my own build.

[De Foezel]

i have build my own undergrond (for under substrate)
i used fiberglass with a safe resin
i dont know what the resin is called in english but its used on boats for building and repairs(is not bad for enviroment)
here are some pictures.

DAY1
first i cleaned my enclosement REALY WELL
then went to work
i used some chicken ironmesh to make the rough shape of the landscape
then i stuck the fiberglass and resin on

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_067.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_068.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_066.jpg

DAY 2
sand the fiberglass lightly and aply another layer of resin(no fiberglass)
before the resin dreid i drop sand on it so it sticks to it

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_079.jpg
greets Foezel

[De Foezel]

DAY 3
Giving the rest of the enclosure a coating of resin and sand so itl look like 1 "sandy rockwall"

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_077.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_076.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_075.jpg

[De Foezel]

DAY 4
finishing up the enclosure with some fake flora
and white window sticky stuff

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_084.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_083.jpg

and i installed some more flora and atached 1 hiding cave to the roof of the enclosement

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_089.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_090.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww24/Krogan_photo/IMAGE_091.jpg
now i just wait for the fiberglass to stop emitting gasses and then ill put in some cocopeat and my enclosure is ready
greets foezel

[ConcinusMan]

That post couldn't have come at a better time. I have a silent pump for a trickle waterfall in a 55gallon long. I have tubing, air ferns, live moss, hydroballs, netting, etc. Now to fashion a housing/water isolation piece to go with it. This method looks perfect for my project!^^^

[De Foezel]

its in my opinion the best option for building anything in an enclosement

BEWARE it has to dry out for 2 or 3 weeks(keeps gasing for a long time)
so do not put anything u make out of this stuff directly in the enclosement(wait for the object to dry out completely).

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice looking enclosure.
Thanks for posting.

[infernalis]

Superb work. That is a brilliant looking setup.

[Barak666]

Very nice enclosure !!!


its in my opinion the best option for building anything in an enclosement

BEWARE it has to dry out for 2 or 3 weeks(keeps gasing for a long time)
so do not put anything u make out of this stuff directly in the enclosement(wait for the object to dry out completely).

+1 I used this method for my dragon terrarium and for some aquariums background. Last year, I had a formation with an artist who work with resins and fiberglass. If you used fiberglass mesh, the best resin would be the polyester resin, so it dissolve the glue used to hold the mesh fiber together so it is easiest to build curve shape model (with epoxy resin, it tend to fold).

The few weeks of waiting is important as you mention, but to be sure there is no fume emits by the resin after this time, you can wash your work with hot water (±60°C)

Mathieu

[Spankenstyne]

Fantastic looking enclosure!

[BUSHSNAKE]

looks great!

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, this looks great for certain custom enclosures. And yes, I am aware of the material/chemical dangers. This is something that is best cured for 6-12 months, and well ventilated during that time. After complete cure, the material poses no acute risk to inhabitants. It's brilliant.

[De Foezel]

LISTEN TO ME THIS POLYESTHER IS MADE FOR USE ON BOATS AND ONLY HAS TO DRY OUT FOR 2 TO 3 WEEKS
this has to do with the fact that in the netherlands boats have to be enviroment friendly build (so the water isnt messed up)

[gregmonsta]

Very nice indeed.

[drache]

really nice

[Barak666]

But it is a bit different between a boat and an enclosure, the boat is use is open air and huge amount of water, compare to an enclosure where your animal will be confine et constantly expose to ester fumes if the resin his not well polymerized and neutral. So better wait longer that not enough.

I don't said it about your project, but mostly to the other who would like to try it after viewing your enclosure.

[ConcinusMan]

He has made it clear and I will say it once more. The material is safe for using to build enclosures but it must be allowed to cure. At least 6months would pass before I would place live creatures in there but longer would be better perhaps. Once all gas releases, residues, and vapor leaching is done, it is quite safe and easy to make it very clean with regular maintenance.

[De Foezel]

now u made me nervous about it............
I AM ALSO USING HEAT TO CURE IT FASTER.
ill just use a fish or live mouse for chekking if the enclosure is safe
if they die it isnt safe for the snake.

[ConcinusMan]

Live mice will chew into the material. Snakes do not. Fish could die for any reason. Heat does not "cure", time does. Heat only hastens the hardening.

Best to wait about 6 mos after completion. IF you have access to a "sniffer" device used to monitor gases in a confined space work area, then close it up completely for a day after the curing is complete and use that device. A thorough sniffer device will reveal any dangerous components in the air. Don't forget about the underside air pocket. Unless it's vented during the cure period, gasses could be trapped and released later.

IMHO, this material is no more dangerous than common garbage. While garbage is "curing" dangerous gases are emitted. After that is complete, it's as inert as rock or sand. Astroturf, commonly used as a reptile liner is made of plastics which emit dangerous gases when it is first molded. Harmless once it's cured and washed throroughly. Afterall, it's no more dangerous, once cured, than a polyester shirt. Essentially, that's what it is. I would have no problem with keeping my snakes on polyester. I just wouldn't want them there breathing the fumes when the polyester is being manufactured.

[De Foezel]

i will contain the mouse(in a glass jar with holes in the top)
if it dies im 1 euro down.
(not ethicly correct , but its the cheapest way)
if it doesnt die within 48 hours i supose im safe.......
sorry to al of you mouse loving peoples..

[ConcinusMan]

i will contain the mouse(in a glass jar with holes in
if it doesnt die within 48 hours i supose im safe.......


That would not necessarily be a correct assumption. Oftentimes the death can take months of slow organ damage. Don't worry, that stuff is safe. Just cure it for a long time.

Looks like a minimum amount of materials would cost me about $65 but that would be enough to do many enclosures. About 10 perhaps.

[De Foezel]

if i where you i wouldnt buy it from the internet..
i would go to your local boat-repairshop or boat building company(u can usualy buy 1 or 2 liters with some glassfiber for (in my case) 20 euros.

[ConcinusMan]

We don't really have anything like that. I'd have to go to south into Portland. They are the one's with all the private marinas. We used to have a good sized marina on Vancouver Lake but a tornado destroyed it a few years back. The Vancouver side of the Columbia River is all industry and condos:cool:

[De Foezel]

oh ok...
i assumed u had as much water around as i do
in the netherlands ur never more then an hour away from a large waterbody
not that u would call it a large waterbody(because our complete country is smaller then most of your states)

[ConcinusMan]

I live less than 1/10th of a kilometer from a very large river, about 1/4 mile wide.(The Columbia River, sometimes referred to as the "Mississippi of the west") Vancouver lake is also a very large lake and used to be part of the river about 13,000 years ago. It's now fed by small streams and creeks. Lot's of streams and creeks flowing across the landscape flowing into both bodies of water.

On the contrary to what you said, I am never more than 5-20 minutes away from a large body of water. That's not the point. The point is, there are not any marinas on any of them unless I leave the state. Bottom line is, it's not very convenient at all to find a "boat repair" business near me that has that stuff on the shelf. It would be a major pain in the... And would probably cost more in gasoline than it's worth in savings. Still, there are other options. Many "home improvement" supply stores immediately nearby might carry such products. They just wouldn't be marketed as "boat repair" supplies.:D

For example, coconut fiber substrate for reptile enclosures. If sold as such, the price is very high. If sold as a garden supply product at a garden nursery, the price is much lower!

[De Foezel]

ok but then u would have to wait a very long time for it to stop gassing
(i dont think the resin is different but i think the hardner is)
thats why u have to wait a very long time(at least 4 months i would think)

[ConcinusMan]

Humidity, temperature, oxygen level, air circulation...

All will have an influence on the curing time. I would say wait MONTHS from completion before introducing animals. Just to be cautious.

The idea and materials are great. I think that if I was to produce these enclosures for my own snakes, or to sell, I would wait months. Perhaps build them during the summer and wait until the following spring to call them "cured" and safe for use.

I still plan to build some structures using this method. Perhaps background walls with shelves and nooks for plants, perhaps water features. It's a great idea.

However, my current project requires me to have snakes moved in by June or July. I will be using natural or already cured materials this time around.

I still want to try building stuff for reptiles from this idea. I just won't be using them this season.

[redspot]

I have a feeling De Foezel is working with a low VOC epoxy over in the Netherlands as thats all they've sold for the last 5 years+ over there. Most low VOC epoxy systems are fully done out-gassing in 72 hours. In the US we are well on the way to establishing low VOC products.

The stuff I would worry about outgassing FOREVER are any Urethane sealants, Stains etc... Most epoxy's fully cure pretty fast.

Nate

[ConcinusMan]

He's using fiberglass mesh and polyester resin. Used for environmentally safe boat repair.

[De Foezel]

concinnusman is correct I AM USING POLYESTHER FOR BOAT-REPAIR AND BUILDING
the reason for this is......
polyesther is easyer to mould to your own views
(i never used epoxy so dont know how it works but have been told epoxy is alot thicker fluid compared to polyester)
the cost of polyesther is lower then epoxy
1.5 kg epoxy = 24 euro(just epoxy)
3kg polyesther + 1 meter of fiberglass = 32 euros

[ConcinusMan]

I am glad you posted this info and pics of the results. I know know that it would be too expensive to use natural cork bark for the entire back. Also, the main thing is that I want to make a unit that I can remove easily, which will hold a submersible pump and water for a small multi-teired waterfall. Cannot buy what I have in mind. I'll have to build it. Coming soon. I''ll be posting results here: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6793

(I have to say, I've seen and smoked lots of other wonderful things coming out of Amsterdam and surrounding areas, including the best of the best plant genetics grown here in Washington State USA and Vancouver, B.C. Wouldn't mind doing one of those projects if it wasn't risking years in prison. But this polyester project, I can do. So for now, I'll be growing moss and garter snakes:D)The rest of the "free" world is grateful to your country's botonists but they are so good at it, we forgot to thank them. LoL. :cool:

To have health coverage when you're sick, and to be self-supplying, taking the money out of the hands of terrorists and criminal gangs... without fear of encarceration. Ahh... to truly be free.

[De Foezel]

the gass smell inside the enclosure has stopped so i think ill wait another week for good measure (curing time told to me by the seller was 1 to 2 weeks depends on amount of hardner used)
i also used an old PC COOLER for ventilation.
at night ventilation is off and the enclosure is closed,
so i can smell the air in the enclosure in the morning to make sure no gasses build up
also before the snake goes in ill lett the enclosure sit closed for 48 hours and then chek 1 final time if it smells like gasses

ok so u like the greens too?
then u should come to the netherlands once in your life(u will think; what crap have i been smoking all this time)
thc levels (active substance in reefer) in holland have doubled in the past 15 years
the normal thc lvl outside of the netherlands is 5%to 7%
in the netherlands thats at least doubled to 10% to 15%
of course there always is cheap weed too but that will be more crappy
u can also grow ur own weed.
but...... up to 5 plants is accepted by authorities if u have a higher nr of plants and they are discoverd by someone else ,they will be destroyed(all of them)
its just accepted to grow weed(5 plants or less not illegal but also not legal, more then 5 plants is illegal)

[ConcinusMan]

Anyone else notice post #3 ? I don't think anyone caught on to that "white widow" comment. Anyway, Thanks De Foezel for the idea. I have begun my own project based on your idea. Got the wire shape and the first layer of fiberglass is now hardening overnight. However, I think it's going to take another layer of fiberglass cloth and resin, let it cure, then another layer or two of resin for my project. I like lot's of resin.;) And since I'm doing this on my weekend off from work, it might take just a little more white widow and an ice cold hefeweizen to make it perfect.:p Or, the latter two ingredients might just mess it up.:p We'll see.:cool: