my NW-ern wont eat

[scott n]

in regards to my wild caught northwestern;

he's been fine and eating well until late Januaryish(?) when he outta no-were started not eating and one eye was cloudy. i tried to feed him another slug Tuesday and he struck at it for the first time since this started but he missed. like he couldn't quite see it.

i tried again yesterday and he bit on to it but then let go almost like either he didn't want to eat a slug or wasn't interested in eating.

when i first saw the cloudy eye i thought he was going to shed but i noticed Tuesday its cleared up. there are some imperfections on his side that i can't quite describe. the whole time he has been lethargic and reclusive. any thoughts? i'm considering letting him go if there is nothing i can do.

[guidofatherof5]

My first concern is the 1 eye going cloudy. With 1 it maybe some kind of infection.
Has he shed since being caught? What all have you been feeding? Any chance for a photo of these imperfections? How much tongue flicking is he doing?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to put some info. together.

[infernalis]

Sounds like it's going into shed. Usually both eyes go cloudy.....

Most snakes go off feed during the shed cycle.

[scott n]

he was caught back in sept. so no shedding yet. will try to get photos but moms camera takes them too big and snake has been pretty reclusive since this started.

he eats slugs and so far nothing else. another member from norcal informed me about this when i fist got him.

he flicks his tongue some when attempting to feed him but usually doesn't otherwise. about half as much as norm i'd say.

[guidofatherof5]

Have you tried to feed something other than slugs?

[scott n]

worms, dried meal worms, and guppies that i can remember the member i mentioned earlier said that NW-erns eat only slugs. and so far thats held true. on closer inspection the deformities on his skin appear to just be wrinkles where he's bending.

can you recommend anything? its starting to make me nuts-o that he wont eat.

since i work night-shift (10pm-630am) and he lives in my room might the abnormal waking/lighting times screw with his wee snake brain? i've been trying to keep my curtain open and his uvb light on more often

[Stefan-A]

Forget about the meal worms. Earthworms and slugs.

The abnormal daily rhythm could in principle be a contributing factor.

[guidofatherof5]

What you described with the wrinkles might be a bad shed occuring. Here's a link that might help. http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5014&highlight=cheap+shed.
A bad shed will cause them not to eat and can be deadly if not solved.
Your snake has a more varied diet than just slugs and it doesn't include any insects. Here's a link to the forum care sheet.http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Northwestern_Garter_Snake
Please keep us informed on your progress.

[ssssnakeluvr]

worms, dried meal worms, and guppies that i can remember the member i mentioned earlier said that NW-erns eat only slugs.
ordinoides specialize in eating worms....they will eat slugs and fish. I have had them eat all. working on getting my melanistic to take scented pinkies, but he is smart....picks all the worms chunks out and leaves the pinkies...

[scott n]

tried the shed box idea and the only effect was a scared and damp snake :(

now what?

[ConcinusMan]

I have several northwesterns and have kept the species over many years since 1978. I don't recall ever seeing wrinkles when they bend. I only see that in snakes that don't normally have wrinkles, when they are dehydrated and/or malnourished.

I have also seen infections cause one cloudy eye but it doesn't usually just clear up on it's own.

I have never got a NW to eat slugs. Well, there was one time and it was a disaster. Poor thing couldn't close it's mouth properly for a week.

Mine always readily take night crawlers or earthworms. They will also take pacific chorus frogs or parts/larvae and sometimes fish. I have kept them successfully for years on nothing but night crawlers with a dusting of calcium/vitamin supplement every few feedings. They have to be fed often though since those foods are mostly water.

An abnormal daily cycle is not recommended. Garters are very sensitive to light cycles, not just temperature. A regular day/night cycle timing and length appropriate for the snakes latitude and uninterrupted darkness and cooling at night are very important.

If the snake needed to shed some time ago and for some reason didn't, or went badly, the old skin can become fused to the new and cause wrinkles. Once it's been that way for a while, placing him in a shed box for a few hours isn't going to do anything.

I also know nothing about any housing, lighting, heat, etc. that the snake receives. Please describe.

Northwesterns are almost as common and numerous as the worms they eat and it's easy to find plenty of healthy ones. I wouldn't bother keeping it if it's having problems.

[Stefan-A]

Northwesterns are almost as common and numerous as the worms they eat and it's easy to find plenty of healthy ones. I wouldn't bother keeping it if it's having problems.
As soon as you remove it from the wild, it's your responsibility until the day it dies or you hand it over to somebody else. If it's having problems, you're doing it no favours by releasing it.

[ConcinusMan]

That sounds like a good policy, but I would have to say it depends on what the problem is. I know that some trouble feeders and other weakened snakes that failed to adapt to captivity were found later where I released them and they were much better. I would definitely have no issues with releasing a healthy garter after a period of time in captivity, to the same place where I found it. That's one of the reasons I avoided acquiring non-native snakes for many years.

Also, I never said I would release it. ;) We don't really know what's going on with this snake. Could definitely be a bad idea to release it.

[scott n]

Mine always readily take night crawlers or earthworms. They will also take pacific chorus frogs or parts/larvae and sometimes fish. I have kept them successfully for years on nothing but night crawlers with a dusting of calcium/vitamin supplement every few feedings. They have to be fed often though since those foods are mostly water.

An abnormal daily cycle is not recommended. Garters are very sensitive to light cycles, not just temperature. A regular day/night cycle timing and length appropriate for the snakes latitude and uninterrupted darkness and cooling at night are very important.



i think my problem lies with my sleep schedule and his need for normal light. back when this started i thought i would cut back a bit on his "repti glo 2.0" uvb lamp cuz was running out of slugs and not able to find them in the winter. then as the month progressed and i got nearly overwhelmed with trying to study and get enough sleep while dealing with some heady issues with parts of my life i think i managed to totally forget about the poor guy. i've been making a strong effort to keep the shade open and his light on more during the day/evening and he's been more active and is getting back to crawling through his fake plants.

once has a garter back when i was single digits age that ate nothing but the fattest worms we could dig up or get from the bait shop. this one so far has rejected any and all worms offered up though.

[ConcinusMan]

What are you using for heat and what's the daytime/nightime temperatures like?

[scott n]

just the ambient room temp. i'd say extremes are 60-74 at the most

[ConcinusMan]

Not good enough. That won't do at all.

Garters are sun loving diurnal reptiles and garters are also found farthest north than any other snake. Your northwestern really needs the seasonal changes and mediocre conditions don't cut it. They will get depressed, confused, stop eating, then they will waste away and die.

How does he look? is he really skinny? How long has it been since he has eaten anything? Is his skin loose and wrinkled?

Room temperatures since what, last fall? Not good.

I would say if he's not too far gone, you really need to give the snake some exposure to full spectrum lighting. A UVB 2.0 bulb certainly can't hurt. Think bright, natural daylight but with places to hide from the light. A compact florescent UV bulb from a pet store will do for now. Also, it's important to provide just a spot on one end of the enclosure, a basking area about 80-85 degrees. A small basking light or ceramic heat emitter so the snake can warm himself under it but have a choice to go somewhere cooler about 70 degrees.

Seriously, they are very easy to care for once you have a bit of information. If I kept you indoors at those temperatures and you never saw the light of day or warmed yourself in the spring/summer sun wouldn't you get depressed and not want to eat? Think about it.

For the snake, it's been an easy winter. Now spring has sprung. He knows it's about that time. Instead of basking in the sun and getting laid, he's stuck in a closet. Basically, he's in jail. That would be enough for me to lose my appetite.

[scott n]

ok. thanks i'll pick up a heat rock or something similar tonight or tomorrow.

[Stefan-A]

Garters are sun loving diurnal reptiles and garters are also found farthest north than any other snake.
Nitpicking here, but that award probably goes to the European adder. Second place might go to Natrix natrix.

[guidofatherof5]

ok. thanks i'll pick up a heat rock or something similar tonight or tomorrow.

Unless technology has changed on the heat rocks, I would warn against one. I know of too many animals that were burned by them.
I have been using under tank heater and have had no trouble with them at all.
Not only are they more safe but you don't have to worry about the cord causing a security problem. A heat rock cord out the top of an enclosure is a ladder to the top lid. Snakes will spend hours looking for security weaknesses. If they can't get to the top they can't find anything. Also, many times snakes are injured when they force themselves between the lid and enclosure or they get injured when it's opened up.

[ConcinusMan]

Nitpicking here, but that award probably goes to the European adder. Second place might go to Natrix natrix.

I stand corrected. I meant for North America.

Don't use heat rocks. If you have a way to use a basking bulb safely where the snakes can't get burned, preferably one with UV output, use that. Be sure to pick an appropriate wattage and don't overheat your snake! 80-85 for a few hours a day is plenty. Full spectrum florescent can also do wonders for depression and loss of appetite.

If worse comes to worse, go ahead and use a heat rock. Bottom line is your snake needs heat and natural spectrum lighting. Turn off the heat and light for 10 hours of uninterrupted darkness at night. Use a regular schedule. This can help tremendously.

[scott n]

thanks for the help. i tried but to no avail and was probably to late in starting so. he died on easter weekend. :(

[guidofatherof5]

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear that.

[Odie]

Dang man :(

[scott n]

thanks. i'm toying around with the idea of getting another but think i might wait till after my emt-i class is done of i get a better job in the day time.

[gregmonsta]

Sorry to hear that.