Crusty Vent

[guidofatherof5]

For the last month one of my adult female radixes has had this reoccurring problem with a crusty vent. Last night when I checked on her I was shocked to see what appeared to be an abscess on her tail. Pushing on it I thought I would lose her from something like this. I felt the best way to help would be to open the area up and get some sulfadiazine on it.
To my surprise it wasn't an abscess but a retained shed problem. She had retained an entire shed and when she defecates some of the feces has gotten trapped under he old tail shed and caused an irritation(something like diaper rash).
She spent about an hour in a shed box but it didn't do any good so it was to the bathroom sink for a manual shed. After the shed was complete she went into a container with a cloth for substrate. I'll keep her in this for a few days and watch for improvement.
This photo is from last night. The white stuff isn't infection but sulfadiazine. This morning much of the redness is gone and it looks better. I'm guessing she'll make a full recovery. She is one of my rescued females from last year. She has taken to Ranch life very well and is a joy to interact with.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/cb.jpg

[gregmonsta]

Ouch, it does look inflamed. I'm sure she'll recover well though ;)

[Quibble]

Nice save, Steve! :)

[ConcinusMan]

eeeww. doesn't look all that great.

[Stefan-A]

I had that happen to my male parietalis a few years ago. Thought it was a bad shed at first, but the vent kept getting crusty no matter how hard I tried to keep it clean. Anyway, long story short, it seems that it was a sign of dehydration caused by kidney failure and was ultimately fatal.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/panicce1.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/post-shed-e11.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the heads-up.
Since I did find a retained shed and the fact it's looking much better today, I'm not concerned it's anything serious. That is good info. to know though.
I soaked her vent in a weak tea Betadine solution. That will be daily along with the sulfadiazine cream. She's acting normal in all other ways.

Was your male normal in all other ways or were there any other signs of trouble? Was he an older snake? Sorry to hear you lost him.

[Stefan-A]

Thanks for the heads-up.
Since I did find a retained shed and the fact it's looking much better today, I'm not concerned it's anything serious. That is good info. to know though.
I soaked her vent in a weak tea Betadine solution. That will be daily along with the sulfadiazine cream. She's acting normal in all other ways.

Was your male normal in all other ways or were there any other signs of trouble? Was he an older snake? Sorry to hear you lost him.
He was normal in every other way right up until about 24 hours before he died. He even ate a few days before, IIRC.

I think he was 3 or 4 years at the time, but I'd have to check my notes.
edit: he was probably born in 2004 and died in 2007, so 3 years.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry for all the questions but how long did he suffer from the crusty vent?
What was the time frame from discovery until death? Any meds. administered?
Additional question. Are those dried urates in your photo?

[Stefan-A]

Sorry for all the questions but how long did he suffer from the crusty vent?
What was the time frame from discovery until death? Any meds. administered?
Additional question. Are those dried urates in your photo?
Time frame... correction 2, maybe 6-8 weeks from identification of the problem to death. Was not on meds, was kept in sterile conditions and the vent was cleaned with betadine. Those are dried urates.

I started a thread back then.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1460

I'd have to go through my PM's and MSN logs (I do save them all) to be able to give more precise information. Right now, I'm writing this from memory.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks. The old thread answered all my questions.

I didn't know you were a Monty Python fan!
I showed my son the Spam skit and now he can't get enough of that humor.

[ConcinusMan]

I had that happen to my male parietalis a few years ago. Thought it was a bad shed at first, but the vent kept getting crusty no matter how hard I tried to keep it clean. Anyway, long story short, it seems that it was a sign of dehydration caused by kidney failure and was ultimately fatal.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/panicce1.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/post-shed-e11.jpg

Keep an eye on that female Shannon. She was in that condition upon emergence from brumation. The crust as cleared and she appears in good health though.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep an eye on that female Shannon. She was in that condition upon emergence from brumation. The crust as cleared and she appears in good health though.

I don't understand? Shannon didn't post to this thread.:confused:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I don't understand? Shannon didn't post to this thread.:confused:


Yea I was a little confused as well... her vent looks great to me! :)

[ConcinusMan]

I was referring to the female I sent to her. Her vent was in that condition when she came out of brumation. She was dehydrated then. Took several days to clear her up. Just saying I don't really know what caused it so keep an eye out for vent issues. Could have just been a dehydration issue since she was just waking up. Those photos do have one major difference. There's obvious signs of infection and/or injury to the area, unlike the snake I had.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6598&highlight=cloaca+impaction

[guidofatherof5]

She's looking much better after a couple of TLC days.
A big difference in lighting/photos. The first was inside and the second was natural sunlight.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/cb.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/vent.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Looking good. Definitely significant improvement! Thank you Dr. Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

After giving her a breakfast of pinkies, I decided to put her back with her group. Her vent was looking very good and I will still monitor it daily for another week.
I expect a full recovery.

[guidofatherof5]

Well, I'm still fighting the battle of the crusty vent. Things were looking good for awhile but then went back to bad(crusty) She's back upstairs and will get a prolonged period on paper towels and a prolonged treatment time. I don't think I was patient enough and may have jumped the gun on putting her back with her friends before.
And now for something completely different.
This morning I got her out to change her bedding and apply some ointment. I made a joke about taker her outside to do her duty since she hadn't defecated on her paper towels. I walked out front and set her in the grass. Within 30 seconds she dumped a load of Poo in the grass. Good snake, good snake.
Maybe setting her in the green grass was akin to them getting into their water dish and using it as a toilet or maybe I have the worlds first potty trained garter snake.:D

[ConcinusMan]

Knowing you and your radixes Steve, I'd say it was the latter.

[Hollis_Steed]

Sit Boo Boo, Sit! Good boy!:D

[MoJo]

My first garter was a lovely red sided girl that also had an issue with a crusty vent. At the time I posted photos on KS.com and no one really knew what it was but someone said that they had had a girl with the same thing and that she had been dehydrated and died. I knew that my snake had always had water so that wasn't the issue. My girl did turn out to have an internal abscess not too far from the vent and she ultimately passed from it. It took a while for the abscess to make itself known and a fair amount of time until she actually looked and acted ill. I think Ginger was probably my favorite snake!

It makes sense to me that this would be a sign of renal failure. Infections can cause the kidney's to fail I am just surprised at how long snakes can hang on once they are ill.


I hope your girl is not having kidney or other problems and will live a long life at the Ranch!

[guidofatherof5]

My first garter was a lovely red sided girl that also had an issue with a crusty vent. At the time I posted photos on KS.com and no one really knew what it was but someone said that they had had a girl with the same thing and that she had been dehydrated and died. I knew that my snake had always had water so that wasn't the issue. My girl did turn out to have an internal abscess not too far from the vent and she ultimately passed from it. It took a while for the abscess to make itself known and a fair amount of time until she actually looked and acted ill. I think Ginger was probably my favorite snake!

It makes sense to me that this would be a sign of renal failure. Infections can cause the kidney's to fail I am just surprised at how long snakes can hang on once they are ill.


I hope your girl is not having kidney or other problems and will live a long life at the Ranch!


Thanks for your info. I hope this isn't anything serious. I don't get that feeling from this. My Vet. thinks she may have built up some scar tissue in that area and it may be collecting feces and causing an irritation. She's up stairs with me for a solid month. Just having her in a very controlled situation has already improved the crusty area. She may always need some help in that area but she's worth the time. She was a rescued gravid radix from last year. I think she likes me. Once I get her out she calms down and sits with me while I'm in the living room. She's a very relaxed character.

[ConcinusMan]

You know, that really big ordinoides girl (2.5 feet is big for an ordinoides) keeps getting crusties. It seems like there's been some sort of scaring or... well, her cloaca looks kinda nasty. Almost like scale rot but that's not it. Every week or two, I have to give her a good soak and clear the area. No redness or anything like that, just nasty looking rough, peelie, I don't know how to describe it. All I know is that urates seem to build up there every so often. She doesn't seem sick. She's eating well and is active during the day.

[guidofatherof5]

Things have taken a slight turn for the worse for my girl. She's injured her vent even more. Now she's sporting a slightly prolapsed vent. It also had some infection . The Vet was aggressive in cleaning it out and I feel the paybacks will be coming to me. She didn't like the cleanup procedure. I tried to make a diagram showing the problem. I hope it explains the problem properly.
She's a wild caught from my yard last year. I hope she make a full recovery as she's a good radix. I'm guessing she's about 3 years old(wild years). I hope with a full recovery she'll have a few more years on the Ranch.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/prolapsed_vent.jpg

[drache]

I hope it turns out better

[Mommy2many]

me too!

[Spankenstyne]

Yeah absolutely pulling for you here. Sounds like she's in great hands not only with you on the ranch but with the vet's help as well.

Have you bumped up her hot spot temps a bit as well to help boost her immune system while she's recovering? Seems simple but something folks sometimes don't think about.
If there's a chance of dehydration I'd skip a few meals until you're satisfied she's well hydrated.

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, the heats up a bit. Thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Things are not healing the way I think they should be. I've got an appointment setup for Thurs.
I told my Vet. I wanted to stay aggressive on this so it looks like she may get a couple of stitches to help with the healing process.
She's still eating and behaving normally.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry for the late report.
The Vet. thinks things are progressing nicely and wants to hold off on the stitches.
He says the scar tissue is building and it will just take time.
So for now, silver sulfadiazine will continue.

[ConcinusMan]

Good to hear. I wonder if I might borrow your thread for a moment. I have a very tiny iowa albino I got recently that wasn't eating well and got quite visibly underweight. The good news is, he's eating for me just fine. Feeding him a couple of very small bites twice a day to try and get him back in shape.

The thing that bothers me is that I'm having to clean poop off of his vent every morning. A little bit gets stuck there and kinda lifts his vent scale a little bit. I wonder what could be causing this? He's drinking water, his food is served nice and wet, and he even likes to swim in his dish (gatorade cap) so it's a little hard for me to understand why he has a crusty vent. I guess nobody taught this boy how to wipe?

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds to me like his digestive system isn't back to normal yet.
Maybe some triple antibiotic ointment would help lube the vent.
Is is a light colored crust? Probably urates. I have a few young ones do the same thing.
Probably a developmental thing.
Keeping it clean and lubed is a good tactic.
A Vet. visit or at least phone call might be in order if it doesn't clear up.
I had a young one with the same problem and it lasted 6 months. She's fine now and doing great.

[ConcinusMan]

No, it's not urates. It's dark. He's pooping fine though. His little vent does sometimes look a little red around the edges. I'll try the ointment and see how it goes. Maybe he'll grow out of it.

Thanks

[Atlas511]

any new pics? after healing?

[guidofatherof5]

The fight is still on. Still building scar tissue. She's in a paper towel substrate enclosure. Trying to keep things very clean. She's eating, pooping and acting normal. Her vent looks terrible. Swollen and red. My Vet. said we need to keep treating it and waiting.
CB is a great snake and I don't mind the extra work on her behalf.

Thanks for checking up on her.;)

[Atlas511]

i would love to see pics graphic or not. I am slowly learning each day with you guys.

[guidofatherof5]

I'll try to post one in the next couple of days.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry for not posting a photo. I took her in to the Vet. this morning and left her. The Vet. will be doing laser surgery on her vent later in the day.

I just received a call from the Vet's office. CB made it through the procedure and I will be picking her up within the hour.
I'll try to get a photo later tonight.

[Mommy2many]

Hope she did well.

[ConcinusMan]

Nobody even cares about my crusty little guy:(

No, I'm only kidding. I did use antibiotic ointment for about a week, like Steve suggested. Seemed to help. Now, no more ointment, no more crusties.:D

[Mommy2many]

You have a happy ending as well. Nice to hear!

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, pingping has a happy END. LoL.

[guidofatherof5]

I've tried to start this post about 6 times and can't seem to get it right.
I'm very concerned for CB. Surgery went well but I'm thinking I should have let nature run its course or had her put down.
Basically she's had the opening of her cloaca removed and set back in place one scute back. Her rectum was sew back in place and we are hoping she will heal.
I have worked with this girl for the last 6 months and have grown very fond of her. I feel now I have put her in a worse position than if I would have just let her problem run its course. Which would have eventually cost her her life.
I feel at this point I've done more harm than good. I've never second guessed my decisions before but on this one I am.
Keeping this thing clean and viable is going to be next to impossible.
If I see any signs that this thing is going south I will put her down. I feel terrible.

[Snakers]

I've tried to start this post about 6 times and can't seem to get it right.
I'm very concerned for CB. Surgery went well but I'm thinking I should have let nature run its course or had her put down.
Basically she's had the opening of her cloaca removed and set back in place one scute back. Her rectum was sew back in place and we are hoping she will heal.
I have worked with this girl for the last 6 months and have grown very fond of her. I feel now I have put her in a worse position than if I would have just let her problem run its course. Which would have eventually cost her her life.
I feel at this point I've done more harm than good. I've never second guessed my decisions before but on this one I am.
Keeping this thing clean and viable is going to be next to impossible.
If I see any signs that this thing is going south I will put her down. I feel terrible.Sometimes you have to tell your self you did the right thing and the best thing, Its like when I had to put my dog down last month, If I didn't put her down would she be alive today?? I only hope and pray I did the best thing, Good Luck with her and just think if this snake never appeared in your life.................

[kibakiba]

I've tried to start this post about 6 times and can't seem to get it right.
I'm very concerned for CB. Surgery went well but I'm thinking I should have let nature run its course or had her put down.
Basically she's had the opening of her cloaca removed and set back in place one scute back. Her rectum was sew back in place and we are hoping she will heal.
I have worked with this girl for the last 6 months and have grown very fond of her. I feel now I have put her in a worse position than if I would have just let her problem run its course. Which would have eventually cost her her life.
I feel at this point I've done more harm than good. I've never second guessed my decisions before but on this one I am.
Keeping this thing clean and viable is going to be next to impossible.
If I see any signs that this thing is going south I will put her down. I feel terrible.


Steve, you're a great person. Don't feel bad. You're doing what you can to keep her alive. If I were the snake I'd be happy to be in the hands of someone so caring and loving. I'm sure she appreciates your help. I hope everything goes smoothly with her.

[gregmonsta]

We can't help making the wrong decisions sometimes mate. Thinking about 'what ifs' isn't going to do any good. You know you're only doing the best you can. Fingers crossed things pick up.

[guidofatherof5]

CB went back to the Vet. this morning. She herniated some tissue around her new cloaca.
My Vet. didn't think it was a big deal and was very please at the look of her new vent.
She'll have some surgery this afternoon and probably return home early this evening.

[Mommy2many]

Hoping for the best!

[infernalis]

Hoping for the best!


Ditto from me Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

Got a call late that CB was out of surgery. I'll pick her up in the morning.
Looking forward to seeing her and getting her home.

[Snakers]

good luck

[guidofatherof5]

Great news. CB ate a night crawler today. She was actively looking for food when I checked in on her.
Her vent area is looking better and seems to be drying out some. It doesn't have that open wound look to it. I continue to apply the silver sulfadiazine and change her paper towels daily. The big test will be if her new cloaca will function properly.
That first poop is going to be an important one to her future.
She's a great snake and I hope to have a few more years with her around.

[guidofatherof5]

Make that 3 night crawlers.
She seems to more like her old self but I of course am still very worried about her.

[Tyrel26]

so far so good! I hope she poops on you very soon lol

[guidofatherof5]

so far so good! I hope she poops on you very soon lol

Thanks. What a kind thing to say, I guess.:D
I know what you're saying and I wouldn't care as long as she continues to improve.

[Tyrel26]

Well to me it just seems like their biggest poops are reserved for when you hold them lol
Regardless I hope her recovery is a speedy one!

[Snakers]

sounds like she made out fine

[guidofatherof5]

Well, she passed a little fecal matter. Good in itself.
I just want to see regular pooping and no infections.

[guidofatherof5]

Here is the growth that was removed from CB's cloaca(vent).
CB is still healing from the surgery. I've been able to keep any noticeable infection out of it. I am a bit concerned as I thing there is another growth starting. I will not subject her to more surgery.
Prayers for CB would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/crusty.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Holey crud! That's rough.

[mustang]

LOOK ANOTHER LINK TO SOMETHING SIMILAR!!!!http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/7454-hard-tail.html

[kibakiba]

I hope CB does well, Steve! She'll be in my thoughts. Keep us updated, please!

[ConcinusMan]

LOOK ANOTHER LINK TO SOMETHING SIMILAR!!!!http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/7454-hard-tail.html

I don't think so. The hard tail is likely failure to shed the skin on the tail. Eventually it dies and becomes hard, then falls off.

This thread was a case of a growth inside the cloaca.

[mustang]

aww well i tried and i learned

[guidofatherof5]

CB lost her fight this morning. I found her dead.
I did get to spend some time with her yesterday. Helped her get a drink.
She had a look I've seen many times in elderly snakes. It's hard to explain but I could see something in her face over the last few days that told me the end was near.
I feel fortunate that the last year of her life was spent on the Ranch. I knew she was a old snake when I found her in the backyard and I felt I could help her with her vent infection. It appears this may have been more than an infection.
In hindsight I wish I would have spared her the surgery she received and just let nature run its course.
In any event it was a pleasure caring for her. She sat with me through many a movie and was so pleasant to have out. These aged snakes are special. They trust very quickly and seem to enjoy the attention they get.
R.I.P. old girl.

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry to hear it Steve. You were valiant in your efforts and did everything possible. I commend you for that.

[infernalis]

Slither on CB..... R.I.P.

[Selkielass]

Sorry for your loss. My condolences.

[MoJo]

So sorry for your loss.

[gregmonsta]

At least you tried mate.