What to do!

[guidofatherof5]

As you all probably know my best buddy Krickleback passed away a few days ago. I put him in the freezer for safe keeping and his eventual burial.
I'm now having second thoughts about burying him. I've never seen a snake with such a bad case of scoliosis and especially one as big as he was. I'm very curious to see what his spine looks like and feel he can still do some good even though he's dead.
I think being able to display his skeleton would be a great educational/interesting item.
I love him but feel putting him in the ground ends his contribution.
Now, how do I end up with only his skeleton?

[jitami]

As you all probably know my best buddy Krickleback passed away a few days ago. I put him in the freezer for safe keeping and his eventual burial.
I'm now having second thoughts about burying him. I've never seen a snake with such a bad case of scoliosis and especially one as big as he was. I'm very curious to see what his spine looks like and feel he can still do some good even though he's dead.
I think being able to display his skeleton would be a great educational/interesting item.
I love him but feel putting him in the ground ends his contribution.
Now, how do I end up with only his skeleton?

Fine mesh container outside somewhere where you and the kids won't have to see it? :o :(:o There have to be more sterile ways, tho?

[Barak666]

Well I already do something like that with a blue lobster that die few years ago (I work as aquarist). I wanted to keep the shell, so I found a nice ants hive and put the lobster directly on it, then I put an empty reversed bucket on it with a rock on top of the bucket to prevent stealing from wild animal. Let's it for some weeks waiting for them to eat all the flesh. I assume it would work on a garter giving the time. The next step will be to mount that skeleton, nice puzzle with all these same looking bones ;)

You might boil it to, but you will start with a pile of bones, with the ants you could put the garter on a perforate plate so if the ants don't move the bone to much, you will be able to remove it while keeping the global pattern of bones.

Good luck

Mathieu

[infernalis]

Are garter snake skeletons "soft" like fish skeletons??

It may be quite difficult Steve, Not really sure.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Are garter snake skeletons "soft" like fish skeletons??

It may be quite difficult Steve, Not really sure.
nope, they are bone, not cartilage. I have a complete red sided garter skeleton I found out in Kansas...under a rock... that would be my suggestion is put the body under a board on some bare soil and mother nature take care of it...insects wil eat the flesh and hopefully will leave the tendons to dry and hold it together...

here's photos....its now mounted in a nice black shadow box

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/medium/skeleton_2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/medium/skeleton_1.jpg

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

What I would do, is let him sit outside for a day in the heat so that flies will lay their eggs on the carcass. I think the maggots would clean him up pretty well.... but I believe the best thing you could use would be carrion beetles, which taxidermists and people who put together dead skeletons use to clean carcasses. I used to be friends with a guy who would collect dead reptiles and put together their skeleton. He said he kept a bucket of carrion beetles always waiting and then put a dead carcass in there. He always told me that they did a fantastic job of cleaning something right to the bone.

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I tried to research different methods of cleaning a snake skeleton a year or so ago. I wanted a method that would stop the teeth from falling out.


Step one in all cases is to skin the snake first.

Boiling won't work for anything that small, you're likely to end up with a pile of vertebrae you won't be able to reassemble.

Carrion beetles and flies might work. The problem is that if you leave the snake out in the heat, it'll probably end up a completely mummified. I've dried pike heads that way as a kid. If you can set up suitable conditions, it might be worth a try. If you just leave it outside, some mammalian or avian scavenger might take the whole damn thing.

I've used ants for animals up to the size of a mink. The most important thing using this method, is to prevent the bones from getting lost. I've used mesh, but it might be hard to find a mesh size that keeps the bones in, but lets the ants pass through.

There's supposed to be some detergent that works using some sort of enzymes. It's supposed to be able to dissolve the fat and flesh. Again, you might end up with a pile of bones.

Then there's maceration, but that will definitely leave you with a pile of bones.




I see I'm repeating some of the same things other people have been saying, but that doesn't matter.


edit:
http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/features/snakes/preparing/index.asp

[Stefan-A]

nope, they are bone, not cartilage.
The bones of bony fish (Osteichtyes) are bone. :p

Snake bones do seem pretty flexible.

[ssssnakeluvr]

The bones of bony fish (Osteichtyes) are bone. :p

Snake bones do seem pretty flexible.
ok, got me on that one.... :rolleyes:

[Snakers]

i think w/e choice you make will be right , sorry to hear about krinkler you gave him the best life a snake like that could ask for

[bkhuff1s]

I think the smithsonian (destroyed that word...) uses a type of beetle that only leaves the bones for their displays...

[guidofatherof5]

I think the smithsonian (destroyed that word...) uses a type of beetle that only leaves the bones for their displays...

I think I will get an email off to them and ask from some advice on my project.
I also thought about contacting a few local colleges to see if they can be of help. Maybe they can take on the project for me. That would be great.

[MasSalvaje]

Steve check out this link: http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30045&hilit=skulls
I will be seeing Bryan in May for a Kingsnake survey, you could PM him on that site and see what your possibilities are.

-Thomas

[Tyrel26]

easiest way to do this is to be friends with a conservation officer or someone from a college/university. I studied to be a CO and we use dermestid beetles to clean all types of bones. They are kept in large tanks and they do a great job. Also a lot of museums keep a colony of these critters on hand to help with displays. Either way you could contact some of these people and they may be willing to do it for you or give you enough beetles to start your own colony.
Another thing you could try to to put the snake in a pail (skinned is better, as someone already said) and put a mesh cover on the pail to allow insects to get in. Carrion beetles are airborn and will usually find the body fairly quickly, keep the carcass moist and have a hide for the bugs but insure there are holes in the bottom to allow water to drain off, dont wanna drown your helpers lol.
There are also many water insects that will serve your purpose, i have placed things in a mesh bag before and lowered them into water (fresh or salt) and in very few days the bones are polished. All 3 of these ways are good but when dealing with tiny bones, such as those from a snake, they may also be on the menu for many of these creatures

These methods arnt pretty to watch and will create quite a smell.


As someone already said boiling for a short period of time would be a good option also (but theres the "Pile O' Bones" issue) Placed the skinned snake into a pot of water, then add a little bleach and some salt. CAREFUL, not to much bleach and do not boil for too long or you will destroy the bones, just "cook" until the meat starts to fall away from the bones. Letting the body stay in the water once removed from heat is ok and it will help loosen the bones from the flesh. Then once the water is cool simply strain the remains through a strainer or a cloth. The bones will not likely be white at first but they will after a few days of drying. You may want to remove the head and tie a small piece of cloth around it before boiling if you with to save the teeth.

The last option is a little more...hands on, but it may be your best option if you with to get the best specimen possible. I do some taxidermy work in my free time so I have tried various methods of preservation. Having that said if you do decide to skin the snake, the skin may be used for a lifelike mount (if skinned properly)...but thats your call of course.

Whatever you decide, once you have the bones you should coat them with something (clear varnish or even nail polish) to prevent mites and dermestid beetles (there is a type commonly found in homes, black with a light brown stripe in the middle) from eating them.

Sorry this post is a little long and if its a little late. I would like to hear how this turns out and what methods you choose if it isn't too much trouble.


Goodluck,
Tyrel

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks to everyone who replied.
I've decided to go in a different direction with Krinckleback.

I'm going to have him freeze dried.
8.95 an inch plus the shipping cost. The company is out of Missouri.
http://www.pet-animalpreservation.com/

[ConcinusMan]

This is a great idea you have, to preserve him, or at least his skeleton for science.

I would be contacting university science depts and asking someone what the best method is for preservation, with his skeleton being priority that is. I don't think I like the freeze dry idea. All you'll get is an unrecognizable piece of shriveled up snake jerky. Bare skeleton sounds much better.

[Stefan-A]

That is an interesting solution.

[guidofatherof5]

This is a great idea you have, to preserve him, or at least his skeleton for science.

I would be contacting university science depts and asking someone what the best method is for preservation, with his skeleton being priority that is. I don't think I like the freeze dry idea. All you'll get is an unrecognizable piece of shriveled up snake jerky. Bare skeleton sounds much better.

Not sure if you looked at the link I posted but on page 5 of their photos is an iguana they did.
If that's the quality I'll be receiving, I'll be happy.

[guidofatherof5]

That is an interesting solution.

It doesn't offer an inside look at the skeleton but still give a good representation of the damage done by the disease.
With other processes I worry about ending up with a pile of bones in the end.

[Tyrel26]

well i hope this works out for you, but i have to say that site is the creepiest thing ive ever seen haha i do some taxidermy but those cats and dogs just freak me out...lol

also this is a video you may find interesting, i hope i link this right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Mt2E1M6dU

[MasSalvaje]

Thanks to everyone who replied.
I've decided to go in a different direction with Krinckleback.

I'm going to have him freeze dried.
8.95 an inch plus the shipping cost. The company is out of Missouri.
http://www.pet-animalpreservation.com/

Very good idea Steve!

As a side note, I completely understand having it done with a reptile or bird but I do not get the cats and dogs. That is a little wierd to me, but then again I have never really been a cot or dog guy.

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

I've never liked cots either:D Sorry, I just had to.:)

[MasSalvaje]

I've never liked cots either:D Sorry, I just had to.:)

:o:o:o:o

Too me those two words are interchangeable, I think it stems from my dislike of both items!

-Thomas

[guidofatherof5]

:o:o:o:o

Too me those two words are interchangeable, I think it stems from my dislike of both items!

-Thomas

I must admit, I'll take a cot over a cat everytime.:D

[gregmonsta]

Definately an interesting alternative ;)

[Stefan-A]

Anything new on this front?

[guidofatherof5]

Nothing new other than I'm waiting to have the money before I send him out. They said he would keep for about a year in the freezer.
Here's a link to the company I've chosen:AEWS Pet Freeze dry Preservation, Pet Burial, or Cremation (http://www.pet-animalpreservation.com/)

[mustang]

ooo bleach it!!! get off as much meat as possable and then you boil it for a while in this wierd solution (ill ask my dad, hunters do this for skull, european mounts, ect.)

[Mommy2many]

In a controlled (or somewhat controlled) environment, I think Shannon's idea would work best. They have something like that (believe it or not) for humans in Tennessee called "The body farm". They will place bodies outside in different scenarios to recreate a death scene or homocide and let the insects and/or nature do the work. They try to get the body to the same stage of decomposition. Insects are a very important part of the process. Just a thought. But would take time.

[guidofatherof5]

I want to keep him as life like as possible. This process seems to offer that. Looking at some of the done work, the animals look alive.
I think I want to remember my boy as close to alive as I can.
Him being gone is still difficult at times. Him and Scar were very special boys. I have no other males like them. I'm sure others will come along but these two will be thought of daily.

[Mommy2many]

Understood. The other option was to have skeletal remains.

[Stefan-A]

Any other solution will leave you with a tiny bag full of ribs and vertebrae.