moss, etc. AND snakes, I'm giving it a try. While the snakes are brumating in the winter, the plants and moss will be kept cool and allowed to get lush by spring.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9786/gedc1083.jpg

[gregmonsta]

Looking forward to seeing the end result ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Me too. Can't wait. Of course, the process is fun too. Waterfall kit scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I'll start setting that up first, then get the moss and plants settled in.

[De Foezel]

looks promising

[bsol]

Awesome! Looking forward to checking this out!

[ConcinusMan]

The moss growing on fir bark with the fern looks exactly like this picture, represented as "sphagnum moss" but I'm not sure. Don't know much about moss. I do know that this kind is a very dark green, is fairly easy for me to keep alive indoors and/or start new colonies from growing tips but it looks terrible if allowed to dry out and go dormant. Spreads EXTREMELY slowly. Almost NO peat layer per se but only the tips are green. Tends to grow in thick but small clumps on rocks with ferns and other moss. Rarely grows on it's own:
http://gardeningoncloud9.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/sphagnum-moss-01.jpg

The following type is more "thread-like" but looks great dry or moist, dead or alive. It can be found high up on live OR dead trees. It often forms very large mats. Usually grows in a dense, strong, carpet-like fashion on dead branches, or live tree trunks. It tolerates some sun and requires brighter light than most. Overall, a great performer in a well-lit (florescent) vivarium at 70 degrees cool end. Looks better alive but can be utilized long after it's dead. It has no peat layer to speak of, and grows on live OR dead branches in dryer locations than most moss around here. It is by far, the most common moss. Can survive months below freezing, or months dry, and still spring back to life.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9849/gedc1114.jpg

Sorry, pics are quite terrible. I've tried every setting imaginable. Sometimes I get lucky, but mostly not. I guess the points of unexplained light must be "pixie dust"

******

This one is a fairly new attempt. It's very "feather-like" almost like tiny fern leaves. Usually very close to the forest floor, usually on well-decayed fir bark on dead stumps in total shade. Very shallow peat layer. Not extremely common. It's "carpet" is very delicate and holds much moisture (and therefore weight) but is very delicate and will easily rip apart under it's own weight. I have yet to learn all the qualities of this one but I like the way it looks so far. The question is, how useful / good looking is it when dead, Does it do well indoors?, etc. It has a somewhat musty odor. Probably due to the rotten nature of its preferred growing surface, often with fungus. As a matter of fact, I let this dry somewhat and had a mild allergic reaction(I am sensitive to mold spores) Maybe not so good indoors but I like it's "leaf" structure. Very flowing, cascading. Like feathers on a bird of paradise.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8571/gedc1109.jpg

got my waterfall kit but I fail to see why they call it a kit. No matter what your situation, you need more things to set it up. I cannot buy what I have in mind. I'm definitely going to have to build something out of fiberglass and polyester resin. Hey, there's another business idea in my spare time. Maybe I could sell such water features. Lord knows I could do it cheaper and better than what you can buy around here. I'll no doubt have to purchase more material than I'll need. I'll make a spare or two.

[ConcinusMan]

Just for clarification, it looks like in order get what I really want, I'll be using the materials and method posted in this other thread. Won't look quite as desert-like but same principle. http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128930#post128930

[De Foezel]

:Dhoping u will succeed in building a kickass enclosure upgrade for your snakes:D

[ConcinusMan]

It's not an upgrade. It's an expansion. 1X 20 gallon long(holding tank with ordinoides) +20 gallon long w/concinnus +10 gallon for amy, and now a 55 gallon long! I've never had the opportunity and room to take on a large enclosure like this. I've always admired water features and the like, but always had limited enclosures/space/money so I opted for practical solutions before now. You know, newspaper pellets/aspen shavings/ cold steel water dishes, etc.

This time, I want to create the appearance of a natural ecosystem. (not possible to contain a real ecosystem)

I just want a bit of a corner with flowing water contained from the rest of the tank, with real live plants. the rest is just going to be reptibark/coconut fiber, a log/climbing structure, and garter snakes.

I know that I will probably make mistakes and there will be a need for adjustment. A "pretty" enclosure that supports a waterfall and plant life is only secondary. The snakes come first, even if i have to line it with newspaper or aspen shavings and only have a water basin. I think I will have fun finding a compromise.

Just an update: It will be at least 4 weeks before I can afford(and have time) to get materials to start my waterfall project. That needs to cure and function first. The rest will be easy. Anyway, I hope to have it completed by early July. That will free up a 20 gallon for babies!

[De Foezel]

if i understand u right u wont be using space in the enclosements
but rather u would add a "room" to your enclosures?
sounds very nice but hard to do....

[ConcinusMan]

if i understand u right u wont be using space in the enclosements
but rather u would add a "room" to your enclosures?
sounds very nice but hard to do....


No, not exactly what I mean. I do not wish to make compartments or rooms in the 55 gallon. I want a small portion of one end, with a fiberglass/poleyester resin feature to contain water and hide the pump. Sort of like a little waterfall you see for use in the home. Natural or natural-looking, but self contained and removable. AND I want a cork bark background or something similar. Think of it this way:

A fountain of sorts with it's own water supply contained and circulating in one unit on the very end of the 55 long tank. Perhaps some tropical plants and/or air plants near that end. The rest of the tank will be a traditional dry substrate such as reptibark, wood, and a large basking area, plastic plants. Plenty of hides/basking spots of varying temperatures. I think I can accomplish that much with the space I have in this one tank. Perhaps only 4 adult concinnus in there. That will leave a separate 20 gal long tank for a couple adult ordinioides and another 20 gallon long for concinnus/ordinoides babies later this year.

Amy will remain in her 10 gallon, and receive a future mate to stay with her. That should hold me over for about another year. No matter how it works out, I cannot afford to keep more, and I don't have the space for more tanks. All these tanks will fit in my humble bedroom. I like to sleep in the same room with my snakes. The sound of them moving around early in the morning or after dark, soothes me. Besides that, I will be alerted to any foul odors that are an inevitable occurrence, so I can deal with them immediately. I, like my garter snakes, seem to sleep better and have a more active day if the temperature in the room drops to a low in the 60's (F) in the early morning hours.

As you can see, one 20 gallon tank can sit on top of my new 55 gallon project and still leave plenty of open top space for air/lights. The florescent light fixture on the right end can hold 3 X 18 inch bulbs. Lighting will be flexible and I will adjust as the project progresses. I might end up using full spectrum basking spot lights on the warm end, florescent on the waterfall/plant end. We'll see. I am flexible.


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9786/gedc1083.jpg

I plan to manufacture a way to lift that 20 gallon an inch or two,
so air can circulate under it too, even while it's on top of the 55 gallon. the left end will be the hotspot/basking area. the entire top of the enclosure will be sturdy heat/corrosion resistant metal screen top with hinged doors where I need them. Already ordered it. you'll see. It's a brilliant plan if I do say so myself.

[charles parenteau]

Very interresting those moss ...

[ConcinusMan]

Some of them can be very difficult to grow but they look good dead too.

[De Foezel]

i dont know about those perticular ferns.
but i once read something about ferns that it could possibly cause breathing problems
this is because they have no seeds but spores on the lower side of the leaves( like a mushroom) these fall of when something strokes the leaf or when fully ripe
a spore is just like a seed but in miniature
i would think about putting them in your viv for 2 or 3 times
or at least look up some info

[ConcinusMan]

The fern doesn't bother me. I think the spores are too big to cause an issue. It's a licorice fern in case you're wondering.

I did notice however, that one of the moss types (spores) does bother me. makes my throat itch fiercely. I think I'll not be using that one.

[De Foezel]

ok so u do take that into account......
then i geuss itl be ok:D

[ConcinusMan]

I threw some of the elements together just to give everyone a rough idea what I had in mind. This is by no means complete and I'm not keeping snakes in it yet.(they're just posing for the pics) Screen top scheduled to arrive on FRI. The area to the right with the fern will feature a small pool of water and a trickling waterfall as soon as I build it. Also, I'll probably have a natural or natural looking background of rock or bark and some moss and stuff on that. Lighting will be better too when complete. Tank is 48'' long, 12'' deep, 18'' high. The moss, licorice fern, and a few plants to be added later, are alive. Substrate will be deeper and is made of fir bark and coconut fiber.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3553/gedc1238.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2856/gedc1236.jpg

[Stefan-A]

It's a nice setup. :)

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks. It'll be even better when I get the waterfall built and the background in! I'll need to add a few hides too of course. I think with this one I'll be putting a large undertank heater vertically on the left end.:cool: Oh, and maybe some patches of dead moss attached to the log.

Depending on what level of humidity I end up with, I might have to add a 120mm or larger exhaust fan but we'll see.

[Mommy2many]

I like the moss but what about buggies? Do you get those with the moss? Anytime I use natural plants, I always seem to end up with these little white bugs. Another reason to "bake/microwave" my wood.

[ConcinusMan]

I like the moss but what about buggies? Do you get those with the moss? Anytime I use natural plants, I always seem to end up with these little white bugs. Another reason to "bake/microwave" my wood.


I've never had a problem with the moss dead or alive. It's attractive and useful either way. Neither the moss nor the fern require soil so that helps. The moss just needs a rock or wood to grow on and the ferns attach their rhizome to any rock or wood that has moss growing on it, and get's it's nutrients from the air. I've never SEEN any bugs and I've been keeping it indoors and out for quite some time now.

That log won't fit into a microwave or oven that I own. It's 4 feet long. It is natural heavy hardwood from outside but has been well weathered by water, deposited on land, then bleached in the sun for years before I picked it up. (Driftwood) I never have a problem with sun bleached driftwood. As long as there is no rot to speak of, no bugs either. I sanded the surface thoroughly to remove some slight signs of past fungus growth.

Sometimes if you use soil you'll get little white bugs that look almost like fleas. They might be annoying, but they are harmless. White flies on the other hand, get out of control indoors and damage plants by sucking their juices.

The plants I plan to add later are rooted in rockwool so no soil anywhere in the enclosure. I will be watching very closely for problems though.

I've had very good luck propogating and growing those air ferns and various mosses on wood or rocks up against my house on the north facing side. (shaded all day) If anyone is interested in giving some a try, I might be willing to send you some. It really is good stuff. If the moss dies, it's still attractive and useful. No problems so far, even indoors.

[De Foezel]

the little white bugs are flora mites if u keep the plants dryer the white buggies wont apear
(had some problems with that while i was growing some greens)

[Mommy2many]

Is that what they are? Thet get on my snakes and then I have to clean everything again and give everyone a bath. As stated before, don't like buggies much:eek:

[De Foezel]

no they wont bite the reptiles just the plants.............

[ConcinusMan]

As of now the project is kind of on hold. I have cleared the tank out and put in a liner and a few box hides. It's going to have to serve as a birthing tank. Lot's of babies on the way. When all that nonsense is over with and the babies are placed in their own containers, the project will move forward.

[De Foezel]

thats good news of a different kind congrats

[infernalis]

Congrats on the expected arrivals.

[ConcinusMan]

no they wont bite the reptiles just the plants.............

Most of the little bugs you see don't even do that. They just feed on decomposing matter in the soil.

[ConcinusMan]

I went ahead and got things started since we finally have a sunny and dry weekend. My method is going to be slightly different. I don't want to take an enclosure out of use while I do this, and I don't want the fiberglass to be permanently fused to the tank. My goal is to make a removable false bottom that will hide a container with water and a submersible pump. The shape of this false bottom will allow a little water to pool before draining into the container hidden beneath it. The tube sending the water upwards will be hidden behind a "tree trunk" fitted in the corner of the tank. The tree trunk will have a piece of mopani wood fixed to it. The water will then seemingly spring from the mopani wood, trickle (free fall about 3 inches) into the fiberglass false bottom, and drain into the water container.

I moved my snakes temporarily so I could shape the wire roughly to the shape of the tank and desired shape. I then took it outside, being careful not to distort the shape, double-checked measurements, and went ahead and laid the first layer of fiberglass. It went well. Fingers crossed.

I'm going to go ahead and hold off on showing pics right now. It's probably better if I wait until the project is completed, or nearly completed, then post pics and describe what I did all at once.

[Jeff B]

That sounds really cool. I would like to make a display cage like that someday to have in the family room. Can't wait to see pics of the finished product.

[ConcinusMan]

That sounds really cool. I would like to make a display cage like that someday to have in the family room. Can't wait to see pics of the finished product.

It's not as easy to create as it looks to be, I can tell you that. There will have to be another weekend for adding a second layer of fiberglass, a day or two of hardening, another weekend to add resin and finish, more curing, grinding, cutting, sanding, etc...

But I can't stop now. I'll see it through. Just to let everyone know, I got the inspiration for building this from this thread by De Foezel: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6777&highlight=polyester

I just want to create a cover similar to his, but removable, (and hopefully one that snakes won't get under) to contain water and pump for a little waterfall. It seems this is going to be a bit complicated so I'm leaning toward fake ferns and plants that look very real but will create the same basic effect I'm looking for. After all, it doesn't matter how "cool" it looks. It must be easy to maintain and must provide proper environment for my garters, first and foremost.