Breeding Q's

[bkhuff1s]

Sorry to be such a newbie to this...

I was wondering the general run down now I should be expecting... Length of time/ how often to feed (the female)/ and when to remove the female from the cohabit enclosure...:rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

You of course can remove the female anytime after mating. You can also leave her there to either breed again if the first didn't take or remove her closer to delivery time. As far as knowing when that will happen can be like guessing the lottery numbers(right Greg:D) I've read and heard 90-120 days. I know a number of members have had deliveries in less than 90 days. Many times the female will go off food just before she delivers. I had one last year who was eating while she was delivering.
I hope some of this helps.

[infernalis]

That explains everything Steve, thanks for the clarityhttp://laserpointerforums.com/images/smilies/crackup.gif

[ConcinusMan]

LoL ^^^

That's honest and direct. We don't friggen know!

No need to apologize for being a "newbie" We all were newbies at some point in time. Granted, for me it was 1980 for my first litter and I didn't have a clue and nobody to turn to. You have us. Keep asking questions. You'll be an expert in no time.

No, but seriously, it really depends on a lot of factors. I would go ahead and leave the female with the male for about a month and if it appears that the male has lost interest in her and mating is complete, or you can leave her there until she starts looking bloated (60 days or so) and is obviously gravid. In my experience with T. sirtalis (concinnus) birth has never happened before 90 days but it has not happened later than 100 days. That is keeping her at 85-90 degree daytime basking area, 70-75 degrees on the cool area. For night time (about 10 hours) a drop down to 60-70 all over or a drop as low as possible down to minimum 60 degrees. with those conditions birth took place at 90-100 days. Sometimes labor began 2 days before actual birth. Birth took about 3 hours for 20-50 offspring once the first few came out. Smaller, easy to digest meals but more often is a good idea if she's "showing". If she stops eating don't be alarmed.

With T. ordinoides I have seen birth around 60 days from a spring(march) mating.(5-15 offspring) For a fall mating, I've seen matings happen in late september, snake brumates from late Oct early march, come out and give birth in march. (2-8 offspring)

With your snake and your provided habitat/conditions there's no telling when it will happen. good idea to seperate the mother and put her in simple enclosure shallow water dish only, no fancy substrate, with plenty of room to ensure that offspring wont stick to anything. No bottom heat, just ambient or overhead heat around 80-85 daytime temps during the big event and a cooler place to get away from the heat if they choose. Keep a close eye on her when the day approaches and keep the humidity high. Dont want sticky young sticking to dry stuff in the tank. Think moist air, moist but not wet surfaces.

If that's not confusing enough for you, consult steve. I'm sure he can fix that. ;)

Just razzin' you. We love you and your snakes steve.

[gregmonsta]

As far as knowing when that will happen can be like guessing the lottery numbers(right Greg:D) I've read and heard 90-120 days. I know a number of members have had deliveries in less than 90 days.

:rolleyes: Damn right Steve .... I'm on day 96 and still only have a fat snake to look at. Thing is that they know best.
You can definately expect them to go off food (but then again there have been exceptions).

[bkhuff1s]

So I've got basically a three month wait... that's going to kill me... So do you guys feed the females like normal or whenever they are willing to take a meal?

[guidofatherof5]

So I've got basically a three month wait... that's going to kill me... So do you guys feed the females like normal or whenever they are willing to take a meal?

I bump feeding up a little(snacks) since she's eating for 10,20,30 more mouths. Most of my females that are prego eat like even bigger pigs than normal.

[bkhuff1s]

Thanks for all the info guys I appreciate it :)

[ConcinusMan]

Raw egg whites mixed with night crawlers, small meals often is good for them. Sometimes it helps to partially cook the whites so they can get ahold of them. Don't overdo it on the heat either!

[bkhuff1s]

Egg whites and night crawlers? Do you just roll them around in the egg whites? And slightly cooking them? You'll have to tell me more about this process.

I was thinking of buying a few live fish (and mixing it with something (not sure yet what)) that's how I had to get mine started after I got them.. It seemed to rile them up enough to get them to realize they were hungry. :)

[ConcinusMan]

Egg whites and night crawlers? Do you just roll them around in the egg whites? And slightly cooking them? You'll have to tell me more about this process.

I was thinking of buying a few live fish (and mixing it with something (not sure yet what)) that's how I had to get mine started after I got them.. It seemed to rile them up enough to get them to realize they were hungry. :)


You can find more info here: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6383&highlight=whites&page=4

If were feeding egg whites to concinnus or other fish eater, I would use fish instead night crawlers for mixing with the eggs.

[bkhuff1s]

Did you use a microwave or oven to sap the eggs? How long did you use either or?

[ConcinusMan]

I would put the whites in a glass microwave safe bowl for just a few seconds at a time, until you see it beginning to cloud, scrambling in between, then a few more seconds, etc. you just want them to sort of clump up a bit without being totally cooked. This night-crawler/eggs mixture is good to give the female during after mating as well as newborns since it contains about 40 different water-soluble proteins that are easy to process (digest), can help the female to quickly replace what she has sacrificed to egg production.

I've never made it a policy to feed eggs as a routine though since they do contain a substantial amount of sodium and are not a garter snake's natural food. Earthworms/night crawlers and fish have higher protein percentage without all the sodium but fewer types of proteins. Egg whites with the worms or fish fillet pieces are a suggested way to help with conserving your worm supply or for providing fatty acids/proteins not found in fish fillet pieces, but not a good permanent replacement for whole fish or worms.

Yolks are generally considered too high in fat and cholesterol for garters.

Basically you want the whites to clump up enough that the snakes can grab and swallow them. cook them as little as possible, on the lowest heat setting, to achieve that clumping since that clumping is the result of the proteins denaturing (losing solubility).

You can also just coat their normal food in egg white slime so you don't lose protein solubility but they will get more of it if you cook it slightly. Too much raw egg white on their food and you could impair breathing during feeding (bubbles out the nose, etc.) and possibly induce an unwanted immune reaction or respiratory infection.

Bottom line however, is that if you have small fish and worms in good supply, the egg whites can be skipped. Fish and worms are mostly water but have plenty of protein and nutrition and are easily digested making small meals of fish and worms, often, is a good policy for gravid garters. Fat stored in whole or live fish (silversides have a considerable fat glob stored in them) has a lot of the same fatty acids (good fat) and good protein found in eggs solid fish meat pieces have much less so whole fish are better.

[bkhuff1s]

I will have to try the night crawlers again then. When I got them almost two years ago they wouldn't touch them, but maybe if I mix them in with the fish mixture it will be different this time around. Thanks for all the help :)

[ConcinusMan]

If they love fish and go into a frenzy even if they've only eaten live fish, they will swallow ANYTHING that smells like fish. Bottom line is you don't really have to feed your snakes any differently while they are gravid but it's a good idea to NOT give them large meals beyond 60 days from mating. But it is a good idea to feed them more often and feed them foods that they like but are easy to digest and high in water content.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks feed her a pinky or two and smother it with fish smell if she likes fish. Best to get those good pinkies in her before she starts to swell. Pinky mice are the best food ever for carnivorous or omnivorous reptiles. If your snake only goes for fish, it's easy to get them to eat worms and pinkies. Heck, one of my concinnus tried and tried to eat a plastic dish today just because it smelled like fish.

Try all day to bite a wall in your house. It was like that.

[bkhuff1s]

I do feed them pinky's, and that's exactly how I do it. :)